Fiberglass RV

Fiberglass RV (http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/)
-   Care and Feeding of Molded Fiberglass Trailers (http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f54/)
-   -   Window gasket clarification (http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f54/window-gasket-clarification-40583.html)

Amy M 11-30-2009 10:22 AM

I need to take out the jalousie windows and the window over the stove in my 1977 Boler, which I am sure has the original windows. The rubber parts are all bad and need replacement. I have called Vintage Trailer Supply, Interstate Metal Fabricators and Pelland, and none of them could tell me what parts I need without seeing a photo or a sample of what I already have. I will do this if I have to, but it seems that someone here must know what I need without going through that rigamarole. I have found old threads, but I just want to be completely clear before I order anything.


Is this the part for the jalousies?

http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/Hehr_S..._p/vts-199x.htm

Is this the part for the little windows?

http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/Hehr_S..._p/vts-195x.htm

Thanks.

Raya 11-30-2009 12:17 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Hi Amy,

If you have the "usual" small jalousie windows over the stove and in the door, then yes, I believe those two gaskets are the ones you want.

This photo shows a typical (Hehr brand, I believe) door window. You can see the backframe gasket. It slips on before the window is re-installed, and takes the place of any sealant (so, no butyl needed on these windows, although possibly you might put a dab of caulk on the joint where the two ends of the gasket meet, depending on how they fit):


Attachment 25298


Here you can see the second gasket you showed, going around the oval part. In this case it is a bit shrunken:


Attachment 25299


Note that the larger ones (dinette) don't use the backframe gasket, but instead you'll use your own sealant (I would choose butyl tape).

Actually, the dinette windows I've seen don't use the second gasket you showed either (maybe you know this). I think Vintage does also have the flap seals for the dinette windows too though.

Going to town! :gitrd

Raya

Amy M 11-30-2009 03:08 PM

Okay, I am back to being confused. So *both* of the links I posted are for the little flap windows and *neither* are for the big 2-flap windows next to the dinette? Darn. I was okay with buying one huge length for two little windows, but it's harder to swallow buying 48 feet of gasket material for two little windows.

So I need one more type of rubber thing for the bigger jalousie windows, or two more things?



Quote:

Hi Amy,

If you have the "usual" small jalousie windows over the stove and in the door, then yes, I believe those two gaskets are the ones you want.

This photo shows a typical (Hehr brand, I believe) door window. You can see the backframe gasket. It slips on before the window is re-installed, and takes the place of any sealant (so, no butyl needed on these windows, although possibly you might put a dab of caulk on the joint where the two ends of the gasket meet, depending on how they fit):


Attachment 25298


Here you can see the second gasket you showed, going around the oval part. In this case it is a bit shrunken:


Attachment 25299


Note that the larger ones (dinette) don't use the backframe gasket, but instead you'll use your own sealant (I would choose butyl tape).

Actually, the dinette windows I've seen don't use the second gasket you showed either (maybe you know this). I think Vintage does also have the flap seals for the dinette windows too though.

Going to town! :gitrd

Raya

Raya 11-30-2009 03:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi Amy,

Yeah, it is a shame they only sell it in such long lengths.

I have seen more than one brand of jalousie windows used as the larger ones (dinette) on the 70s Bolers. My 1974 from Winnipeg uses Burdick brand windows, and then I have also seen another type (they look the same but are not exactly the same in interior details). That said, neither of those would use either of the two gaskets you posted.

1) The backframe gasket: This goes in between the small windows and the trailer. There isn't a gasket that does that on the larger windows; you use caulk or butyl tape.

2) The "glass seal." You can take a look at your dinette windows, but I don't think you'll find this seal on them.

It might be confusing because Vintage lists the above parts as being for "Hehr Standard" windows. But the thing is that doesn't mean they are the standard gaskets for all Hehr windows, like it sounds; rather, Hehr called the style of window that we have in our kitchen and on the door "Standard windows."

Now I have seen the "glass seal" type bead at other places, but I have not found the true backframe gasket anywhere else (there is some "modern" gasket other places that sticks on the front and then you use sealer on the back, but I like the authentic backframe gasket).

Edited to add:
The dinette windows (that I have) have a larger flap at the top, that looks like the Vintage "Header and sill seal." (see below). Then they also have a smaller flap on the inside bottom of each pane. Then at the bottom there is another smaller flap. I think you would want to access these flaps enough to get a good look at them, and a photo or measurement. I have a feeling they are obtainable once you know what you want (and, you can also get new "operators" (handles and gears) if yours do not work well.

I think that once you've camped with the jalousie windows you will really enjoy them :yep It's amazing what sort of weather you can keep them partially open in, without any rain coming inside.

