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Old 06-24-2014, 06:56 PM   #1
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Solar Charge Controller

Just got (most) of the parts together to start solar charging:

100W solar panel
Various wire and connectors
Tracer 20A charge controller


I read the manual for the charge controller and it says: "sealed, gel or flooded" batteries only.

Well......The battery I have is a AGM and I'd like to keep it or at least keep using AGM. I don't want to ruin a AGM battery by hooking up an incompatible controller. A days worth of internet investigation was of little help except to learn that generally speaking, AGM and GEL are both considered "sealed" batteries (Wiki).
Should I interpret my Chinese-English manual to read: "gel, gel or flooded" or "AGM, gel, flooded". Or is there a sealed battery out there that is neither AGM or gel?
Does anyone have any experience/knowledge WRT whether or not a Tracer charge controller can be used with a AGM battery?
I'm going to be at the LongPoint rally in a few weeks. Thanks.
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Old 06-24-2014, 07:33 PM   #2
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The AGM (Asorbant Glass Mat) battery is a sealed battery. There is no free acid that can spill our. They can legally be shipped in the cargo bay of commercial aircraft.

I can't speak to the Tracer controller. I am using a Morning Star SunSaver 10.

There is a jumper on my controller that, connected, sets the controller up for sealed batteries. When you remove the jumper, it is set for flooded batteries. The difference is, that when it is set for 'flooded', every 28 days the controller goes into equalize mode for 3 hours, during which it applies 14.9 v, which is above the normal absorption voltage. It does this because in a battery that is not being used, the electrolyte, sulfuric acid, tends to stratify. Bringing the voltage up to 14.9 for a few hours, causes the electrolyte to gas, ie bubble, mixing the electrolyte and therefore eliminating the stratification. The battery will last much longer this way.

AGM and gel batteries don't have free liquid acid running around in them an so are not subject to stratification.


The real problem here is the term sealed. AGM and gel batteries are sealed, but many maintenance free batteries are sealed as well, no caps or caps glued down. Inside it is a flooded battery and in my humble opinion should be set up as such.

So, if your battery has free acid in it, sealed or unsealed, it is a flooded battery.

Good luck.

Clif

ps: That 20 amp controller should be able to handle at least one more of those 100 W panels with room to spare, should you feel the need to expand your system.
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Old 06-24-2014, 07:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clyle View Post
Just got (most) of the parts together to start solar charging:

100W solar panel
Various wire and connectors
Tracer 20A charge controller


I read the manual for the charge controller and it says: "sealed, gel or flooded" batteries only.

Well......The battery I have is a AGM and I'd like to keep it or at least keep using AGM. I don't want to ruin a AGM battery by hooking up an incompatible controller. A days worth of internet investigation was of little help except to learn that generally speaking, AGM and GEL are both considered "sealed" batteries (Wiki).
Should I interpret my Chinese-English manual to read: "gel, gel or flooded" or "AGM, gel, flooded". Or is there a sealed battery out there that is neither AGM or gel?
Does anyone have any experience/knowledge WRT whether or not a Tracer charge controller can be used with a AGM battery?
I'm going to be at the LongPoint rally in a few weeks. Thanks.
The controller user manual should list it's charge voltages for each battery setting. Compare that to your battery manufacturer suggested charge voltages and choose the closest one. I'm not familiar with your controller but if it lets you change the set points to match your batter specs that's the preferred way to go, though many do not have that option. However if none of it's settings are close to your battery specs you might not get the proper charge and in some cases reduce the life of your battery.
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:02 PM   #4
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I just skimmed through the manual on the Tracer-2210RN/2215RN which are 20 amp controllers. Page 19 shows the setting for the various types of batteries. They actually show sealed lead acid battery, sealed and flooded.

