Running Romex 14/3 with red wire as 12+ - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 12-01-2015, 12:27 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by tractors1 View Post
On-board Energy Management Systems won't allow power to flow to the trailer when using a standalone generator unless a bonding wire is present between the trailer and the generator frame bonding bolt, which establishes a common electrical ground voltage level. The AC ground is the frame on Escape trailers, which have to meet the US and Canadian electrical codes.
A ground is supplied to the frame of the trailer in case a hot wire contacts the trailer frame it is not THE ground , the ground remains the supply line .
In the case of a generator a GFI comes into play .
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Old 12-01-2015, 12:39 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by cmartin748 View Post
Low voltage is NEVER allowed in the same conduit as high voltage. Even an accidental short could really reek havoc and blow stuff up. When you use shore power the camper is grounded to earth by your power cord. Look inside your converter sometime and you will see that is it all separate. They use a common ground on the case but the "HOT" wires are totally isolated so they may never touch each other.
All wiring must be of the category CAT 1, 2, 3, etc. as the highest voltage in the raceway or conduit.
Personally I ran separate wiring for all of my new installation from the converter more for future troubleshooting than anything else.
However there is no code violation in doing so as long as the above is taken into account.
You will find that with A/C wiring the thermostat wiring is CAT 2 and the power is CAT 1 so they cannot be run together and meet code.
Usually in A/C equipment the wiring from the thermostat wires to the contactor after the terminal strip is insulated for 600 volts and is not cat 2.
I would not consider running the 120 volt AC with the 12 volt in Romex more for keeping the system simpler to troubleshooting and those pesky solid copper wires from breaking.
The separate wiring should (in fiberglass and most other trailers) have a separate ground wire run along with the feed wiring again for easire troubleshooting.
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Old 12-01-2015, 12:53 PM   #17
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Running Romex 14/3 with red wire as 12+

I would not run 14/3 wire, then use red as DC and black as AC. I think that the AC runs one place and the DC runs another place.

Here are some simple things to think about though.

The frame is a good thing to use as a bonding point for ground or negative of the battery. Problem with these fiberglass units, you will have to go in and out through the fiberglass. For all of your items inside, I would use a terminal strip with a heavier wire and attach it to the frame rail bolt.

DC is simple - negative is used as the ground reference, and the positive is the feed to the equipment. You can switch on either side using the positive or the negative.

AC is where you have to be very careful, electrocution is possible if not done correctly.
  1. in the AC panel the neutral is NOT to be connected anywhere to ground.
  2. the ground wire is to be connected to the metallic case and then to the main metallic part of the coach - the frame.
  3. If you are running a generator, you have to make sure that the neutral and ground is connected AT the generator.
When making the AC connections, one has to be careful that the ground and the neutral is not making contact in any of the receptacles. If you do not have a meter, it is best to get one. There should not be any continuity between the neutral and ground when checking at the plug end of the system, that is if nothing is plugged in.


The code states that you are allowed to only have one GROUND point. In steps 1 and 2, the ground point is the post/grid at the building where the power is coming from. In step 3, the ground point is at the GENERATOR.
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Old 12-01-2015, 03:19 PM   #18
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All boats, airplanes, cars, trucks, campers, etc. should have stranded wire for both 12V and 110ac, unless you want to deal with eventual fatigue of the solid wire. I know, the RVIA approves solid wiring (CHEAPER) in building the cheap (but pretty) stickies for their short life. Many have not had issues, but I would rather spend a bit more and do it right. Others were also right about not running low and high voltage together.
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Old 12-01-2015, 03:42 PM   #19
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As large a problem is the insulation over time. If SO cable is used with it's stranded wire the larger problem might be insulation breakdown.
If the romex is used then the proper clamping in the bos should be used. With the length of unsupported wire short there would be little vibration and thus breakage.
I have seen a lot of poor wiring where the things look like a true rat's nest of loose wires.
Here is a picture of the loose 12 volt wiring in my Scamp.



All of the wiring needs to be laced up to limit flexing.
While I am using the converter and it's power distribution system for the 12 volt systems I have a breaker box installed in the left kitchen cabinet with ground fault breakers. All of the 120 VAC wiring in my trailer is romex with the proper mounting boxes and clamping to stabilize the wire.
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Old 12-01-2015, 03:51 PM   #20
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Old 12-01-2015, 05:54 PM   #21
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If you run AC wiring and DC wiring as you stated in your first post, you will introduce AC to your DC wire because they are up shielded and running parrellel together.
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:17 PM   #22
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It is an interesting, but unwise, idea. I ran new 120v circuits in my old Scamp with 12-2 w/ground solid wire because that is what I had, and I felt good about using it. I bought 12-2 stranded (fancy speaker wire) for new 12V circuits. When I added more new LED lights on the existing lighting circuits (after replacing the existing lights with LED) I used stranded 16-2 wire (supposed to be speaker wire, looks a lot like good old Lamp cord). I also have all circuits/wires, be they 12 or 120V, protected with appropriate fuses or breakers. It ain't rocket surgery, be safe out there.
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:48 PM   #23
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I don't have one handy or I would do it myself but someone should post an image of a schematic diagram of a typical 13' egg... When beginning our restoration I remember there was a copper ground wire secured to the frame coming from the 12vdc side of the converter but I believe the 120vac was grounded through the ground on the shore power cord as mentioned above... Also fwiw, as a firefighter I saw the results of what electricity can do to both material things as well as the human variety, it is not worth it
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:53 PM   #24
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Thanks to everyone who had constructive criticism and input. just wanted to add a few things, The progressive dynamics charge controller that came in my Trillium came with the 110v grounded to the trailer frame. The 110v is a heavily jacketed solid wire romex style cable with a reduced size ground wire (David might let me/us know if this is factory)
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:58 PM   #25
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When I ran my 12 volt wiring I had a good bit of three conductor shielded cable. I used this for the ground shield drain wire and the ground and tow conductors for + 12 VDC.
So although the DC and AC might be run close together the 12 volt wiring is shielded.
Also the amount of hum pickup is determined by the impedance of the circuit and the 12 volt circuits are pretty low impedance what with the battery and capacitors to ground.
By the way I didn't decide to use the shielded wire for electrical noise, but rather $$$ since I already had it in the scrap bin.
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:10 PM   #26
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As an aside there are a couple of items of confusion.
Ground and grounding.
Neutral
and
Bonding.

Neutral is where the ground and the neutral come together at the entrance. Neutral and ground are not connected anywhere else.
Bonding is where the conductive cabinets and boxes ate bonded together to prevent electrical shocks if there is a fault inside the box connecting the hot to the chassis of the equipment.
The three wires in 12-3 are hot, neutral and ground.
Now that I have confused everyone...........
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:15 PM   #27
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Those are definitely some of the things people seem to be confused about. I read a bit about this before I posted and there are almost as many opinions as questions
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:27 PM   #28
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Red, Depends on where you live. In Household wiring neutral and ground are not bonded together based on local codes.
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