Anti-backflow valve - Fiberglass RV


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Old 03-20-2003, 12:25 AM   #1
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Anti-backflow valve

Does anyone have any info to share regarding a California State Park rule that requires an Anti-backflow valve?

Last summer I camped at a group site in Sugar Pine Point State park near Lake Tahoe. A couple of hours after we arrived the ranger stopped by and told me I needed to disconnect my RV hose from the water supply. I explained that the water supply was still accessible by any one else who needed it because I used a ''y'' adapter with an extra hose bib and valve. He said that I didn't have an anti-backflow valve installed and that it was a State Park requirement. I got the immediate impression that the officer primarily wanted to hassle us. I immediately disconnected and complied with the officers demand. Just before leaving, the officer implied that he was keeping his eye on us and said that he had received complaints that we were rowdy and noisy the previous night. Boy was this guy drifting clueless in a sea of knowledge. a simple check of the camp schedule would have given him the hint that we had not spent the previous night in the park. Sheesh! After that comment there was little doubt about his intent to hassle.

My Burro is equipped with a sure-flo check valve that prevents pressurized water from leaving the system via the inlet. This is internal to the RV though, and does not prevent water in the supply hose from backflowing when the camp water pressure goes negative. Seems to me that an anti-backflow, or a vacuum breaker valve should be a permanent part of the campground water supply.

Any one else been in this predicament?

I sent an email to the California State Park info address with this question (and many others) but the only reply was that they would forward it to the district office. I suspect my message is now aimlessly adrift in the ocean of State Park email. Funny how the cyber world mimics the real world.



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Old 03-20-2003, 04:48 AM   #2
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Hi John
I have never heard of such a thing for RVs.I do use a water presure reducer at the tap, in case pressure is to high for my RV.I am going to ask a friend of mine who is a RV teck and see what he says.:wave



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Old 03-20-2003, 06:18 AM   #3
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idiocy

only in PC California. :r



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Old 03-20-2003, 06:53 AM   #4
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>>anti-backflow valve

In all the years I've been around RV'ing, I've never heard of such a device being required.

Doesn't mean "the letter of the law" or for that matter, a "new law" doesn't have something in the code.

I would think that the check-valve at the city-water-inlet on your trailer would suffice ... also another check valve at the water pump. There is no way water from your "fresh water" tank (which could be contaminated or something) could be siphoned back into the park's water system.

Many parks, however, have regulations against you hooking up to a "area" water supply spigot ... even if you use a Y-fitting.

You'd be better off (and hassled less) if you just filled up your tank and use your water pump.



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Old 03-20-2003, 07:40 AM   #5
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Water hook-up 'code'

At one campground, my neighbor, who was staying the maximum number of days allowed, ran his hose to a centrally located spigot so they could shower each day (it was hot). There was no sewer hook-up at his site, Guess where the grey water went.

Another time a camper didn't have enough hose to reach to the celtrally located spigot so he solved that with a trip to Wal-mart, connected his 25' hose to two new 100' hoses and strung it across the campground (with a tee at the spigot).

Perhaps the ranger was a day late, but I'll bet his visit was about being a good neighbor more than about a back-flow valve. :o

Anybody wanna goto RMNP about now? :)



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Old 03-20-2003, 08:06 AM   #6
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I had a guy once run his hose across my lot to get to the central community water spigot.

He didn't leave the hose connected, but he asked me if he could leave it "strung" across my campsite for easy connection the next time he needed water.

I politely pointed out that I might trip over his hose ... and besides that, I said my dog "loved" to chew on hoses (ok, so I lied!).

John, please don't think we're piling on you. We're not.

It's just that if you camp enough, you'll be amazed at what you see. I've even seen "multiple" y-connectors ... in other words, a y-connector connected to another y-connector, making it a three-way water split.

I've even been known to play dumb (something I do well), and turn off the water instead of just turning off the open y-connector after filling a 5-gallon tank ... only to have the "connected" guy ask me later "Hey, did you turn off the water?"

"Yes, I'm sorry," I said.

"Well, I'm hooked up!" he said.

"Sorry, I forgot!"