I would contact the manufacturer/distributor for clarification. I would assume that the sealed lead acid battery they are referring to is an AGM, which is a lead acid battery. It's just that the acid is contained in the glass mat. These batteries do need a charger or controller that is set up for their particular charging requirements.
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:03 PM   #5
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I can't set the charge points, but there is a list for each of the 3 types (sealed, gel, flooded). I must confess that I'm out of my element here and the numbers don't mean too much.
I thought I just had to get the parts together, hook 'em up and I'd be good to go. My plan B in most of these cases is to just hook everything up and see what happens, hoping that it will either work or I'll become incrementally smarter in the process. I'm a little reluctant to do such experiments using $200-$300 batteries. I've previously ruined an Ultima using a cheap one-step charger so I know not to do THAT again. I've also emailed the company that makes the controller hoping to get some clarification, but I've found this site a much better source of "real-world" knowledge.
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:36 AM   #6
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Lyle,
You can also find some helpful folks at the Northern Arizona Wind & Solar Forum ( Activity Stream - Solar Electric Power Discussion Forum by Northern Arizona Wind & Sun ).

My Moringstar Controller says to remove the jumper for AGM and flooded batteries, which would apply the equalize voltage to both AGM & flooded.

Didn't we do some pickin' down in Georgia? What fun!

Will you be heading south again this winter? We sold the house and will be full-timin' for a year or so till we find some place speaks to our spirits and says "live here."

Ron
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:57 AM   #7
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Ron,
Mike, Doreen and I were just talking about you a few days ago. I'm still getting unpacked from last winters trip and getting ready for a weekender to Longbeach, ON on 11 July. Too bad about your egg, but every so often ya gotta scale back and start fresh. We're going back for sure. Same general area. Mike is tradeing his trailer for a 5th wheel. We're still playing. Any good festivals out your way?
I should have done better research before beginning my solar project. For starters, my DC setup (batts, etc) are all inside in a space under a seat. If I had the batts outside on the tounge i'd just get cheap flooded batts and be done with it, but where I come from I may as well put up a sign saying "free battery". So the batts are insde. After that I should have chosen GEL batts, but those Ultimas looked so darn cool! Air flow around the solar controller may be another issue? On and on.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:03 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by clyle View Post
Just got (most) of the parts together to start solar charging:

100W solar panel
Various wire and connectors
Tracer 20A charge controller

That is similiar to the setup I am considering. I don't see any fuzes or fuze holders mentioned on your list. That is the only part I have not figured out yet. I have had good luck contacting the folks on the Renogy via their "Chat" function to get my solar questions answered. I think the Tracer is the charge contorller they sell.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:36 AM   #9
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The manual with the solar controller shows a circuit schematic. I plan to go with their recomendations wrt fuse location(s). I'll use 15-20A blade fuses/holders w/10g wire.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:14 AM   #10
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The manual with the solar controller shows a circuit schematic. I plan to go with their recomendations wrt fuse location(s). I'll use 15-20A blade fuses/holders w/10g wire.
Are blade fuzes the standard automotive kind? How available are holders for them with 10 guage wire? I had origianlly planned on going with 10 guage, and might still but am leaning toward even larger wire, 8, 6, or 4. One of my Chats confirmed the controller can take up to 4 guage wire although that does seem like over kill.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:47 AM   #11
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Yes, they're the automobile type, standard or mini. The fuse holder w/10 gauge wire must be pretty common. I already have a few laying around. I've seen them around auto stores for sure. Don't know about "higher" gauges as 10 gauge is adequate for my system, but there must be.
Nothing wrong with a little "over-kill". I usually build assuming that I'll want/have to upgrade at some later time. The 20A solar charger that I got is over-kill for a single 100W panel, but I'm assuming that I'll have two panels before long.
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:00 AM   #12
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The 20A solar charger that I got is over-kill for a single 100W panel, but I'm assuming that I'll have two panels before long.
My thoughts exactly and why I had decided on the 20Amp. I am just waiting on my ship to come in before I go solar. I need new tires on the tug first.
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron F View Post

My Moringstar Controller says to remove the jumper for AGM and flooded batteries, which would apply the equalize voltage to both AGM & flooded.
Ron: You may want to check your MorningStar documentation. Due to their construction and oxygen recombinant chemistry, AGMs shouldn't need equalization as in a flooded battery.

In your battery set points at the back of the manual you will see that AGMs(variously termed sealed or Valve Regulated Lead Acid,VRLA) have both lower absorption and float voltages. You may damage an AGM with too high a charging rate.

For more information and a better understanding of the issues, go here:
Comparing Flooded Batteries to VRLA Batteries

Clyde: In the info on gel batteries, you will see that you made a wise choice of the AGM over the gel for inside the trailer, as the gel in the early stages of it's life actually does gas out until it dries enough for the released oxygen to move from plate to plate.

