phantom battery draw question

[MPohio]

I have a centurion cs1200 c power center. I took the negative cable off and measured a .13 amp draw. I narrowed it down to the power cable off the battery to the power center by taking out all fuses and breakers. It goes to zero when I remove the battery "in" positive fuse(I think it is the reverse connection protection fuse).

I know this doesn't sound like a lot but it does drop my battery over a few days. It isn't my LP/smoke/CO detector as they are not hooked up. My battery is brand new with a MFG date of 2-14(29 deep cycle autocraft). I fully charged it and it holds 12.7v unhooked for 2 days. After 2 days hooked up to my camper, it was down to 12.48.

Questions:
1.) Does the power center always draw some power?
2.) I found a good deal on a power dynamics PD4045 and was wondering if this would eliminate the phantom draw

lastly, I have used PD charge wizard in the past on my last two rialtas. I won't be using shore power just running it off my alternator through my 7pin(already hooked up).
3.) Will The PD4045's 4 stage charge wizard work on my TV's charging my camper battery, or is it just when hooked to shore(I don't want to cook my battery on a 10 to 12 hour trip)?

Thanks, Mark>

[Bob Miller]

Some WAG's:

1. The existing power center should not draw any power when OFF. It sounds like you might have a diode reverse current leakage problem. How old is the unit?

2. The PD-4045 is an excellent replacement, I have installed a number of them without problems as have several on this site. None of the ones I have installed ever had any phantom draw.

3. The Smart Charger function only functions when line power is connected, the TV charge line is (electrically) a direct connection to the battery

4. The TV's voltage regulator will shut down the charge rate (voltage) as the TV and Trailers battery are seen as one big battery. You don't worry about the TV's battery getting overcharged, don't be concerned about the trailers battery.

[MPohio]

Thanks Bob.

My unit is probably from 1999. The PD 4045 is probably way too much for my small popup TC. I only have 3 lights, propance furnace and two outlets. I don't ever use the fridge and I am probably going to remove it once I figure out where to cap off the propane. I have always used the coleman 5 day cooler and I still have blocks of ice left after 1.5 weeks.

Queston:
Could it be one of the "white" / neg wires are hooked up wrong? I am about to take a picture of all the wiring and disconnect everything(process of elimination).

As for a diode, is that something that could be "re"-reversed? You aren't talking about a fuse are your?

Thanks for all the help!! Mark>

[Raz]

It's hard to tell what goes on in your converter without a schematic which manufacturers do not provide. The surest way to eliminate a phantom load is to disconnect the battery. I use an inline fuse near the positive terminal. If you don't camp where there is shore power then a converter has no purpose other than ballast. Raz

[Bob Miller]

I agree, in these small trailers. I usually just remove the converter section and install a separate charger to keep the battery up. In the one I just sold, I repurposed (See Canada!) a burned up "American" power chassis out of a Scamp to use the a/c & dc dist/fuse section, tossed the converter card and added a charger, an inverter & lots of wire, along with a Group 24 battery.

As Raz mentioned, it's difficult to trouble shoot without a schematic. After 15 years many of these units have "timed out" as the expected service life of the trailer is about that same value.

[MPohio]

Yep, I figured it approaching the end of its useful life. I do want to keep the functions of charging my battery as I drive and the running lights. Since everything else works fine on this, I might just put a battery disconnect on the Neg wire and not worry about it for now.

[Spanke]

Inexpensive and easy way to disconnect your battery.



Spanke

[MPohio]

Thanks everyone for the advice. The main reason for me to consider getting the PD 4500 is for the off season and while at home. It is much easier to plug the camper into the garage outlet than lugging the battery out everytime. I have been toying with the idea of slapping on a 125w solar panel and if I do go solor I would want some type of converter/power center in it. Since I just got it a few weeks ago, I think I am just going to slap a battery disconnect on her and deal with it until I figure out what I am going to use it for.

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by MPohio

The PD 4045 is probably way too much for my small popup TC. I only have 3 lights, propance furnace and two outlets.

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

I agree, in these small trailers. I usually just remove the converter section and install a separate charger to keep the battery up.

Thanks Bob, I've been thinking along the lines of Mark ... way too much for what I need. Any suggestions on some chargers to look at?

Ideally I could put one in behind the fridge. Cooling fans and noise would then be vented to the outside.

[MPohio]

I went ahead and snagged a 4500 from ebay for $120. I got it today but haven't had a chance to put it in. It is new but not in the original box. It looks pretty straight foward, but I will have to find some install instruction on the net. Worst case scenerio, I will get recoup my money if I ever sell the unit.

Side Note: on my last two 1997 Rialtas, I always upgraded the charging uinits. I figured technology had to have vastly improved over the last 17 years I Used Progressive Dynamics (PD9245CV) 45 Amp Power Converter with Charge Wizard on both and was extremely happy

[MPohio]

UPdate: Installed my new PD4045 Mighty Mini" The Compact All-In-One System... AC/DC Distribution Panel and Inteli-Power Converter
with built-in Charge Wizard

No more phantom drain. Everything works great and the 4 stage charging system is as they claim( I checked it with my volt meter).
Mighty Mini All-In-One System AC/DC Power Distribution Panel and Inteli-Power Converter

Inteli-Power 4000 Mighty Mini models can recharge the battery to 90% in 3-6 hours
using our patented Charge Wizard technology:

• BOOST Mode 14.4 Volts - Rapidly brings RV battery up to 90% of full charge.
• NORMAL Mode 13.6 Volts - Safely completes the charge.
• STORAGE Mode 13.2 Volts - Maintains charge with minimal gassing or water loss.
• EQUALIZATION Mode 14.4 Volts - Every 21 hours for a period of 15 minutes prevents battery stratification
  & sulfation - the leading cause of battery failure.

