The toilet behaved... the rest of the plumbing....

[Gina D.]

OK, here is a timeline.. all you X purts out there put your heads together and point me in the right direction..

I have a huge problem with water backing into my shower after about a gallon of water goes into the gray tank. It was a little at fist, but now it is impossible.

Here is what we all tried to do at the mtn. Ranch rally to get me up and running again... none of it worked.

The thing acts like the Grey tank is full, but we all know its empty. You can hardly get anything in it.. from the drains..the first thought was the vent was clogged so....

We jambed a hose down the vent and tried to rotor rooter from the top. No clog. So, on goes the water and we try to blow out from the top. The grey tank filled and eventually, as you would expect, the drains spit water up in all the sinks and showers.

Hmnn... drain the tank, which is now REALLY full, try again from a faucet.. a gallon or so goes in, and water comes up the shower.

So, we drain again, and get the trickle you would expect.. everyone them jumped in the trailer and we all "manned" a drain, keeping it plugged while water went down one of the kitchen sinks. We actually got the tank to fill again that way, and managed to get water to come out of the vent.. but... no small animals, old Kleenex or anything else unsavory come out. (At one point, a couple sticks that looked like knitting needles jumped out of the kitchen sink.. probably someones miniature Kabob gone astray...)

So, Try running water as normal again, and sure enough, the shower fills up in no time. ARRRGGHHH!!!

Next, we try back flushing.. everyone on a drain, Linda holding the broken dump cover on while the hose is filling from the DRAIN side. Once again, we get is pressurized enough to get water to come out the vent.. but still, nothing unsavory dislodges.

In between these games of drain twister, the tank sat overnite with Baking soda in it, and we dumped a bottle of orange cleaner, and Dawn dish washing soap in, thinking it was grease that had filled the tank and it had no capacity left.

Since it can be filled from everywhere else but a drain INSIDE the trailer, that seems unlikely. We got gallons and gallons to come out after we filled from backflushing or from the vent.

None of this has done anything but spring a new leak UNDER me sink, which I have not found the source of yet. I am pretty sure it's a loose city connection.. but we will see.

After everyone left, I messed around with changing the level of the trailer.. that did nothing either.

I give up.. where now?

[Chester Taje]

Sorry Gina but i can't help myself.Buy a New Escape.


I never heard of a problem like that.

[Alf S.]

Hi: Yepper I second the "Escape plan" If my water supply can be plugged by one lousy Earwig ... Yours can too !!! Tank Theory...for water to go in air must come out!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[Frederick L. Simson]

I give up.. where now?

Put the trailer on a lift, and drop the tank?

[Doug Mager]

....sorry to say this but, loose the new Egg and go back to the "Cuteness Factor" (13footer minus the luxuries of the big brother), you are experiencing issues VERY common to other trailer with the built in 'nicities'. YES thay can be overcome but prolly WILL return

[Gina D.]

I am not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater...

even if the bathwater won't drain.

[Bigfoot Mike]

Burp the baby.
You have air trapped in the tank.

I added a vent to the top of my tank across to the bathroom sink air vent. Worked great.

[Greg A]

I don't have a bathroom in the Scamp so not really one to help, but Mike hit exactly what I was thinking when I first read this. Like in your house plumbing when they forget to put in a vent stack, your tub drains really slow and backs up sometimes. (really happened on a new house awhile back) I'll bet he's nailed it....

[Byron Kinnaman]

If it's an air lock wouldn't opening up the dump valve and removing the drain cap cure it enough to test the theory? That's assuming you're someplace you can let the water run out or at a dump station.

My gray water tank has a very simple vent. A short piece of hose comes out of the top into a storage area and then back down and out the bottom of the trailer. It also works as an overflow.

[Per Walthinsen]

I'm with Frederick: drop the tank.

[Per Walthinsen]

I've spent all night awake trying to figure this out , but I don't believe I've got it.

If you can fill the tank from the sink, maybe there is an obstuction in the P-trap or beyond in the shower drain? I use a rubber stopper in the drain when I'm on the road, as a rule, but I know that the stopper is of a diameter that will probably slip further down the drain if I push on it even a little bit. Could there be an obstruction like that that has traveled down the pipe past the P-trap?

Since it is a Burro maybe there is a medical term for this. Take it to a vet?

[Gina D.]

I cannot fill the tank from any of the sinks or the shower.

The only way the tank gets full is to dump in from the vent, or from the dump valve side.

I was in a spot where water could be dumped easily. I filled the measly amount of "gray" dirty water into my portables and then we could freely dump clean on the ground.

I have the worlds cleanest Grey tank now.. but it appears to want to stay that way.

Trapped air was everyones first concensous, but, it doesn't seem to be the case. At least, we did all the proper steps to eliminate it. An obstruction is still a possibility, for sure, but no one can figure out why you can get water to freely flow in one direction, but not the other. That brings you back to air..

but.. you would have thought we burpped until dawn!

[Roger H]

Gina, is there a check valve of some sort in your gray tank vent tube? My Airstream was plumbed that way. If it's sticking, that would account for your symptoms.

Roger

[Gina D.]

