plumbing plumbing plumbing.....

[Herb P]

So I 'fired' up the plumbing last night (though not in the same fashion as I 'fired' up the propane but that's another thread)... The 1700 sat, apparently, for 3 years with no action, and in spite of the previous owners assurances that everything worked when he put it away, pretty much nothing was without problems throughout this whole affair... I decided I'd put water in the tank first and slowly pressurize the system with the shur-flo before hooking up my city water... My hope was to prevent the 'new water feature in the driveway' problem.

So here's what I discovered:

- The freshwater drain valve leaks. (chinese water torture leak, not rivulets or a gusher).
- The blackwater dump valve leaks (chinese water torture leak).
- The toilet valve leaks or is wide open.
- The shur-flo leaks.
- The shower fittings all leak.

So, ignoring the first two since those are relatively straight forward to repair, on to the 3rd. The toilet (I can't recall the brand at the moment) constantly flows water into the bowl. It takes about 1 minute to fill the bowl at the rate it's going. I look under the toilet through a small access-slit and I can see the mechanism and watch it open/close the valve when I step on the floor pedal but regardless of the position of the pedal, the water flows still. I worked it a few dozen times in hopes that the valve was dry and would 'get better' but such is not the case. Here's the troubling part.. Near as I can tell, the toilet is screwed to the floor of the shower stall from _underneath_ the trailer. Similarly near as I can tell, I can't get there without removing the blackwater tank. Can anyone dispute that? (Boler 1700 SGH model).

The Shur-flo leaks on the pump head, where the two halves seperate. It looks like the rubber gasket around the wobble valves is a little compressed. Clearly it's been leaking for some time given the calcification around the lower screws of the pump head. I put a teeny bead of RTV on it hoping it will hold up for this camping trip but I'm not hopeful. I'm sad that I sold my 1300 with the FloJet pump in it. That pump was at least 2 orders of magnitude quieter than this shurflo which sounds like the jake-brake on a Peterbilt... Anyone have experience rebuilding shur-flo pumps? My guess is it's not worth it and I should just buy a flo-jet or something... Comments?

In the meantime, I'm going to add a valve on the toilet circuit so I can turn it off and go camping this weekend.

[Brian B-P]

My B1700RGH has a Monogram Deluxe Classic Toilet model 461. Herb, in case you have this model and don't have the manual, I will e-mail it to you - it's not in the Document Center yet.

The bowl fill rate sounds, if it is the same equipment as in my Boler, like the fill valve is wide open. That should correspond to the pedal pushed down to just before the point that the dump gate starts to open. If the pedal still goes through some travel from its off/up position before the gate starts to open, then perhaps the pedal is simply not connected to the fill valve anymore, and the fill valve is stuck open?

In the B1700RGH, the toilet sits on one end of the black tank, which in turn sits on the floor (and extends under the dinette seat). The shower interior is sandwiched between the toilet and tank, conforming to the tank shape. I think the SGH has the same bits, arranged further back in the trailer, with the tank extending under some cabinet (the closet?). I don't think anything is done from under the floor, since everything sits on top of the flooring plywood.

In the end, the packaging may not matter, because if it is like this Monogram, the toilet is held by the same sort of T-head closet bolts as used in residential installations, to a flange on the black tank, but the nuts on top are accessible only by a bizarre path through that small access slit.

[Brian B-P]

My SHURflo Series 200 pump doesn't leak, but the noise is annoying... although not Jake-brake level. The biggest annoyance for me is the cycling at anything but full-open-faucet flows; the solution would be an accumulator or a variable-speed pump, but since it works, I'm not messing with it.

I have the SHURflo installation manual, but it is useless for rebuilding, and has no internal information.

Maybe the hammering is not the pump itself, but a "water hammer" pressure-wave effect in the piping? An accumulator or "water hammer arrestor" might cushion that out.

[Herb P]

My B1700RGH has a Monogram Deluxe Classic Toilet model 461. Herb, in case you have this model and don't have the manual, I will e-mail it to you - it's not in the Document Center yet.

The bowl fill rate sounds, if it is the same equipment as in my Boler, like the fill valve is wide open. That should correspond to the pedal pushed down to just before the point that the dump gate starts to open. If the pedal still goes through some travel from its off/up position before the gate starts to open, then perhaps the pedal is simply not connected to the fill valve anymore, and the fill valve is stuck open?

In the B1700RGH, the toilet sits on one end of the black tank, which in turn sits on the floor (and extends under the dinette seat). The shower interior is sandwiched between the toilet and tank, conforming to the tank shape. I think the SGH has the same bits, arranged further back in the trailer, with the tank extending under some cabinet (the closet?). I don't think anything is done from under the floor, since everything sits on top of the flooring plywood.

In the end, the packaging may not matter, because if it is like this Monogram, the toilet is held by the same sort of T-head closet bolts as used in residential installations, to a flange on the black tank, but the nuts on top are accessible only by a bizarre path through that small access slit.

Thanks Brian...

Sounds like we have the same throne. I have the manual for it and based on my inexperienced view, it looked like there were screws that attached the outer shell to the base via screws that go in from the bottom, and that's what it looked like to me as well.

Looking in the slit, with the pedal up, I can see the mechanism that goes to the water valve, as well as the drain valve. Both are hooked up and both move the valves. However, regardless of water valve position, the water goes past the valve..

So you're saying I can remove the 'yellow' shell from the base without going under the trailer? Do I have to have small dainty hands?

Here's some pics:

http://www.beer.org/gallery/Boler17-refresh/IMG_5476

http://www.beer.org/gallery/Boler17-refresh/IMG_5478

That last one shows the closet 'behind' the toilet. It's a piece of wood that goes all the way up the shower stall.

[Herb P]

Ok, thanks Brian. I found the two bolts that free the throne. After removing it, I see some previous butthead used a hose clamp to attach the poly-B to a cut off 1/4" NPT nipple that he cut one end off (no barbs, just a smooth tube).. From there it went to a 3/8" NPT adapter and then to the 1/2" NPT ball valve. The mounts for the ball valve loosened up at some point so it was largely just resting in place. The ball valve itself is shot.

I'm debating whether to just buy a new toilet or try to make this one work again.

In the meantime I've plugged the water circuit.

sigh.

[Brian B-P]

...I found the two bolts that free the throne. After removing it, I see some previous butthead...

Less than four hours elapsed... not bad! Can we conclude that Herb has "small dainty hands"?

My preferred term is The Dreaded Previous Owner...

Given the supposedly "standard" mounting flange, my guess is that a workable new replacement should be readily available (as long as a short one is selected due to the raised base on top of the black tank), and might be the easiest route. I know my wife would choose a new one...

The second linked photo seems to show the end of the blackwater tank (the tank is grey) at the bottom of the photo, behind (left in the photo) the wheel housing (which is covered by wall lining material).

[Herb P]

Less than four hours elapsed... not bad! Can we conclude that Herb has "small dainty hands"?

nope. just small dainty wrenches.

Given the supposedly "standard" mounting flange, my guess is that a workable new replacement should be readily available (as long as a short one is selected due to the raised base on top of the black tank), and might be the easiest route. I know my wife would choose a new one...

After camping this weekend, I can better gauge the size of a replacement. I think you're probably right, the height is pretty good... My kid was afraid to use it (I told him there were snakes in the tank) so I don't know how the height is for him...