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Old 12-20-2019, 09:24 PM   #61
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Name: Gene
Trailer: 1987 Scamp 19
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Looks good Doug! I think your battery longevity will be much better with that second battery. .6C is a lot even for a LIFEPO4. Have you ever figured out what your Truck Fridge averages for current draw per day?
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Old 12-22-2019, 08:17 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by CarlD View Post
Doug, I have a question regarding the 30A fuse in line with the solar panels. I also have a fuse in this location, but I installed it blindly because the manufacture recommended it. I may be missing something here, but what scenario will cause this fuse to blow? The solar panels have a current limit that, I assume, is less than fuse value, so there is no scenario there that could blow the fuse. Is there some kind of back feed mechanism in the MPPT charger that could feed battery current to the panels? Do you have any insight?


Your right that if the short circuit current of the panel is less than the fuse value...what’s the point? Two points: fuses are to protect the wire and the amp rating is chosen accordingly, and the manufacture recommended it because UL does, and it’s still a bit of a grey area.
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Old 12-22-2019, 11:42 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by dleverton View Post
Your right that if the short circuit current of the panel is less than the fuse value...what’s the point? Two points: fuses are to protect the wire and the amp rating is chosen accordingly, and the manufacture recommended it because UL does, and it’s still a bit of a grey area.
fuses are there to prevent fires. they do this by keeping the wiring from burning up. they can protect a power supply, but they are not there to protect the load.
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Old 12-23-2019, 07:45 PM   #64
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Have you ever figured out what your Truck Fridge averages for current draw per day?
I don't have a good number for the Truck Fridge draw. Obviously it is easy to measure while it is running. But how often it runs varies by ambient temperature outside and setting inside. Plus, the upper door hinge mount broke and the fridge door was slowly falling apart without us noticing it. It caused some abnormally high draws until we figured out that the door wasn't closing all the way (condensation at the door seal was the tipoff). After I get that fixed I may be able to get a good number at various fridge settings and outside temperatures, or maybe not. I really would like to not worry about it so that was another reason to get a second battery: I don't have to worry so much about the fridge power budget.
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Old 12-23-2019, 08:30 PM   #65
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Thanks Doug,

I will eventually figure it out my self. I have my four 60 AH LIFEPO4 cells and my SBMS 120 battery management system. I just need to get it installed and figure out what my actual usage before I buy my full size cells.
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Old 06-27-2021, 07:10 PM   #66
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Gene, I have been paying more attention to the TruckFridge draw. I have a 3 amp charger that I can just leave on all the time if I want to. When I do, it basically keeps up with the fridge and minor light usage. It won't keep up if I am using fans or the water pump a lot.
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Old 06-28-2021, 10:25 AM   #67
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Thanks for the update Doug! I am still without a fridge but I did get my battery installed.
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Old 06-28-2021, 12:40 PM   #68
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Thanks for all the good reading info!! Am planning on installing a single Battle Born LiFePO4 in my Scamp 19. Would love to do 2 of them, but... The extent or our boondocking is occasional overnight parking at Walmart type stops on the way to Florida. I prefer someplace cheap where I can plug in. My biggest concern is the cold weather we can get in the winter here in Western NYS around the time we would leave to go south. I remember one winter when it was something like -20F when we left home. Think I prefer to relocate the battery to the inside of the trailer for some heat, maybe under the steps to the bedroom instead of on the outside front of the trailer. Was also planning on using a 12 volt to 12 volt charger, but the idea of a converter is intriguing.
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Old 06-28-2021, 02:28 PM   #69
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My biggest concern is the cold weather we can get in the winter here in Western NYS around the time we would leave to go south. I remember one winter when it was something like -20F when we left home. Think I prefer to relocate the battery to the inside of the trailer for some heat, maybe under the steps to the bedroom instead of on the outside front of the trailer. Was also planning on using a 12 volt to 12 volt charger, but the idea of a converter is intriguing.
In the Snoozy, the stock battery is inside and that is where I put the LiFePO4 batteries. In cold weather, I remove the doors to the battery area so they stay warmer. I take them into the garage for storage in the winter. I think that if I had -20F that I would use a space heater in the trailer while packing and install the battery before hitting the road to FL. Sounds like your idea to move the battery inside is sound. Also, several companies, including Battle Born, now make self-heating batteries.