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Old 03-20-2003, 08:09 AM   #7
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Amazingly enough ... I forgot again ... and again ... and again.



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Old 03-20-2003, 08:33 AM   #8
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Quote:
Orginally posted by Charles Watts

Amazingly enough ... I forgot again ... and again ... and again.
Charles;

I have done the same thing. It must be Caiitaits.

Don

RMNP We have to make sure the dump crew is there.



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Old 03-20-2003, 09:26 AM   #9
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Well, John says his hose was hooked up to a community spigot at a "group" campground ... assuming it was just his group camping there, that's slightly different.

I may be splitting hairs ...

But when in a regular campground ... amongst strangers... for someone to hook up their hose full-time (with a y-splitter) ... is kinda saying:

"Hey, I'm hooking up to water fulltime ... the rest of you share this half."

Which is why most campgrounds have rules against hooking up to the community spigot.

Many of the spigots, as a result, are threadless to prevent hooking up your hoses. (I carry a "water thief" for cases such as this, so that I can temporarily hold a hose on the threadless spigot ... but only to fill my fresh water tank or 5 gallon carry tote.)



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Old 03-20-2003, 11:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
Orginally posted by Charles Watts

Amazingly enough ... I forgot again ... and again ... and again.
Charles I was referring to forgetting.

A friend of mine has had his ax slip out of his hand in the middle of the night and damage hoses used like that.

He also carries potatoes that sometimes find there way into the tailpipes of generators that run in quiet time.

:) :) Nick



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Old 03-20-2003, 11:58 AM   #11
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I'm not an advocate of retaliation. But, back to the original question. I have camped at places, can't recall where specifically at this time, that require a vacuum breaker at the spigot end of the hose, even at your own site spigot. The reason the one on the camper isn't enough is that they don't know what else you've used that hose for. Draining gray water? Black water? Antifreeze? Pesticide? One can't assume the guy hooking the hose up has thought about that. He may kill himself, but doesn't need to kill the rest of the campground, too. Vacuum breakers cost under $10, and I just keep one in the drawer.

I do agree that it isn't polite to in any way infringe on either 1) other people's camp space, or 2) public access space. In other words, use public space for what it is intended, and for nothing else. If the spigot wasn't intended for you to hook up to, don't. If I'm walking my dog, I always carry plastic bags in my pocket, and clean up messes immediately. And, I don't let the dog do her thing on someone's site, but make her wait till we get to no-man's-land. That's a change of subject, but it really isn't: I don't want to cause any offense when camping. I hope others will act the same, but if they don't, I won't retaliate.



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Old 03-20-2003, 02:02 PM   #12
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Paul;

I had never given the the vacuum breaker a thought. thanks for the heads up.

I wasn't advocating retaliation. There are people out there that do though.:sad



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Old 03-20-2003, 02:14 PM   #13
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For that matter, I think don't think a Marshall water pressure regulator valve ... which every camper should have ... will back flow.

<img src=http://www.campingworld.com/images/products/normal/7000/7041A.JPG/>

I usually install a water pressure regulator on the faucet ... before the hose ... so that the hose is protected from high water pressure, in addition to protecting the trailer's water system.

John, perhaps the ranger wouldn't have complained had he seen a water pressure valve connected?



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Old 03-20-2003, 02:55 PM   #14
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Perhaps I should be a little more descriptive with respect to the layout of the camp. The water bib in question was midway between two RV spaces (approximately 20 feet between spaces). It appeared to me (silly me!) that the water bib was intended for those two spaces. The other space was vacent at the time and was occupied later by a Class A type MH. I wanted to mention to the other tenant(s) the it was not a good idea to connect to the water bib but they were never seen outside the rig.

I did, out of necessity, use my full RV water tank. No problem. I was tempted to point out to the ranger that I had a pressure regulator connected on the end of my hose but as I said, this guy was intent on escalating the situation and I was not going to let him do that, so I simply disconnected. I figured the quality of the water system was about the same as the hired help and it really was in my best interest to disconnect and not ever reconnect.

My pressue regulator is a cheap plastic one, someday I will fork out the dough and get a nice brass one. I was curious if any one else knew of these kinds of rules and if so what the source for such a device is.

