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Roy in TO 05-08-2006 03:18 PM

For the trailer I'm buying off ebay the seller sent me a picture of the front and back of what they called "Title".

I brought the picture over to my local motor vehicle office to make sure it would be Ok to use to transfer up here in Ontario. The individual at the counter looked at the document and said "Shis is a registration, and not a title. You need a registration"

When I got back I looked at the form a little closer. The top line reads:

New York State Registration Receipt

Above the owners name the word "TRANSFERABLE" is typed. On the back of the form it reads:

VEHICLE TRANSFER INFORMATION
...
If the front of this document says TRANSFERABLE, complete the items below and give it to the new owner.

So is this a title or not? What does a title look like? (pictures appreciated)

Thanks,
Roy

Bob Cupp 05-08-2006 06:45 PM

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/st...default/94.gif
Hello Roy and welcome to the addictive world of fiberglass travel trailers.

Here in Wisconsin, there is a difference between a title and a registration. A title is a document that proves "OWNERSHIP" and a registration proves that you gave the government some money to operate the vehicle on the roads. When I bought my Love Bug I immediately transfered the title but waited until I finished my rehab to get the license plates for it. When you get the license plates they give us the "CERTIFICATE OF REGISTRATION," with license plates. They are 2 different documents here.

In WI truck plates were transferable from owner to owner but the gov't stopped that because they could sell NEW plates to the new owner.

Joe MacDonald 05-08-2006 07:20 PM

Hey Roy, you might want to try out these guys if your seller can't come up with a real title.
Don't even think of trying to come back across without one, Canada Customs is really brutal about the paperwork for any vehicle crossing the border. Unless the seller is delivering it for you, you'll just get a lot grayer

Roy in TO 05-08-2006 08:01 PM

Quote:

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/st...default/94.gif
Hello Roy and welcome to the addictive world of fiberglass travel trailers.

Here in Wisconsin, there is a difference between a title and a registration. A title is a document that proves "OWNERSHIP" and a registration proves that you gave the government some money to operate the vehicle on the roads. When I bought my Love Bug I immediately transfered the title but waited until I finished my rehab to get the license plates for it. When you get the license plates they give us the "CERTIFICATE OF REGISTRATION," with license plates. They are 2 different documents here.

In WI truck plates were transferable from owner to owner but the gov't stopped that because they could sell NEW plates to the new owner.
Thanks for the welcome Bob,

That is similar to here in Ontario. It is one document with 2 halves. The vehicle portion which says you own it and have paid taxes on it. The second half says whether or not it is plated. Since we have plate to owner, when you sell the vehicle, you give the buyer the vehicle half and keep the plate half with the licence plate which can be returned or transfered to use on another vehicle.

In your case they would have printed the document saying *UNPLATED* on the vehicle half and on the plate half. When you got the licence plates they take the original document and issue a new one with the plate #'s on it.

I'm learning that many states do not require title transfer on the older eggs because they are under a certain weight (2-3000 lbs) or age (1980-90). That makes transfer difficult for someone not from a state requiring title or ownership.

I'll post links to the rules in my response to Joe's post.

Roy

Roy in TO 05-08-2006 08:40 PM

Quote:

Hey Roy, you might want to try out these guys if your seller can't come up with a real title.
Don't even think of trying to come back across without one, Canada Customs is really brutal about the paperwork for any vehicle crossing the border. Unless the seller is delivering it for you, you'll just get a lot grayer
Thanks Joe,

Looks interesting! Has anybody used them? I'd be worried about not getting anything back after signing the vehicle over to them and they end up owning my property.

As for coming back across the border, I'm learning the difficulty. I'll post links for others to see in the future. The info applies to trailers, motorized vehicles have even more red tape.


Here is Ontario's "To Do" checklist for vehicles out of province.

If the trailer is less than 15 years old, one has to apply to the Registrar of Imported Vehicles to bring it into Canada. Fees of up to $224 may apply.

Then you have to deal with Canada Border Services who have put together this 14 page PDF document.

I am supposed to obtain a recall clearance letter from the manufacturer stating the vehicle has had no recalls or lists the defects. Still not sure how that works since Boler has been out of business for a while. I'll post that info once I find out. Does anyone know where the Boler "American" was built?

If any body has seen my wreck they will get a chuckle out of this requirement:
"Soil and related matter can carry pests harmful
to Canadian agriculture. The Canadian Food
Inspection Agency (CFIA) requires that you wash
any sand, soil, earth, and plant residue from your
passenger and recreational vehicles, including the
undercarriage, before you import them. This
requirement applies to all used vehicles, regardless
of origin." http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/st...efault/l31.gif

Here is the kicker, the gov't has contracted Canadian Tire to perform all imported vehicle safety inspections. I'm currently in the courts seeking damages from Canadian Tire for botching a safety inspection and missing 3 items on a safety inspection. The most serious was a major power steering component failure within the 1st 100km.

