Yet another winterizing question

[ScamperGirl]

Hello everyone! I've read a lot of winterizing threads and they all provide very good information about running RV antifreeze through the pump and pipes. My question is: how necessary is this for a Scamp 13 without a water pump? I purchased my trailer in July and sanitized the fresh water tank shortly after purchase but haven't used the tank since. Do I need to run antifreeze through it? I do plan to pour some down the drain for the gray water tank but my city water connector is only a short blue hose under the sink. I'm not even sure how I would put antifreeze in there without disconnecting the tube. Is it necessary?
Thanks!

[Carol H]

No need to disconnect your city water hose from the P trap just pour some anti freeze down the drain - so it goes into the p trap that is under the sink and what the city water connects to.

re the water pump - even though you havent used it there may be water sitting in it. A friends pump wasnt winterized correctly and the pump did suffer damage. Anti freeze is cheap vs the replacement of a water pump.

[cpaharley2008]

I think she said she does not have a water pump, maybe she only has a city water connection? But why a fresh tank? Something does not add up?

[ScamperGirl]

Sorry, it seems like I'm confused! I do have city water and the built-in, 12 gallon holding tank that connects to the small lever faucet. I didn't think this was a pump but I suppose it is. I meant I don't have an electric pump as I don't have either a bathroom or hot water, but i do have a gray water tank. Does this help? Thanks!

[Raz]

You need antifreeze in the pump. If you can get the trailer attitude so it favors antifreeze entering the fresh water tank outlet that feeds the pump you will need less antifreeze. That is, if the outlet is toward the front of the trailer, lower the tongue. Raz

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

But why a fresh tank? Something does not add up?

Nope it didnt but where there is a fresh water tank there has to be a pump of one kind or another which is why I made the assumption there was one

[ScamperGirl]

So when you all say 'pump' you mean the manual faucet pump as opposed to an electric one? And Raz, I'll need to make sure I can pump antifreeze through it from the freshwater tank?

[cpaharley2008]

yes…. to your questions

[Thinh]

Here is my winterization of my 1300Trillium outdoor: 1/ Jack up the frame and let both wheels above ground with total 6 stands, leave axle free of weight 2/ Open the door, take all mattresses, foam to keep inside the house 3/ Open all cabinet doors, drain the water tank, unplug both ends of water pump, leave faucet drain pipe with open cap, 4/ Grease all door hinges and else 5/ Cover whole camper with tarp from.." head-to-toe ". With my diy winter-proof frame, snow pile up on roof would be no problem. When necessary, I could sneak inside, plug and run an electric heater with roof vent opened and sucking fan at work, mildew, humidity will be vented out. Just share with you....

[Dennis Clinton]

I'm at 7,000 ft and it gets COLD here. I have a 16' scamp with no electric pump. If you turn the handpump handle all the way up, it will drain the water from the line back to the tank. All I do is drain the tank completely and put a little antifreeze in the drain trap. On your city connection, take the cap off where the hose connects and open the inside valve-the water will drain out. Because of possible heavy snows, I try to keep the trailer in the carport. If it's in the open, I do have to clear the snow off of it if it gets more than 6" deep.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by ScamperGirl

Hello everyone! I've read a lot of winterizing threads and they all provide very good information about running RV antifreeze through the pump and pipes. My question is: how necessary is this for a Scamp 13 without a water pump? I purchased my trailer in July and sanitized the fresh water tank shortly after purchase but haven't used the tank since. Do I need to run antifreeze through it? I do plan to pour some down the drain for the gray water tank but my city water connector is only a short blue hose under the sink. I'm not even sure how I would put antifreeze in there without disconnecting the tube. Is it necessary?
Thanks!

I have the same water system you have. I wouldn't put that pink stuff in if I was you, and I don't.
Here's what I've done. I keep the fresh water tank mostly full, (80% to 90%) It takes a whole lot of cold to freeze that much water.
Second think I do is put an electric heater inside and keep the inside of the trailer at about 40° to 45°F. The water lines are all inside, actually the only water line. The drain to either the outside or a gray water tank is inside.
The heater keeps the inside above freezing (remember it takes several days of well below freezing to do any damage even without the heater.)

Since the water tank is full and NO pink crap the trailer is ready to go anytime. You get a week-end of nice weather in January, you can take off without worrying about water or pink crap.

[Carol H]

Byron that probable works well for you in your location and looking at the Op's it probable would as well, but unfortunately for those of us who are known to face a couple of weeks or more temps at 15 degrees and often way more below freezing at a time (add a little wind into it and its a lot colder) some might suggest the power wasted running the heater isnt really being very power wise. ;-) Dealing with the pink stuff is just a fact of life most of us have had to face using most of our lives in our northern summer cottage etc. Having to give the water tank a quick rinse out hasnt ever stopped me from hooking up the trailer and taking off on a nice winter week-end. But I dont drink the water from the tank anyways.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Byron that probable works well for you in your location and looking at the Op's it probable would as well, but unfortunately for those of us who are known to face a couple of weeks or more temps at 15 degrees and often way more below freezing at a time (add a little wind into it and its a lot colder) some might suggest the power wasted running the heater isnt really being very power wise. ;-) Dealing with the pink stuff is just a fact of life most of us have had to face using most of our lives in our northern summer cottage etc. Having to give the water tank a quick rinse out hasnt ever stopped me from hooking up the trailer and taking off on a nice winter week-end. But I dont drink the water from the tank anyways.

Since I like to get any time of year it'd still be worth the small amount it costs to heat my Scamp. If I didn't want to heat it I would simply drain the water tank, make sure I had the one and only water line drained. For many many years that's how RVs, mountain cabins, etc. were winterized. Then somebody came up the the pink stuff and convinced everybody to buy it. I would NOT ever use that nasty pink stuff.

