Possible Converter Problem? Help Please!!! - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 07-09-2013, 01:18 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by accrete View Post

What i have seen in the past on monitor; before 30amp service battery would be typically in the 12.6 to 12.8 volt range. After plug in i would see 13.6v for ~a day then drop to 13.2 and remain there (this was observed after the two prior 5 day adventures.)
Thom
Thom nothing but a guess on my part but I have always been told that the reading of a battery are not accurate if the battery has not been allowed to rest after charging it up. Have been told that the most accurate battery measurements are after the battery has rested at least 4 hours and even better 24 hours.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:06 PM   #16
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Here is my question;
Is there a reason that the PD4045 would not automatically begin a cycle (just plugged into 30 amp service) at the charging voltage of 13.6v? rather than 13.2v?

Thom
Hi Thom, I suspect the charger "thinks" your battery is fully charged. I have the same charger and had an interesting experience. My battery was at 12.3v. Shortly after plugging in the charger the power was interrupted.. When plugged back in the charger would not go back into what PD calls " boost" mode. Here's what I think happened. The charger software initiates when you plug the charger in and evaluates the condition of the battery, probably by terminal voltage. It then chooses the appropriate subroutine. If it sees a low voltage, say 12.3 v., it goes into what PD calls "boost" mode and you will see about 14.4v across the battery. In my case when the power was interrupted the battery had enough charge to fool the charger, so it never went back into boost mode but rather went to "normal" mode (13.6 v.). The next time I charged the battery it worked as advertised so my charger is fine.

You could try unplugging your charger and run your fan for a while to reduce the battery voltage then try charging just to see what happens. While not necessary it might answer your question. Raz
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:06 PM   #17
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: ) Thanks for the thoughts and replies.

Hi Carol, yes on what you said on readings. Funny thing is in this case i did not plug it in until a week had passed. I would have thought that first thing out of the charger would have been the charge mode at the ~13.6v. The first two trips i plugged it in right after getting home and the TV had been sending its ~14.5v for the 5 hour trips back home.

Hey Raz... Yea i thought of the _think_ part too! So i did unplug it yesterday and ran the fan for some time but might not have been long enough to bring the bank down more than 1 or 2 AH. Tomorrow we will hook up the TV and take both rigs to the car wash and clean them up then plug back in and see what happens.

I'm going to try to contact PD tomorrow and see if they have any words of wisdom.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:23 PM   #18
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I bought mine at Best Converter. Real good service , prices, and they know just about anything about rv/trailer power systems.
I agree with Greg. I replaced the stock converter in my 10212 Escape 19' with an upgraded PowerMax converter from Best Converter because the stock one wasn't fully charging the batteries. The stock one just wasn't designed to take the charge voltage up high enough (14.6 volts) then cycle downward (4-stage) after the boost charging phase. The new one was a drop in...maybe 10 minute job and I'm totally satisfied with it.

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Old 07-11-2013, 05:54 PM   #19
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...Tomorrow we will hook up the TV...
On Wednesday we did plug the Parkiliner into the van and i checked the voltage/amps on the monitor...it read ~14.6v but only ~1amp... i believe this was a lower reading than before. I ran it for just a few minutes and then unplugged from TV. I decided not to plug the PL back into the 30amp service (this was at about 1330). For my notes i took a reading 24 hours after (Thursday@~1400) any _charging_ and the monitor is showing 13v and -0.1ah.

I've decided that i will simply go about our business next week and take notes during our Mt.Rainier adventure and plug in once back home and see what takes place at that point and make any further action as needed.

Thanks again for the replies and insights.
Thom
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:39 PM   #20
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Update after our Mt.Rainier trip on PD4045 converter status:

Plugged Parkliner into our 30amp service after 6 days off grid. XANTREX showed bank down an additional 20AH which is average for our trips so far.

XANTREX showed 13.6v but only 1AH charge rate. I checked the next morning and still at 13.6v but only 0.1AH charge rate. Dosn't seem right. I'll make a call to PD on Monday or Tuesday and hopefully get some ideas on how to proceed.


On a happy note...we sure got some pretty pictures of Mt.Rainier!



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Old 07-21-2013, 12:04 AM   #21
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What is the actual problem? Is the battery not charging up, not staying charged, or what? I might have missed it, but I don't see what problem you're trying to solve.
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:29 AM   #22
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Hi Jared, basically i'm thinking the PD4045 is not putting out enough AH to properly bring a partially depleted (down ~30%) dual AGM optima battery bank back up to 100%.

I just checked the XANTREX monitor and it is showing the PD4045 is now putting out the "Float" voltage of 13.2v and 0.1AH. So my calculations are that the converter put back in ~5AH @13.6v into the 110AH-bank during the first night plugged into service which was down about 30AH total and is now thinking the battery bank is "Charged". Something is amis IMO. And i would have never known really had i not began monitoring the relatively new (March 2013) batteries.

In the past when observing a dedicated smart charger (which is what the PD4045 has) i would see ~10 amps @~14v for several hours and then a step down to the float rate at ~1amp/~13v with daily spikes up to ~15v to de-sulfate.

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Old 07-21-2013, 09:24 AM   #23
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Hi Jared, basically i'm thinking the PD4045 is not putting out enough AH to properly bring a partially depleted (down ~30%) dual AGM optima battery bank back up to 100%. .........
Thom

I agree that something is not right. Either the battery is more charged than you think, or the converter is not charging at an appropriate rate or you have a metering error. You could double check all of these with a multimeter - battery voltage, current input to the battery, etc.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:21 PM   #24
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I agree that something is not right...You could double check all of these with a multimeter - battery voltage, current input to the battery, etc.
Well i've done just that at this point.
Today after the trailer had been unplugged for over 24 hours i checked the two batteries' voltage. They were both showing 12.9 volts (hand held VOM on posts) and the Xantrex was showing 13.0 volts (on common + bus-bar). I checked voltage on PD4045 and it was a measured 13.2 volts two days ago before i unplugged from the 30 amp service. During the 3 months of active use i have never seen a voltage higher than 13.6 volts & 1.3 amps being delivered from the PD4045 to the batteries.