The Victron DC/DC converter is cheap; I really like mine.
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Old 06-28-2021, 08:23 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by parmm View Post
Thanks for all the good reading info!! Am planning on installing a single Battle Born LiFePO4 in my Scamp 19. Would love to do 2 of them, but... The extent or our boondocking is occasional overnight parking at Walmart type stops on the way to Florida. I prefer someplace cheap where I can plug in. My biggest concern is the cold weather we can get in the winter here in Western NYS around the time we would leave to go south. I remember one winter when it was something like -20F when we left home. Think I prefer to relocate the battery to the inside of the trailer for some heat, maybe under the steps to the bedroom instead of on the outside front of the trailer. Was also planning on using a 12 volt to 12 volt charger, but the idea of a converter is intriguing.
Depends what you are running, but for a single night dry camping, I have found my Group 29 Lead Acid battery in my Escape 19 more than adequate, and its cheap, and uses the original power center. To me, the BB battery starts making sense on longer stays of dry camping, say some National Parks. Even then, so far, my portable solar has worked to keep my battery well charged for week long NP stays.
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Old 06-29-2021, 09:26 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by thrifty bill View Post
Depends what you are running, but for a single night dry camping, I have found my Group 29 Lead Acid battery in my Escape 19 more than adequate, and its cheap, and uses the original power center. To me, the BB battery starts making sense on longer stays of dry camping, say some National Parks. Even then, so far, my portable solar has worked to keep my battery well charged for week long NP stays.
Ah yes - A Dreamstation CPAP with heated humidity. After many years of lead acid and AGM, the LiFePO4 batteries make all kinds of sense except for the With charging capabilities at temperatures below -4°F!
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:54 PM   #72
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Yes, if I was speccing a new trailer, I would go lithium for sure! I am not a big fan of lead acid batteries. But they do work OK for many. Once you add CPAP to your requirements, you have to add everything up to see how the load works out. Everything I have read adding heated humidification significantly increases electric use.
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Old 08-03-2021, 06:23 PM   #73
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Update on conversion performance:

We just finished a month on the road and never had to worry much about battery status. One thing that works well is the 3 amp charger, which we run whenever plugged into shore power. That, on average, cancels out the TruckFridge draw and pretty much leaves the batteries at whatever charge they were at. And whenever driving, the DC/DC converter charges up the trailer batteries to full capacity. So, basically, there wasn't a capacity issue.

In one instance we parked the trailer and stayed at a cabin on the other side of a lake. We wanted to make sure that the batteries had enough capacity to run the fridge for three days in hot weathrer. The parking place was not secure so at first we didn't feel comfortable leaving a solar panel out to recharge the batteries. We have a separate panel and battery in the tow vehicle to run an ARB fridge when we are camping without the Snoozy. So we used a jumper from that battery to the 7-pin connector on the Snoozy, which feeds the trailer batteries through the DC/DC converter. That worked great and kept the Snoozy batteries topped off for three days while still running the fridge.

Bottom line, everything works fine and as designed.
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Old 10-21-2021, 10:49 AM   #74
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Name: Karl-Ludwig
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2016 Lil Snoozy For Sale: 125ah Life Blue battery w. Solar

Our 2016 Illinois based Lil Snoozy (currenty listed for sale on this forum) was upgraded to a 125ah Life Blue lithium ion Phosphate system in 2019 before taking the trailer to Alaska and back to the lower 48 (mid June - mid July), followed by hosting at a Wyoming campground without hook ups. Even though our 2019 system did not include DC to DC charging from the tow vehicle, we never had to worry about our 12 V truck fridge keeping food fresh.
A Bluetooth ap allowed monitoring our battery during the Alaska trip that consisted of dry camping overnights as well as 15amp electric service. No need for a generator. Instead when dry camping a 100W portable solar panel helped the battery maintain a sufficient 80% state of charge, which of course would have been dangerously low for a lead acid battery.
In 2020 we added a Victron DC to DC converter that allowed charging from the tow vehicle, which proved helpful when travelling during hot and sunny days through New Mexico.
A three way toggle switch allows selecting charging from any 110V source or a DC source (either from solar panel via Victron charge controller, or 7 pin tow vehicle connection via Victron DC to DC controller.
Best battery system we ever had. Unfortunately medical issues have us leave towing behind.
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Old 12-09-2021, 10:54 PM   #75
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Trailer: 2014 Scamp 16, 2011 RAV4 V6
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Doug,

What 3 amp charger do you use?

I’m installing a system very similar to yours in our Scamp 16. I’m putting everything, including the battery, in the driver side compartment under the dinette bench. I previously installed an exterior access hatch to that compartment, so I’ll have easy access to the shut-off switch and other components. Also, because I have a generator and stand on the tongue, my tongue weight was close to the TV rated capacity and removing the Group 27 lead-acid battery will fix that potential problem.

I was not very good at lead-acid battery maintenance so I’m looking forward to having a LiFePO4 system.

Thanks for all the information you have provided and for the photo and wiring diagram.