[Tote-n-Tarry No.2]

Originally Posted by MPohio

UPdate: Installed my new PD4045 Mighty Mini" The Compact All-In-One System... AC/DC Distribution Panel and Inteli-Power Converter
with built-in Charge Wizard

No more phantom drain. Everything works great and the 4 stage charging system is as they claim( I checked it with my volt meter).
Mighty Mini All-In-One System AC/DC Power Distribution Panel and Inteli-Power Converter

Inteli-Power 4000 Mighty Mini models can recharge the battery to 90% in 3-6 hours
using our patented Charge Wizard technology:

• BOOST Mode 14.4 Volts - Rapidly brings RV battery up to 90% of full charge.
• NORMAL Mode 13.6 Volts - Safely completes the charge.
• STORAGE Mode 13.2 Volts - Maintains charge with minimal gassing or water loss.
• EQUALIZATION Mode 14.4 Volts - Every 21 hours for a period of 15 minutes prevents battery stratification
  & sulfation - the leading cause of battery failure.

Can I ask you a question please? How is the hot 120 bar powered on the PD4045? THANK YOU VERY MUCH
I have a picture

[MPohio]

go with what steve says below

[steve dunham]

The incoming line (HOT) conductor in your service entrance cord should not be connected directly to the line ( Hot ) buss that feeds your branch circuit breakers You need to install a main breaker as per the PD 4045 UL listing . The proper wiring procedure is shown in the PD wiring diagram. Hook the incoming line to the load terminal of the main breaker ,this will backfeed the line ( Hot) buss .( The main breaker is not furnished by PD) The sizing of the main breaker ( Single Pole) is based on the ampacity of the service entrance cord. #14 AWG = 15 amps -- #12 AWG = 20 Amps--#10 AWG = 30 Amps . The grounded (neutral) and the equipment grounding conductors do not require over current protection.
.
.

[MPohio]

GO with Steve, I was going off memory from a year ago. I will edit out my info as not to mislead anybody. Thanks Steve!!

[Raz]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

The incoming line (HOT) conductor in your service entrance cord should not be connected directly to the line ( Hot ) buss that feeds your branch circuit breakers You need to install a main breaker as per the PD 4045 UL listing . The proper wiring procedure is shown in the PD wiring diagram. Hook the incoming line to the load terminal of the main breaker ,this will backfeed the line ( Hot) buss .( The main breaker is not furnished by PD) The sizing of the main breaker ( Single Pole) is based on the ampacity of the service entrance cord. #14 AWG = 15 amps -- #12 AWG = 20 Amps--#10 AWG = 30 Amps . The grounded (neutral) and the equipment grounding conductors do not require over current protection.
.
.

Analogous to the main breaker in a household service entrance. Unfortunately the Progressive Dynamics manual is a little brief. I would suggest if you don't follow exactly what Steve is talking about, find someone who does. Raz

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by P. Raz

Analogous to the main breaker in a household service entrance. Unfortunately the Progressive Dynamics manual is a little brief. I would suggest if you don't follow exactly what Steve is talking about, find someone who does. Raz

Thanks Raz ; I know I got it right ,when I get your blessing. After teaching electrical code for 30 years ,I am in the habit of using code speak and forget that many are not fluent in that language. I"ll work on that over the summer !!

[Raz]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

,I am in the habit of using code speak and forget that many are not fluent in that language. I"ll work on that over the summer !!

Frankly, I don't think you should work on anything. If folks don't follow you they need to seek help. While I know the fundamentals, you know the practice. There is a reason things are done a certain way. You know far more than I do. I'm the student here. Keep up the good work. Raz

[Bob Miller]

Apparently the confusion here is that there is an 4-5 terminal buss bar on the right side of the box labeled something like "120VAC HOT". I asked PD about this buss and was told that it was required for Canadian (CSA?) approval, that the incoming hot lead had to go there first, before going to the bottom feed on the main breaker. At least that's what they told me. It's not used in U.S. installations, but being there and being labeled is a bit confusing.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Apparently the confusion here is that there is an 4-5 terminal buss bar on the right side of the box labeled something like "120VAC HOT". I asked PD about this buss and was told that it was required for Canadian (CSA?) approval, that the incoming hot lead had to go there first, before going to the bottom feed on the main breaker. At least that's what they told me. It's not used in U.S. installations, but being there and being labeled is a bit confusing.

The PD 4045 in my Trillium is different. There are only 2 branch breakers with the converter hot using one. There are two bus bars, ground and neutral. On this version they have added a third branch breaker, moved the neutral bus bar and added a hot bus bar. The converter hot apparently connects there. There is no indication that I can see in the online installation manual as to how the converter hot is protected. Either PD connects it to a breaker internally or a jumper is required. Wiring it as they suggested ("that the incoming hot lead had to go there first, before going to the bottom feed on the main breaker") would leave it unprotected. Raz