Thanks for all of the responses, they are quite interesting to read. I really do try to be a good neighbor especially when we are out enjoying the great outdoors.



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Old 03-20-2003, 03:24 PM   #15
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It's not just Calif PC, backflow preventers are required on ALL outside faucets spigots by most if not all US plumbing codes. They are there to prevent a hose laying in a puddle of unknown stuf, combined with a fault in the water supply, sucking up the puddle and getting it into the water system (it does happen, depending on the relatively heights of the puddle and where the water system is open).

BTW, I believe the backflow preventers for faucets are usually the spring-loaded valve type, not the air-gap type found on dishwashers and other appliances.

Our RV backflow preventers would probably meet the requirement (dunno for sure), but they are primarily intended to keep your 12VDC water from leaking out of an unused city water connection.

Where the ranger was wrong was that the CG faucet should have been equipped with a backflow preventer already!

A regulator is a good thing because I have heard several horror stories on rorv-t about bursting tubing from excessive CG pressure in big RV parks.

Pete and Rats



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Old 03-20-2003, 07:31 PM   #16
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Charles -- I believe you are correct about the pressure regulator. Also, I've noticed an increasing number of campgrounds have the backflow preventer permanently attached to the spigot.

John -- All too often, when we post something, we tell half the story for the sake of brevity, and the readers can misunderstand. If you are a courteous camper, accept our apologies if you felt we jumped down your throat. If you are a dis-courteous camper, let us jump again! ;) Live and learn, right?

Nick -- I understand, and, yes, there are those out there who retaliate, often before finding out the "rest of the story", such as John's case of misunderstanding the intent of the equipment. Had the park attendant come by and said either, "If you wish to hook up to the water supply, I'll have to ask you to run over to the camp store first and pick up a backflow preventer", or "I'm sorry -- that is a common spigot, and we can't allow you to hook up to it", much unpleasantness could have been averted. Instead, some folks go through life looking for a fight. Too bad...



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Old 03-20-2003, 07:50 PM   #17
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Call me unsympathetic, but if the park rules required a back-flow preventer, then the campground should install them. I've seen this done at a couple of parks. They just used the standard $5 version that building code requires at every exterior hose bib. A set screw breaks off after installation which prevents "loss".



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Old 03-20-2003, 08:23 PM   #18
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Marshall Brass Regulator Backflow Prevention

I just grabbed my Marshall Brass pressure regulator. I can blow through it both ways with zero effort. :m

-- Dan Meyer



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Old 03-20-2003, 10:46 PM   #19
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This forum seems to be well moderated, in the sense of primarily self moderation and otherwise when needed. I have followed other boards that are not moderated at all and have seen how un-moderated threads can degrade rapidly.

This thread seems to have touched a raw nerve with many participants that have received the short end of water bib courtesy. I fully understand even though I haven't been camping in ''camperland'' (i.e. campgrounds with running water) long enough to be exposed to some of the ''hosers'' out there. My fair share of abuse will come all too soon. When my time comes I hope I can keep my cool and not burst a hose.

Speaking of bursting a hose...:splat
Yeah.... I just had to go out to the Burro and snatch up my plastic pressure regulator. Its so cheap that the manufacturer is too embarrased to put thier name on it. By the way...it too fails in the two way blowing hot air test. If any one comes across a web source for an anti-backflow or vacuum breaker valve (maybe even a combo ABF valve and regulater) that meets the desires of the State Park anointed ones.... Please post it in this thread. I will be the first in line to plop down the scratch to get such a golden treat. No-sir-eee, sure don't want to get on the wrong side of gun toting Jonny law. Especially since we will be doing our family camp again this summer at the same state park. (possibly even the same group area) I want to come prepared especially because......I know that ranger will still have his eye on us rabble rousers!



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Old 03-21-2003, 06:29 AM   #20
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Anti-Siphon

FWIW, I was in the Home Depot yesterday for another project and I wandered by the plumbing department. The anti-siphon/vacuum breaker brass thingy was $3.95. It's definitely a one way device. It appears to be the exact device installed on all the faucets in my marina as well.



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