FYI. I had also taken into account where the OP indicated she was located into consideration along with her description of her trailer, which is very much like mine.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

I would NOT ever use that nasty pink stuff.

Any chance you can provide evidence that RV antifreeze ( the stuff that is approved for use in RV water systems ) is "nasty"??
Not web anecdotes. Evidence.

baglo

[Cathi]

Last year we didn't use pink stuff and our toilet valve had some water in the bottom and cracked. Cost over $100 to replace. The RV guy said he had seen hundreds of cases of the toilet valve cracking. This year we are using pink stuff but not in the fresh water tank. Pumped in through city water fill in a few minutes to sinks and toilet with more poured down the drains.

That's nice if you can keep the trailer warm all winter but we are in storage with no electric.

[deryk]

I ordered one of these Camco 36153 RV Brass Blow Out Plug : Amazon.com : Automotive Im gonna give it a try, along with anti freeze getting poured down the kitchen and shower drain and replace the water in my porta potty with it.

If the weather isnt snowy Im up for taking my ParkLiner out for a weekend at my friends land down in the Pine Barens just to get away. Possibly useing a mr heater during the day if temps are below freezing so I can have running water, then switch to the furnace at night.....then on sunday afternoon, drain the water tank and grey water tak and use his compressor and blow out the lines take it home till the next adventure!

[rgrugg]

I wonder about the blowout idea regarding the pump because you put the blowout plug in the city water connection. No need for any of the pink stuff in the tanks if they're empty or very nearly so because there would be so much room for expansion. don't need it in the water heater either, if you drain it. As for the nasty taste, YES!!! Don't see how any unbiased test could prove anything since individual tastes can be so different. Remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[ScamperGirl]

Thanks Thinh for the photos and recommendations. I only recently learned, through another thread, about taking the weight off of the axle.

As to the pink stuff, I feel the same way as Byron and really don't want to put antifreeze into the fresh water tank if I can help it. But my Scamp stays in a storage yard so there's no possibility of running electric to it. In Franklin, TN, we usually only have 2-3 weeks of below freezing weather, and not necessarily in a row.

Byron doesn't add the pink stuff but he keeps a heater in his trailer. Is there anyone else with a similar water system who doesn't use a heater and also doesn't use the antifreeze? Especially in a climate like mine?

Thanks for all of the input so far, you all are very helpful!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by rgrugg

I wonder about the blowout idea regarding the pump because you put the blowout plug in the city water connection. No need for any of the pink stuff in the tanks if they're empty or very nearly so because there would be so much room for expansion. don't need it in the water heater either, if you drain it. As for the nasty taste, YES!!! Don't see how any unbiased test could prove anything since individual tastes can be so different. Remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Bob, the air blow out system is a very good option for those who happen to have an air compressor but even then there are a few places the air compressor does not reach or work well on and can leave the trailer subject to damage. Depending of course on how cold it gets and for how long.

How much damage depends greatly on what options the trailer has on it. As has been mentioned water pumps in kitchen areas, floors of showers (lots of people forget to dump anti freeze down those and turn on the pump) can hold water even though the lines going to them and out have been drained or blown out. You could as mention avoid using anti freeze in those if you are willing to disconnect the hoses going in and out of each of the pumps. Had not thought of the toilet foot pump but as has been pointed out here its another area of concern.

P traps in kitchen sinks and shower drains may not get completely blown out by an air compressor system. Had the experience with a cracked P trap in a camper a few years ago that had been blown out with an air compressor.

Hot water tanks are also designed in such a way that they do not completely drain out - if using air to blow out the system you need to also open up that tank and blow some air into the drain plug area to try and force whats water is left in it out. The winter prior to purchasing my Scamp in Idaho the previous owner had to replace the hot water tank even though he was *very* sure he had drained it prior to the cold weather coming and the tank is completely covered inside the trailer with a thick styrofoam cover.

Same with grey water tanks unless the trailer is tilted well over on the drain side it may continue to hold water and using the air compressor system isnt going to clear it out completely. Same with the fresh water tank unless its been drained with the tongue of the trailer well down (at least on Scamps) its a good bet it still has some water in it as well.

Agree the anti freeze does leave a smell and taste residue that in the perfect world it would be nice not to have to deal with but as mentioned if I have used it in my trailer during winter months I dont drink the water from the tank (often dont in the summer ether). It doesnt stop me from taking the trailer out in winter though. I will do a good rinse and clean of the tanks & water lines every spring though in case I do decide I need to drink the water and I dont notice any residue smell or taste once the tank and lines have had their annual cleaning.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by ScamperGirl

Thanks Thinh for the photos and recommendations. I only recently learned, through another thread, about taking the weight off of the axle.

As to the pink stuff, I feel the same way as Byron and really don't want to put antifreeze into the fresh water tank if I can help it. But my Scamp stays in a storage yard so there's no possibility of running electric to it. In Franklin, TN, we usually only have 2-3 weeks of below freezing weather, and not necessarily in a row.

Byron doesn't add the pink stuff but he keeps a heater in his trailer. Is there anyone else with a similar water system who doesn't use a heater and also doesn't use the antifreeze? Especially in a climate like mine?

Thanks for all of the input so far, you all are very helpful!

If I couldn't put heat in the trailer I would drain the tank and leave the drain valve open. Pump all the water I could out of through the pump after the tank was drained. Leave the pump handle in forward position (this will allow any water in the pump to drain back down the line).

The concern would mostly be freezing the pump and cracking it. Freezing the little bit water in bottom of the tank and what little would be left in the vinyl water line isn't going to do any damage since there's enough expansion space and flexibility to accommodate it.