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Old 07-18-2003, 02:20 PM   #15
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Before you put out the bucks for one of those nifty AGM batteries, like Optima, you'd better check for compatibility with your current charging system -- they do NOT have the same charging characteristics as a flooded lead-acid battery. It is possible to destroy an AGM by charging incorrectly, which means that the extra bucks for the extended life are wasted.

Do the homework or suffer the consequences...

Pete in the RatHaus
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Old 07-18-2003, 03:25 PM   #16
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Power

:wave Mike and Karen
You also might consider a used ,small Honda generator(suitcase style) maybe in the bargin finder. There in the paper all the time.I've seen lots of them for around $ 500.00 or less.Around 650 watts. If you decide to go that route buy a Honda so you can live with the noise...very quiet and reliable ! Just a thought. Happy camping...:cool
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Old 07-18-2003, 05:14 PM   #17
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To all those considering buying cheap inverters, keep in mind that switching power supplies (computers and most laptops) are not the only thing that can be harmed by a square wave (cheap inverter)... Inductive loads also need sine-wave output so something like your Drill, blender, mixer, vibrator (plug-in versions) will not work well, if at all, on a cheap inverter and in fact can be damaged. They will run really slow and heat up very quickly.

Personally, I would never waste the money on a cheap inverter. If all I wanted to do was run a light bulb, I'd use my 12v system.
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Old 07-18-2003, 06:48 PM   #18
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12volt/lighting/etc

I use a gel cell battery, which gets charged by my van as I drive, My converter does not have a charger section.
I installed these , and they give lots of light at nightime, with a draw of only 70 milliamps each. We also like to use a candle lantern for a simple nightlight.
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Old 07-18-2003, 08:23 PM   #19
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ok all you "pure sine wave"

Why does my old amp thunderbiird 1 gig dvd burner soundblaster 5.1 200 gig external had dual 20 gig internal hard drives . survive running off a 1500 watt inverter for the last 3 years ? Has any of you tryed ? or just read? Sorry if i offend anyone !!:cheers
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Old 07-18-2003, 08:26 PM   #20
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You didn't offend me.I don't understand a number you said.:jester :jester
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Old 07-19-2003, 06:41 PM   #21
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To Mike & Karen
Please check your PM.
Cheers:wave
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Old 07-19-2003, 08:21 PM   #22
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"Why does my old amp thunderbiird 1 gig dvd burner soundblaster 5.1 200 gig external had dual 20 gig internal hard drives . survive running off a 1500 watt inverter for the last 3 years ?"

What language is this, exactly?:conf
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Old 07-20-2003, 02:05 AM   #23
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You have a 1000 MHZ (1.0 gig) AMD (not Intel, think Ford and Chevy!) Athlon, with ability to copy DVD's, you have 5.1 surround sound for theatre experience ( 200 bucks of computer speakers is equal to 1500 bucks of stereo speakers), you have 200 gigs of external hard drive strorage (I think you may mean 2 gig), and a 20 gig internal hard drive.

Your PC is 3 years old................. :o
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Old 07-20-2003, 07:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
Orginally posted by Eric C

"Why does my old amp thunderbiird 1 gig dvd burner soundblaster 5.1 200 gig external had dual 20 gig internal hard drives . survive running off a 1500 watt inverter for the last 3 years ?"

What language is this, exactly?:conf
Good question. I think it's from a tribe in Acirema. or maybe Adanac.
Another question would be does Mike and Karen know where their PM is?
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Old 07-20-2003, 08:00 AM   #25
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PM Where?

Morning Jana:wave
I'm not sure, but being that it is a hot clear weekend, they might be out for the weekend. Time will tell. Cheers
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Old 07-20-2003, 12:53 PM   #26
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A "Thunderbird" is a low end AMD brand processor simular to the Intel Celeron CPU. The processor speed is 1GHz

A DVD burner is a drive that can play and record DVDs

Soundblaster 5.1 is a mid range sound card that will provide surround sound.

"200 gig external" should read 200GB external Hard drive. It is a Hard disk drive in a portable housing. In this case it is a large 200GB drive.

Al is telling us he used to have two 20GB Hard disks in the case.

He is also stating that he has powered this computer with a 1500 watt inverter for the last 3 years.

From the spelling I am guessing Al had a glass of wine or two before his post -

Is that pretty much it Al :cheers

Rick is right - this system would not have been available 3 years ago - but that is another story.
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Old 07-21-2003, 06:49 AM   #27
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I'm not a EE, or even play one on the web, but here's a little of what I've read concerning inverters.

Some devices are sensitive to the power they receive. Modified sine waves, also sometimes referred to as modifed square waves can have different peak to peak voltages and different 'areas under the curve'. To which characteristic and why these devices are sensitive I defer to others.

<img src=http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/uploads/3f1bce81e7f05i_sinewaves.gif/>

I suspect that the modified sine wave inverters are getting better because they parse the sine wave into finer rectangles, but I'm guessing here. I also suspect they filter their circuits better to reduce noise.

A second item is that less expensive inverters and generators suffer from a poor 'power factor'. (HUH?) We know that watts are equal to amps times voltage. Volts vary along a sine wave. Current also varies along the same 60 cycles per second sine wave. It turns out that if both sine waves are exactly overlayed, then the watts available is equal to amps time volts. (120 volts times 10 amps yields 1200 watts) But in poorer designed inverters/generators the voltage lags (or leads) the current. Thus, when the amps are at their peak the voltage is something less (120 volts times 7 amps yields 840 watts). Similarly, when amps are at their peak, the volts are lower (84 volts times 10 amps yields 840 watts). The math geeks tell me that the cosine of the phase angle difference is the power factor. A power factor of 0.7 is typical. I'm told that better sine waves usually, but don't always, have higher power factors.

The power factor loss is part of the reason why RV magazines recommend much larger generators than a simple summing of wattages would suggest and also why the Honda 2000 (sine wave) will operate our A/C's while so close to the generator capacity.

Oh man, even MY eyes rolled back on that explanation. :r What am I, a glutton for punishment?
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Old 07-21-2003, 09:12 AM   #28
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That's pretty good. It's further complicated by the fact that even the expensive sine-wave inverters often have little notches or ticks on the trailing edge of the peak or valley. These are readily apparent when you look at the output with a scope; but those minor imperfections aren't critical on the equipment we'll be using in our environments... So the more money you pay, the more perfect the sine wave. I have two 1000watt UPSes by different manufacturers. They both advertise sine-wave output. The one has unclean output with a fairly significant notch on the wave, and it weighs about 100 pounds with batteries. The other has almost perfect output with a barely visible notch, and it weighs 260 pounds with batteries. Same wattage, same capacity, but slightly cleaner output, and it costs 160 pounds. Open it up and there's a transformer in there the size of a goose.

Generators don't have this problem because they're motor driven. Of course the challenge with a generator is to regulate the RPM's so that you get as close to 60hz output as possible. This is difficult because, as we know when our cars are idling and the air-conditioning compressor turns on, the RPM's drop. The same happens with a generator when you turn on some heavy draw device, it puts a strain on the motor, the RPM's drop, and now your 60hz is down to 50 or 45 or 30 until the motor can get more gas fed into it.

Ok. I'm probably boring everyone now. I'm not an engineer, but I did sleep in a holiday-inn express last night.
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