Roy

Pete Dumbleton 05-08-2006 11:39 PM

Some states don't title "trailers" under a given weight -- Ownership transfer is by registration and bill of sale. The problem happens when YOUR state wants a title and the other state doesn't furnish one. I had that problem between Vermont (no trailer title under 1,000 lbs) and Florida (also no small trailer titles BUT something like a Scamp is defined as an RV and needs a title).

You have to go to your state gummint's appropriate office and ask what is needed for ownership transfer from another state.

Joe MacDonald 05-09-2006 07:17 AM

I haven't personally used the titling service, but it came recommended from a few people I trust.
I recently went through unbelievable contortions trying to bring a re-built Dnepr motorcycle into Canada, Finally got it in after being turned back at the border once, making an extra trip from Buffalo to Cleveland and back, and then spending 4 hours at customs on the Can. side going through the paperwork.
This is when I found about its-title.
Just a bit late

Victor Benz 05-09-2006 10:52 AM

Roy;

I just bought & brought a 1982 Fiber Stream into Alberta from Montana (April 29,2006) and had absolutely no problem.

Key points:
1. It was more than 15 years old, and therefore exempt from any checks in Canada.
2. I found a bill of sale form on the Montana DMV site, and used it. In it was a section that the seller signed, certifying the vehicle was free of all security interests and encomberances.
3. The seller had a Montana Certificate of Title from the previous owner, and on the back, the section was filled out transfering ownership to them.
4. The biggest challenge I had was finding the CORRECT VIN number. There were numerous state registration stickers in varoius places, but we eventually found a very faded manufacturer's sticker. This is the number on the title document, and was put in the bill of sale.
5. The trailer had permanent trailer plates that I used to get the trailer home.
6. At the border, completed bill of sale plus the trailer title was all I neded to get a completed vehicle import form, allowing me to license the trailer in Canada.

I am now personalizing this trailer while it sits in my driveway. I have all the documents I need to put plates on it when I'm done.

Roy in TO 05-09-2006 10:35 PM

Quote:

Roy;

I just bought & brought a 1982 Fiber Stream into Alberta from Montana (April 29,2006) and had absolutely no problem.

Key points:
1. It was more than 15 years old, and therefore exempt from any checks in Canada.
2. I found a bill of sale form on the Montana DMV site, and used it. In it was a section that the seller signed, certifying the vehicle was [b]free of all security interests and encomberances.
3. The seller had a Montana Certificate of Title from the previous owner, and on the back, the section was filled out transfering ownership to them.
4. The biggest challenge I had was finding the CORRECT VIN number. There were numerous state registration stickers in varoius places, but we eventually found a very faded manufacturer's sticker. This is the number on the title document, and was put in the bill of sale.
5. The trailer had permanent trailer plates that I used to get the trailer home.
6. At the border, completed bill of sale plus the trailer title was all I neded to get a completed vehicle import form, allowing me to license the trailer in Canada.

I am now personalizing this trailer while it sits in my driveway. I have all the documents I need to put plates on it when I'm done.
I think the key difference here is that this seller only has the registration form for the previous owner, which qualifies as title in NY, but is NOT the title. The back of the document was filled out to the transfer ownership and registration to the seller who never registered it in CT because CT does not require title transfer under 2000 lbs.

Did you have to let US customs know you were eporting the trailer 72 hours in advance as they say?

Did you have to get it checked by CDN Tire? My understanding is that you have to register it locally within 45 days as fit.

How long did it take to get the vehicle import form completed?

Roy

Brian B-P 05-10-2006 01:00 PM

Quote:

...Here is the kicker, the gov't has contracted Canadian Tire to perform all imported vehicle safety inspections. I'm currently in the courts seeking damages from Canadian Tire for botching a safety inspection and missing 3 items on a safety inspection. The most serious was a major power steering component failure within the 1st 100km.
I would not use Canadian Tire for any automotive repair work, or believe anything they said in an inspection; however, my parents had a couple of cars maintained by the local Canadian Tire shop in their town for years, and were quite statisfied.

I did use Canadian Tire to do a required inspection of car, but only because I knew they would do a superficial job and not report the stuff that I was okay with, but was not in standard condition - it was a race-prepared but still streetable car.

The only automotive shop I really trust is owned and operated by someone I personally know. Everyone else is assumed to be incompetent, which is generally not true of course, but is the safest assumption.

