Wiring help

[RogerDat]

Bob Miller suggested a Progressive Dynamics model back on page 1, That specific model did not have any reviews on Amazon but a related model from same company did probably worth checking over the reviews. Can often learn a lot from what people have to say who have installed one. Most of the PD models appear popular and well reviewed.

http://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Dy...4XMP7H3WEXF633

Looks like this one gets hard wired in for AC input which may offer more flexibility than one that plugs into an outlet.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by summer scamp

Have any suggestions for a quality converter?

I have installed seven Progressive-Dynamics PD-4045 converters, three in my personal FGRV's and four for customers.

As an all-in-one package for AC & DC power, as well as having a built in smart battery charger, I know of nothing in the same size and price range that can compare for ease of installation and quality.

[summer scamp]

http://www.appliedgmc.com/images/PD9200_Manual.pdf

Looking at the manual for this converter and cross referencing it with the wiring diagram of scamp that was posted earlier...
I don't see where the wiring rainbow from the scamp is being hooked into the converter like the scamp schematic shows. Anyone hooked this variety of converter and shed some light?

Ps. Don't worry too much.. One of my good buddies is an electrician and will help me install it. But I like to understand it for myself. Thanks!

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by summer scamp

Looking at the manual for this converter and cross referencing it with the wiring diagram of scamp that was posted earlier...

The manual for the one you posted shows the converter and distribution panels as separate units, in the scamp they are combined.

Much like the one Roger uses: http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/1...ish%20Only.pdf

Do you have a distribution panel already or are you going to need to install one?

[summer scamp]

Ahhhhh... I was wondering what the schematic meant by distribution center (said DC) and without giving it much thought I read AC (as in the breaker box.... )...
I have no distribution panel... Just rainbow wires and battery wires running in and all through inside. And then a breaker box running the 120 stuff. As far as I can tell these are wired as two separate system in our scamp with no other hardware or electronics on board.

So, then I need something like the 4200 series progressive dynamics unit.... Do you remove exiting breaker box and just build a cabinet for it in the same location? Or can it be installed elsewhere? Curious because the rainbow wires don't all run all the way under sink where breaker box is.. Just trying to avoid ripping all wires out I guess

[Raz]

A converter is a combination charger/ DC power supply. Do you camp mostly with electrical hook ups for days on end. Then a converter is nice to have. If not then a good battery charger will do. A battery charger ($50) will charge your battery before you head out and let you maintain your battery between trips. The tow will charge it in between camp sites. A solar set up may be a better place to put your money. If my PD 4045 died today I would not replace it. Also if you've not done it yet, switch to LED lights. They use about 20% of the power an incandescent bulb does which equates to less discharge on the battery. Good luck and enjoy your project. Raz

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by P. Raz

A solar set up may be a better place to put your money. If my PD 4045 died today I would not replace it.

That is an interesting comment Raz. My converter is on its way out and I was thinking of going with something like the PD 4045. Ideally I don't need something with that much power and would like to find something with the solar integrated. Sort of an all in one package relocated under the front bench.

So how would you do it then? I've got the solar to install. I currently use an external battery charger, the one for my vehicles. I don't like the current position of the converter at the rear bench where body parts inadvertantly hit switches.

[summer scamp]

So I could leave everything as is and just get a good battery charger setup and be good to go today?????
. We don't mind if we camp with power or just boondock so maybe that's the way to go until we see if it works for us. Gotta have her road worthy by June 5th... Then it's time to summer scamp ( both teachers)

[DaMScampers]

Great conversation. Summer Scamp, it appears you are finding yourself in the same situation I was in last August. New-old scamp, the mystery of the AC/DC system, and the deeper mystery of previous choices made by previous owners.

I have a PD converter and love it. I also have one of their power panels (possibly check out some of my previous post for some pics). Additionally I took the opportunity to retire a great deal of the trailer.

Finally (for now), I made up my own wiring drawings that pulled the different "layers" of wiring apart. This really helped me understand what was going on and how I needed to require.

Here are some low res pics of those layers. If you are interested in the originals, let me know.

[Roy in TO]

Nice diagrams Dave!
Could you please post your links as text rather than in the picture? They work better that way for some of us.

[summer scamp]

As I still ponder the electrical system, diagrams, model numbers.... ...
I kept busy by redoing a whole bunch of plumbing and pipe fittings and installed the backsplashes:
Aluminum sheet stock with a pattern of big and little circles stamped all the way through

[Bob Miller]

Yes, you "could" get by with just a battery charger. We full timed in a Airstream for a year that only had a battery charger and a huge 8D battery for DC power. But that was 35 years ago and there are lot more items that you might want to run off of 12 Volts than back in the daze.

Plus, regular automotive battery chargers won't do as good a job charging and prolonging the life of a deep cycle battery as one designed for that purpose. But for one season, it might be just fine..

TIP: Buy a Wal-Mart deep cycle battery. It's easier to get a new one on the road if it fails in use.

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by DaMScampers

Here are some low res pics of those layers. If you are interested in the originals, let me know.