I see some profiles at Pellandent.com that look like they might be the right ones, but it's pouring rain here so I can't check.

I also saw a couple at Interstate metals, but I think the selection at Pellandent might be better.

*Here is a photo of Vintage's "Header and sill seal." This looks like (but have not measured) the flap seal at the top of my dinette windows.


Attachment 25305


Maybe you could post a photo of your dinette window details? Especially if they are different than what I'm describing.

Raya

Alf S. 11-30-2009 04:20 PM

Hi: Amy M... While you are ordering from Vintage T.S. get one or two of the nylon friction pads for the small windows "crooked little operator". The pad is the part inside the vertical center tube and it snaps through the end of the operator arm and slides up and down as the window opens and closes. A tip for installing the backframe gasket around the outside edge of the window is NOT to cut through the gasket completely at each corner...but to snip a "V" out of the black gasket so it rounds the corner of the window frame continiously. I found that the worst leak I had in that window was at the lower corner of the window frame as the gasket was cut on a 45* angle and a gap had opened there. You will need to use some butyl tape along the top edge of the window where the flange is riveted to the fiberglass. I hope you can understand my descriptions.
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie :wave

Raya 11-30-2009 04:33 PM

Ah, right, because I suppose the backframe gasket does not run behind the top of the window (no place for it to wrap around to!). Thank you for mentioning that.

What I should have said was "not to use butyl on the same surfaces that use the backframe gasket."

Alf, did you find/buy any of the sill seals for the larger jalousies in the dinette area?

Raya

PS: I was just laughing to myself not an hour ago about the name "crooked little operator" in the Vintage catalog :laugh

Alf S. 11-30-2009 05:10 PM

Hi: Raya... I did buy a roll of the bulb seal which is the gasket the dinette windows large panes squeeze up to at the bottom when shut. I also bought the fuzzy seal to replace the sides of the door window, and a piece of the material to cut new retainer discs for the glass, as the door of our '77 Boler had a 4pane window in it. I never got to use the bulb seal as we bought the Escape 5.0 and then sold the Boler within 20 min's. of posting it for sale.
I let all the gaskets/seals and a pair of replacement taillight lenses go with the Boler and now I wish I'd kept them as I have acquired a project Boler to rebuild!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie :wave

Raya 11-30-2009 06:00 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Hi: Raya... I did buy a roll of the bulb seal which is the gasket the dinette windows large panes squeeze up to at the bottom when shut.

Hi Al,

So did that bulb seal match what was in there originally? It doesn't look like what's in mine, unless it's really, really deformed (raining too hard to double check). I think mine looks more like what they are calling "Jalousie J seal." It's more of a "flat" piece (in other words, not a tube like a bulb).

For reference, here is a photo of the "bulb seal" from Vintage. Is this what you used, and did it match what you took out?:


Attachment 25312


And here is one of the "J seal" from Vintage (this looks more like what is under the flaps in my dinette windows, although it's raining to hard to go look now):


Attachment 25311


I also bought the fuzzy seal to replace the sides of the door window,
and a piece of the material to cut new retainer discs for the glass, as the door of our '77 Boler had a 4pane window in it.

Okay, so that was not the "typical" window, like the one over the stove and the one I showed previously in the thread, right?

It's great to get this figured out and written down for future reference. I've always wished there were more exact details on which seals to use where, and etc. for thse windows. I'd like to keep mine in good shape. You did a nice job on your Boler window (that you posted a photo of in another thread) :thumb

Enjoy your new project!

Amy M 11-30-2009 06:23 PM

I am going to have to take some photos, I think. But now I have a new worry. I went out to inspect them a little more thoroughly, and I am worried I will not even be able to remove the flat strips that border the dinette windows. They are so hard. And a couple of them have the entire flat part broken off, leaving only the t-shaped top embedded in the groove, but not much of anything to grab.

Is is possible to be unable to remove the rubber parts due to hardening? I want to order parts before taking out windows, but I don't want to be stuck with a bunch of expensive gasket rubber if the whole project is doomed. I don't think I could try to take out the rubber parts before removing windows, but maybe.

Raya 11-30-2009 06:39 PM

Hi Amy,

I doubt your windows are doomed, although I know how frustrating it can be when you are in a Catch 22 of which thing to do first :splat

First off, on the small windows, I think we have determined (from looking and from Al) that Vintage's Standard backframe gasket and Standard glass seal are the way to go for those windows. As Al mentioned, you can also get the nylon glider piece that fits on the operator arm if you want to.

For the larger windows' seals, I think I would try heating up the rubber with a hairdryer, or, (very carefully) with a heat gun. I say that because I know that putting the rubber in hot water will make it softer and more flexible. Pouring warm water on it is another idea.