I would address the trailer inspection issue by paying for the Canadian Tire inspection as if it were a tax, encouraging their staff to do as little as possible, then doing the real inspection myself.

Roy, you're completely rebuilding this Boler anyway, right?

Roy in TO 05-10-2006 08:21 PM

Quote:

I would address the trailer inspection issue by paying for the Canadian Tire inspection as if it were a tax
That is a good way of thinking of it, Brian. Thanks for the attitude adjustment.
Roy

Joe MacDonald 05-11-2006 07:25 AM

It doesn't have to be Canadian tire, anyone who can do a mechanical fitness will suffice.
The government merely list Canadian tire as a source.
And if I'm not mistaken, although it doesn't specifically state it, you can always bring the trailer over, register it as unplated(unfit) and take your time getting it ready.
I had my bike for 9 months before I got it certified, and no-one was banging on my door.

Roy in TO 05-11-2006 03:45 PM

Quote:

It doesn't have to be Canadian tire, anyone who can do a mechanical fitness will suffice.
The government merely list Canadian tire as a source.
And if I'm not mistaken, although it doesn't specifically state it, you can always bring the trailer over, register it as unplated(unfit) and take your time getting it ready.
I had my bike for 9 months before I got it certified, and no-one was banging on my door.
I'm not so sure about that Joe. The only thing I can think of is whether or not the vehicle has to go through the new RIV (Registrar of Imported Vehicles) process. If so the instructions at:
http://www.riv.ca/pdfs/LI_RIV_E.pdf
say "The RIV has contracted Canadian Tire, with 430
locations across Canada, to perform our federal
inspections.
I'm hoping that since the trailer is over 15 years old and exempt from the RIV requirements that I don't have to use Canadian Tire.

Oops, quick correction. Just read this in the document above:
"The Registrar of Imported Vehicles has also
contracted a number of independent inspection
facilities to perform the federal inspection. A list
of these facilities will be included in the mail out
of your inspection package"

Yee haw, that means I don't have to step foot into a Cr*ppy Tire service department. Made my day, better yet, made my month!

Roy

Victor Benz 05-11-2006 04:19 PM

Quote:

Did you have to let US customs know you were eporting the trailer 72 hours in advance as they say?

Did you have to get it checked by CDN Tire? My understanding is that you have to register it locally within 45 days as fit.

How long did it take to get the vehicle import form completed?

Roy
I did not talk to US Customs when exiting, only when entering Montana. The US CUstoms Agent checked our documentation, and wished us well. He never asked where we were headed, or what we were doing in the US, questions I always get when flying to the US.

I checked the trailer myself. Canadian Tire is NOT qualified to check RVs. I would only consider a qualified trailer shop. In Alberta, all vehicles require an inspection certificate from Alberta Infrastructure for all first-time Alberta registrations. Travel Trailers are exempt.

There is no "45 day" requirement. in Alberta, even for powered vehicles. They often need work before they can be accepted as road worthy.

The import form was completed by me in 5 minutes while the Canadian Customs agent checked the trailer.

Mary Gessert 05-14-2006 06:15 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

For the trailer I'm buying off ebay the seller sent me a picture of the front and back of what they called "Title".

I brought the picture over to my local motor vehicle office to make sure it would be Ok to use to transfer up here in Ontario. The individual at the counter looked at the document and said "Shis is a registration, and not a title. You need a registration"

When I got back I looked at the form a little closer. The top line reads:

New York State Registration Receipt

Above the owners name the word "TRANSFERABLE" is typed. On the back of the form it reads:

VEHICLE TRANSFER INFORMATION
...
If the front of this document says TRANSFERABLE, complete the items below and give it to the new owner.

So is this a title or not? What does a title look like? (pictures appreciated)

Thanks,
Roy
That is not the title, it is the registration. I moved my Scamp from WI to NY a year ago. My new NY title reads "Certificate of Title" at the top with "New York State" underneath. It has a blue border which reads "Void if Altered" on each side and "Department of Motor Vehicles" on the bottom. The registration is a receipt and is to be kept with the vehicle. Therefore, a thief could have the registration but would not have the Certificate of Title. I will try to take a photo and post it to the list for you.


Attachment 2978

Roy in TO 05-14-2006 07:41 AM

Quote:

That is not the title, it is the registration. I moved my Scamp from WI to NY a year ago. My new NY title reads "Certificate of Title" at the top with "New York State" underneath. It has a blue border which reads "Void if Altered" on each side and "Department of Motor Vehicles" on the bottom. The registration is a receipt and is to be kept with the vehicle. Therefore, a thief could have the registration but would not have the Certificate of Title. I will try to take a photo and post it to the list for you.
Thank you Mary!
Your information is a big help!
Roy


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