Doug
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Old 12-09-2021, 11:08 PM   #76
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a 3 amp charger isn't much more than a 'battery tender'. it would take /forever/ to charge a substantial battery, be it lead acid or lifepo4, at 3 amps. I would get a lithium rated DC converter, such as a PD4645Li, and use that as your main power center, then just plug your trailer in to charge the battery, done! Once a LFP is fully charged, the current drops to zero.
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Old 12-10-2021, 01:28 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
a 3 amp charger isn't much more than a 'battery tender'. it would take /forever/ to charge a substantial battery, be it lead acid or lifepo4, at 3 amps. I would get a lithium rated DC converter, such as a PD4645Li, and use that as your main power center, then just plug your trailer in to charge the battery, done! Once a LFP is fully charged, the current drops to zero.
Yep, John is right on. No way would a three amp charger do it!! I'm running two 100 Ah heated 12 V LiFePO4 Battleborn batteries. To charge them while running down the highway I am using a Orion-TR Smart 12/12V-30A Isolated Charger powered by the tow vehicle's battery. The charger is inside the trailer. Am running the power from the engine compartment to the trailer thru a 6 gauge wire. The converter charger is a Progressive Dynamics 45Amp LiFePO4 Converter Charger which replaced the original converter charger.
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Old 12-10-2021, 02:03 AM   #78
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unless you are adding a lot of electrics to a scamp16, I would think a single 100AH LFP and a 35A converter would be plenty, and if you're electrical usage is anything like mine, if you leave a 100W solar suitcase out where it will be sunny for a few hours in the morning, it will be fully recharged by noon, when you're off grid. I got by just fine with a lead acid group27 in my Casita 16, and the limiting factor on how long I could boondock was the size of my grey holding tank. even if you're going to run a DC 'truckfridge' sized to a 16, the 100AH LFP should be fine, and a 6-8 amp solar panel plus a 35A converter should run everything you need, AND fully charge a nearly dead LFP in 3-4 hours when plugged in.
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Old 12-10-2021, 07:59 AM   #79
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Pat and John, I think that you both misinterpreted Doug's post, but I may be wrong. Hopefully Doug will chime in and set us straight. Doug said that he installed a system very similar to mine. Mine has both a 60 amp charger and a 3 amp charger (aside from the DC/DC converter for charging while driving and the solar charge controller). The 60 amp Progressive Dynamics charger is used as you both described, to charge the batteries when they get low or in preparation for boondocking. The 3 amp charger is used while on shore power to keep the batteries at around 70 to 80 percent state of charge. I just leave the 3 amp charger on and it more or less covers the load of the Truck Fridge and lights. I occasionally switch it off if the SOC is rising over 80% and switch on the PD charger if SOC falls below 70%. This is all done with a 120V ON-OFF-ON toggle switch. If I were to use the 60 amp PD charger alone , it would very quickly charge the batteries to 100% and maintain them there. Pretty much everything I have read on the subject says that it is better to maintain the batteries at 70-80% instead of 100% SOC. It won't make a difference that I can measure because I can't compare it to anything, but it makes me content that I tried to follow the guidance of folks who know more about LiFePO4 batteries than I do.

As an aside, the DC/DC converter sometimes tops the batteries off at 100% while driving before we get to the next stop. That is great if we are boondocking, not great if we are on shore power. I intend to install a switch so that I can turn off the DC/DC converter when driving to keep SOC at ~75% if we plan on shore power.

Now, to answer Doug's question, I used whatever Amazon had at the time. I recently looked and didn't find the one I installed. I think it doesn't matter much what brand you buy as long as it charges lithium batteries.

Cheers!
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:31 AM   #80
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Thanks John, Pat, and Doug,

I purchased a PD9130LV converter charger from Battle Born along with my battery. I’m thinking about using a 3amp charger in the manner described by Doug. I thought about upgrading to a 60amp converter charger but Derrick at Battle Born talked me out of it. Given my age, it is doubtful that I’ll have the new system for the full 10 years that the battery is warranted for, so maybe I shouldn’t worry too much about charging it to 100%.

I sort of rushed into installing a Lithium battery system because (1) I’d killed my almost new Group 27 battery; (2) I read this thread and others comparing Lithium to lead-acid; and (3) my wife has been in Reno this week helping a friend, which enabled us to pick up the parts at Battle Born. They gave us a discount for not having to ship them. Anyway, I realize that the Lithium system is probably overkill for our small trailer but l really like the advantages of Lithium, I’m a bit of a gadget guy, and I need a new project. I’ll also keep the older PD 30amp converter charger in case I part with the trailer and want to keep the new system for use elsewhere. Should be easy to convert back to lead-acid.

Thanks again
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