After going over (once again) all manuals (Optima batteries & PD4045) and discussing what i had seen/measured with both optima and progressive dynamics i have come to the conclusion (with their assistance) that the PD4045 is not set up to properly (fully) charge Optima Blue Top batteries. These batteries are looking for a minimum of 13.8 volts during normal charge with a max 10amps, and then dropping to 13.2v and 1amp during "float". The PD4045 is incapable of sending out more than 13.6 volts during normal charge, and sends out 13.2v during float, but at a very low rate ~0.1 amp. This rate is to low to properly maintain Optima Blue Top batteries for maximum life/health according to Optima techs and the Optima BT specs.

SOooooo, i have an Optima 1200 digital charger on order that i will hook up to the common bus which is connected to individual 60amp fuses and then to each D34M battery.

Once hooked up i will report back.

thom

(at this point in the project i have decided to also post this information over at my Parkliner build thread as it is IMO pertinent information for current and future PL owners)
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:33 AM   #25
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I don't know if Casita does this or not, but Scamp has an in-line fuse coming from the battery which, if blown, will yield the symtoms described, Also check the voltage at the battery and check for a broken or corroded connection at the battery.
While you are at it check to be sure that your converter is plugged in or receiving shore power.If not, you could have just run you battery down not knowing that the converter was off line.

Did you look for and find this fuse that Floyd mentioned? If not maybe you should.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:36 AM   #26
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After going over (once again) all manuals (Optima batteries & PD4045) and discussing what i had seen/measured with both optima and progressive dynamics i have come to the conclusion (with their assistance) that the PD4045 is not set up to properly (fully) charge Optima Blue Top batteries. These batteries are looking for a minimum of 13.8 volts during normal charge with a max 10amps, and then dropping to 13.2v and 1amp during "float". The PD4045 is incapable of sending out more than 13.6 volts during normal charge, and sends out 13.2v during float, but at a very low rate ~0.1 amp.
For what it's worth I am also using an AGM battery, a Lifeline. As i mentioned earlier, when the battery is low, say 12.3 volts, my charger (PD 4045) will get to 14.4 volts then drop to 13.6 V. after a while. It floats at 13.2 V. Also, 12.9V. is what my battery would show when fully charged when it was new (charger disconnected). After 7 years it's down to 12.7V. at full charge.

One other thought, 20 AHr is not much on 2 parallel AGM batteries (150 AHr capacity?). What is the battery voltage down to prior to charging? Raz
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:50 AM   #27
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Did you look for and find this fuse that Floyd mentioned? If not maybe you should.
Greetings,

When checking the system in our Parkliner there is no "in line" fuse to/from batteries as sent from the factory. The two PD4045 "Reverse battery blown" fuses are fine and the charger is putting out power to the batteries/system. On fuses between batteries and PL, there are now individual 60amp fuses between each battery and the positive-bus-bar where the converter/charger/meter is...these fuses were installed (& bar) by the recommendation of marine & rv technicians when they were brought up to speed on the stock PL system.

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...(Raz mentioned various voltages at different stages)...
One other thought, 20 AHr is not much on 2 parallel AGM batteries (150 AHr capacity?). What is the battery voltage down to prior to charging? Raz
Thx for the voltage info. The lowest i've seen the battery voltage (our two 55AH Optima D34M = 110AH total) has been 12.5volts. PD4045 showed 13.6v in this case for about 5 hours sending 1 to 1.3 amps then switching to 13.2v at 0.1 AH. Both of these numbers are to low to properly maintain my particular AGM batteries per Optima dealers (they were not suggesting i buy anything from their dealerships, just verifying the needs of the D34M batteries).

Thom

A Post Script note: I called and spoke to another PD tech this morning... his suggestion was to block the fan for ~10 minutes or so and said this should force the unit into "Boost Mode"... so far... 100!! minutes of fan being blocked and unit is still relatively cool (a slight warmth to touch on outside upper rear of case that fan is housed in) and showing unit is putting out the float charge of 13.2v at 0.1AH. He also stated that if charger is dropping from the _normal_ charging stage to _float_ stage (which it is) it appears to be working, but dosn't know why it would not go into Boost Mode when plugged in after dropping the 25% to 30% that bank is after being off grid like we are for our trips.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:24 PM   #28
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Thx for the voltage info. The lowest i've seen the battery voltage (our two 55AH Optima D34M = 110AH total) has been 12.5volts. PD4045 showed 13.6v in this case for about 5 hours sending 1 to 1.3 amps then switching to 13.2v at 0.1 AH. Both of these numbers are to low to properly maintain my particular AGM batteries per Optima dealers (they were not suggesting i buy anything from their dealerships, just verifying the needs of the D34M batteries).

Thom
If your battery was down to 12.5 volts, the charger should go into boost mode. Just to verify, I would disconnect one battery, run your fan, ect. to discharge the connected battery. At 12.5 volts plug in the charger and measure the voltage. If it doesn't reach 14 + volts in 1/2 an hour I would contact PD.

One possibility worth investigating. In a previous thread someone mentioned that these chargers can be set up to charge gel cells. There is nothing in my manual about this but if it is true the boost cycle would be eliminated as gel cells can not tolerate that high a charge voltage. Just a thought. Finally if the PD 4045 will charge my AGM it will charge yours.
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