Good discussion.
Clif
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:56 AM   #14
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Clif,

Thanks for the heads up. I went back to the install/operator manual ( http://www.morningstarcorp.com/wp-co...N_.03-4-13.pdf ).

The install guide for my SunSaver MPPT calls for the jumper removed, but differentiates between flooded and AGM with configuration switch 1. Switch 1 set to On for AGM, Off for flooded, but it doesn't discuss the exact purpose for switch 1. Switch 3 configures equalization on or off, and has equalization On for both flooded and AGM. Perhaps switch 1 sets the voltage level for both the charging and equalization.

Anyway; it's moot in my case since I'm in a low crime area and I'm using a flooded battery, but perhaps it's time for a call to Morningstar.

Ron
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:26 AM   #15
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Yeah, I did some reading in your manual and a call to MorningStar would be a good idea. It appears that both the jumper and switch 1 are used to set the battery type.

Though there are voltage and time factors for equalization listed for AGMs
in the Battery Setpoints chart, the manual on page 14 clearly states:

"The auto equalize feature will administer an equalization charge
(flooded battery type only) every 28 days or if the battery
discharges too low the previous night."

This statement seems to contradict the chart.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:56 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Minimalist View Post
Yeah, I did some reading in your manual and a call to MorningStar would be a good idea. It appears that both the jumper and switch 1 are used to set the battery type.

Though there are voltage and time factors for equalization listed for AGMs
in the Battery Setpoints chart, the manual on page 14 clearly states:

"The auto equalize feature will administer an equalization charge
(flooded battery type only) every 28 days or if the battery
discharges too low the previous night."

This statement seems to contradict the chart.
Not exactly. I use this controller and the manual is correct. Switch 3 turns auto-equalization on and off, period. If that switch is off it won't ever equalize. Switch one changes the set points, so with the jumper removed you'll either be ON for AGM or OFF for Flooded. The reason they share the ability to equalize is simply because there are only 4 switches and they chose those battery types to be represented with the jumper removed. Also, some manufacturers do state you can equalize AGMs which is likely why they chose this combination, even though most say you should never do it.

This controller is much more than a simple charge controller, it has some great features if you use the software, including updating it's firmware. It also allows you to see all of the controllers active settings, what it's doing, and what's actually occurring. With my switch 3 off it never tries to equalize, it will just push to the bulk voltage, hold it, and taper off to float after the set time period. I've watched this with the controller connected to my laptop, it acts the way it's supposed to.

Leave switch 3 off, you'll be fine.

Hope that helps.
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:48 PM   #17
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I satisfied myself that the Tracer 2210RN solar controller could be used with an AGM battery with the charge settings for the battery set for "sealed battery". I stress that this result came with absolutely no assistance from EPSOLAR who makes the Tracer. No info in the documentation, no info on their website and in spite of the "contact us", no replies to emails. There may be some out there to whom using the sealed battery for AGM may be obvious, but it wasn't to me. A simple yes or no as to whether or not the controller was suitable with AGM would have made the operation much easier.
The battery compartment is vented and cooling for the controller is improved by mounting a very small CPU fan ( about the size of a Can Looney) underneath the controller. It's powered by the Load output and draws .012A.
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:55 AM   #18
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I've used Morningstar customer support and they were really good about responding to questions.
Ron
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:22 AM   #19
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Noted Ron. I've already filed Morningstar away for future reference. I like that you can set individual charge rates and of course the support is a big plus.
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Old 07-17-2014, 06:02 AM   #20
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I just received a reply from the manufacturer (EPSOLAR) of the Tracer solar controller. Not a prompt response, but a proper response none the less. So in the interest of fairness I am updating my previous posts. For the Tracer 2210RN solar controller. EPSOLAR recomends using the "sealed battery" setting for AGM batteries. They do not recommend using the "GEL battery" setting for AGMs. Although not stated in their reply, I assume that they consider the charge settings for the sealed battery setting the most compatible with AGMs. After some weeks of internet searching and advice from some of you here I had come to the same conclusion, but it's nice to hear from the manufacturer.
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