Here are the links in David's pictures:

Converter: IntelliPower 9130 + Charge Wizard http://www.progressivedyn.com/power_...ters_9100.html
Intelli-Power PD9130 30A Electronic RV Converter/Charger
Charge Wizard RV Battery Charging and Battery Monitoring Products from Progressive Dynamics

AC/DC power panel PD5000
PD5000 Series AC/DC Power Distribution Panels

But given the size of the panel and a few other things, I am starting to see why Bob likes the PD4045
Mighty Mini All-In-One System AC/DC Power Distribution Panel and Inteli-Power Converter

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Yes, you "could" get by with just a battery charger. We full timed in a Airstream for a year that only had a battery charger and a huge 8D battery for DC power. But that was 35 years ago and there are lot more items that you might want to run off of 12 Volts than back in the daze.

But unless you camp where there is power, you are getting by with just a battery charger. A rather expensive battery charger. Raz

[RogerDat]

Efficient use of money is somewhat dependent on type of camping.

Mostly boondock and rustic park camping without shore power the same $150 as a PD charge controller would go a long way toward doing solar that would probably be of more use in that situation because it will let you maintain your battery and use electric lights etc. running off the battery.

Generally camp with electric hookup with an occasional 1 or 2 days of rustic the PD is probably going to be more useful because you will maintain your battery hooking up and be able to get use out of 12 volt lights etc. that you will want for those couple of days of rustic camping or overnight in a parking lot while traveling.

[Bob Miller]

The PD-4045 offers much more than just a converter for the FGRV owner wanting to update to at least 2010 standards. You also get up to seven 120VAC circuits, 12 fused DC circuits, a 3 stage smart charger that will keep your battery very happy and fully charged when at home/or hooked up, and the 45 amp converter section. We would have to stay in one place at least 3-4 days (with a group 27 battery) before charging is needed, and there is always the TV's charging line for a quick boost if needed.

But, that said, a solar setup also has it's advantages, but only after an update to the older ac/dc/converter/charger section was done.
Here's a link to the 4000 series boxes:
Mighty Mini All-In-One System AC/DC Power Distribution Panel and Inteli-Power Converter

[summer scamp]

Solar was an option that the mrs wanted me to look into for a future project...
...... What to do..... I have everything but the cabinets out and would probably be easier to just get it all done now and take a bit longer. But man, buttoning her up right now and letting her get in and decorate is tempting

[Roy in TO]

You can split the solar job in 2. Controller and wiring now, panels later.

[summer scamp]

Mighty Mini All-In-One System AC/DC Power Distribution Panel and Inteli-Power Converter

45 amp or 60 amp? is this a fairly easy option for later install of solar?

can the unit be located under the front bunk in the storage area or is it easier to just remove the old breaker box and install its location?

looking at the diagram, i need to run lines directly from the battery to the new power center - do i just cut and cap existing battery lines as soon as they come into the inside where the black and white connect immediately to the rainbow and run new dedicated lines to the power center? How would the new system tie into the rainbow wires then?

when you back into a camp spot with shore power, isnt the power usually on the side opposite where the power cord comes out of the side of the scamp?

[RogerDat]

Originally Posted by summer scamp

Mighty Mini All-In-One System AC/DC Power Distribution Panel and Inteli-Power Converter

45 amp or 60 amp? is this a fairly easy option for later install of solar?

can the unit be located under the front bunk in the storage area or is it easier to just remove the old breaker box and install its location?

looking at the diagram, i need to run lines directly from the battery to the new power center - do i just cut and cap existing battery lines as soon as they come into the inside where the black and white connect immediately to the rainbow and run new dedicated lines to the power center? How would the new system tie into the rainbow wires then?

when you back into a camp spot with shore power, isnt the power usually on the side opposite where the power cord comes out of the side of the scamp?

That Mighty Mini is sort of different beast in that it is an entire electrical panel in one device. I have tended more toward the dedicated device approach. AC load center for AC, Converter as load center for 12 volt. That disclaimer out of the way.

Amps required depend on how much draw your gadgets and equipment will draw. I don't know the capacity people find necessary but the stock converter from scamp in the online store is 30 amp.

Under front bunk is a good location for much of this stuff. Converter becomes "source" for all your existing 12 volt system and those existing feed lines come in from the front you don't cut n cap you tie them into converter. If you put converter under bunk or under sink either way existing wires to system and battery tie into converter.

In effect the converter sits on the circuit between battery and rest of trailer and either gets power for trailer 12 volt from battery or supplies 12 volt power when plugged into shore power. It is an electric switch of sorts that switches to it's internal transformer as source for 12 volt when it gets 110 current from shore power. Or back to battery as source when 110 is not available.

Converter at the minimum just needs a 110 line run to it. As others have mentioned it can also function as your 110 AC load center too. But does not have to. You can treat it as just 12 volt converter OR as an AC sub panel such as one might have out in a shop at home. Sort of depends on how much wire you want to run.

Your rainbow of wires if 12 volt would need to be run to one of the fused circuits of the charge controller. Or if rainbow wire is 110 you can pick if you want to connect to existing 110 load center or run new wires to 110 circuit of converter.

Charge controller for solar is another device that would work well in this front storage location as would a 12 volt to 110 inverter if you ever decide to have a 110 plug that draws from the battery. Inverters work better if they have a nice short length of really heavy gauge wire to the battery. And I think solar charge controller to battery connection benefits from short heavy wire also.