I do not know. Where would I look and what would I look for?

[Joe Z]

Gina.....
I read your letter a few times and from what i am hearing it sounds like all your drains are emptying into the shower pan?.....If that's the case it sounds like you have a clog from the shower drain to the grey water tank.
Try taking the "P" Trap or whatever hookup you have there off at the shower and then snake it clean out to the grey tank.......The probable reason you can get water to flow one way and not the other is because the garden hose is under pressure and it pushes harder than just plain flowing water.....when the water flows from the sink and you have a slight clog past the shower it will take the path of least resistance and come out your shower......
The vent has separate tubing and that's why you can fill it from the vent
Sure hope that works and good luck
Joe

[Gina D.]

I have heard you shouldn't use drain decloggers in trailers, like Liquid Plumber or draino.

I don't think I have ever heard why you shouldn't tho. Its ABS and PVC, much like home. What is the reason it's different or damaging to trailers?

[Frederick L. Simson]

I've spent [b]all night awake trying to figure this out , but I don't believe I've got it.

If you can fill the tank from the sink, maybe there is [b]an obstruction in the P-trap or beyond in the shower drain?

[b]I THINK I'VE GOT IT!!!

The obstruction IS the vent pipe!

Phred's "Poop Sheets"

VENTING

Gas from decomposing sewage is supposed to vent out through a pipe that goes from tank top through the roof. Using the black tank as an example when you "hit the pedal," the gas that was building up in the tank should vent out through the roof. Your momentary opening of the tank shouldn't allow enough "feedback" into the RV to be noticeable--unless the tank was nearly full or the end of the vent pipe was under water and the gas had no place else to go.

[b]Vent pipes need to penetrate the top of the tank, but only an inch or so. All too often, they are sloppily installed and, after only a few miles of travel, begin to slip further down into the tank. Many manufacturers only use a putty-like material to hold these pipes in place. Incredible, but true. To their credit, though, if the thing were glued in, you'd have a hellova time getting it apart. Even if the pipes don't slip, as described here, they often leak.

In some cases, vent pipes are inserted down through the roof into the tank and just shoved on until they stop. (How much smarts do you expect from somebody who gets paid next to nothing for shoving a pipe in a hole?) In any case, if the end of the vent pipe is submerged, it won't vent.

How do you determine where the end of yours is? Sometimes easily, sometimes with great difficulty.

If you're lucky: Go to the roof, remove the cap on the vent and look for the end of the pipe. It should be nearly flush with the rooftop or a bit higher. This does not necessarily mean all is well (see below). If it's way down there someplace, or you can't even see it, it probably just slipped.

If you then go into the RV and to the back of the closet (or wherever they hid it), you might be able to grasp and twist and raise it. Don't do this too hastily. If you pull it all the way out, you can have a job getting it back in. If it's where it's supposed to be in relation to the rooftop, you might have an extra-long pipe (poor you).

If you're not lucky: You need to determine where the end of the pipe really is. Sometimes, if you have polyethylene tanks, the kind that are translucent, you can shine a very bright light against them and, looking through the opposite or side end of the tank, see the shadow of the usually black ABS-type pipe. If so, you lucked out and can adjust it.

Yours just happened in the GRAY tank, not the Black tank.

[Steve L.]

I'm with Mike and Frederick.

The gray water tanks aren't very tall. They're wide and long, but not very tall. If the vent attaches to the gray tank on the thin dimension of the tank they can act as if they're blocked and it seems as though the gray tank is filled.

A number of people have added little "jumper" vents (1/2" or so ID) from the tank to the vent stack to help this and improve drainage speeds. My recollection is that they're often clear vinyl so it's easy to run them.

(I toyed with the idea of suggesting you do a forum search , but then, you're a moderator and my name might end up on some sort of board junk filter , and besides, I can't swear I read the tips on this forum or the Casita Forum . For once, discretion ruled.)

[Roger H]

As much as it pains me to say it, I think you guys may be onto something here! That would certainly explain Gina's symptoms. Perhaps a good gentle pull on the vent pipe from the top would be in order? How would you know when you'd pulled it up "enough"?

(I toyed with the idea of suggesting you do a forum search , but then, you're a moderator and my name might end up on some sort of board junk filter , and besides, I can't swear I read the tips on this forum or the Casita Forum . For once, discretion ruled.)

Oh... and Steve... Not to worry... you're already on that "list". I saw to that a couple of years ago...

(just kidding... of course!)

Roger

[Suz]

Gina, I'm no expert and I don't even play one on TV, but I think that Mike and Fred (and Steve L) are most likely correct. I base this on some practical experience of my own.

Although I use a blue tote, the principal is the same because my trailer is plumbed and vented. It took me a while to figure it out, but now I recognize the symptoms when it starts to happen. When I forget to vent my blue tote (even with the vent on the top), the water fills the pipes then seeks the lowest point: shower floor. When I go out and open the blue tote, I hear a swish of air, followed by a rush of water. The water on the inside also drains a lot faster. This doesn't happen, of course when I have sewer connections because it has some place to go, but when there is a 'dead end' like the enclosed tank, the air has to have someplace to go before the water can take it place.