Needle-nosed plyers or a dental pick might help you to grab little ends.

You could also try putting a little bit of stamp pad ink, or maybe magic marker on the "profile" end of the rubber, and then "stamping" the shape onto an index card so that you can measure it, but I think I would go the removal route. Hopefully you can save at least a little bit of the full profile in order to measure it for new (if not, I may be able to compare mine to yours with some photos - mine still have their flaps).

And, since you know you need to re-seal (behind) the two dinette windows anyway, why not remove them and just tape heavy plastic over the openings? Then you can work on them inside, on a work bench :yep

And of course.... photos are most welcome!

Raya

Amy M 11-30-2009 07:19 PM

Raya, is this the one you think might be the one for the dinette windows?

http://www.pellandent.com/Motorhome_Produc...?ProductID=4095

Alf S. 11-30-2009 07:24 PM

Hi: Raya et al... I also bought the J seal but it is TOO small and wouldn't stay in the slot. Some times a little buttering up is required to remove/install the seals as when the windows are Mfg'd they crimp the ends of the slots so the gaskets won't come out on their own.
The reason there is more stuff avail. for the little Hehr window is it was used extensively on Airstreams and more of those exist today. I was just happy to find a market source so readily avail. to get most of what I needed. The nylon friction pads I was told, were extinct but Steve at V.T.S. has had them reproduced as there is a market niche there.
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie :wave p.s. The Jalousie Header and Sill Seal is correct but again I didn't get time to install them.

Raya 11-30-2009 07:30 PM

That looks something like the header seal (flap at top). Vintage also has one that looks right. I would want to measure and compare because they are different from each other.

The Pellandent one is 3/4" of an inch long, and looks a bit curved. It also has an "I" shape at the top.

The one on Vintage is 7/8" long and looks flatter. It does not have an "I" shape at the top, but more of a "square J." I would lean towards this one as matching my originals, because I don't think mine has the "I" beam at the top.

When it stops raining I'll take a closer look at mine. Maybe you could check yours too.

Raya

Amy M 12-01-2009 09:47 AM

Here's another question:

Which of the gaskets and seals are necessary for sealing versus decorative?

It seems that the backframe gasket for the small windows is necessary. But my small windows don't have the small seal on the outside around the window frame.

And there are the strips around the perimeter of the dinette. Necessary? I am missing those in some areas. Are the ones that slide in at the bottom of the window flaps necessary?

Now I am gathering that there is a third bulb gasket under the window when it closes. Necessary?

I am mostly wondering what is necessary so if I end up taking a window out without ordering parts first and want to put it back in, could I do that without risking major leakage? Or are these things (other than the backframe gasket) involved at preventing leaks at all?

Alf S. 12-01-2009 10:21 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi: Amy M... I think the purpose of some of the seals& gaskets are twofold. Keeps out water 'n dust. The back gasket on the little window seals against the fiberglass and also as you crank it shut against the inside of the glass. The grey one around the outside oval frame keeps the water out and holds the glass tight in the window. I just wish I had taken more Pic's as I did the windows but I'm going to have a second chance as my next project is scheduled to arrive Thur.
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie :wave

Raya 12-01-2009 11:13 AM

I would say that the only ones that are really optional are the (relatively) flat, black plastic strips that cover the mounting fastener holes on the larger dinette windows. These would be going around the perimeter of the window (in other words, these are the ones you would remove in order to get to the screws or rivets that are holding your windows in).

As far as the other ones go, they are there for the reasons Al mentions, i.e. to keep out water and/or dust.

Of course, except for the backframe gasket on the small windows, you could change/add most of the other ones with the windows in place, if you had to.

But if you're removing the windows, what's the rush to put them back in (maybe you are going on a camping trip?). With good heavy plastic taped on with that outdoor tape you bought, I would think you could keep the windows out for a relatively long time. Just be sure to wipe down with alcohol or etc. first so the tape is not going onto dirty fiberglass.

And really, if you needed to put the windows back in temporarily and then remove them again, it wouldn't be the end of the world. I think you'll find that once you have them in and out once, it's not that difficult (always hardest the first time). If you're not driving down the highway with the camper, then the jalousie windows are not prone to leakage as long as you have the perimeter sealed, and perhaps that top flap gasket in place. After all, you can leave them open 24/7 without water coming in as long as you are not driving, or in a hurricane.

If it were me, I'd plan it for a time when there were no camping trips coming up, remove the windows, secure the openings in the camper, and then rebuild the windows at my leisure, inside the house, on a workbench or table. I would order the gaskets once I was able to see what was on the existing window and get the right sizes (the dinette windows are not 100% sure yet from what I can tell).

On the other hand, you could go ahead and order the parts for the small windows, since those have already been sussed out.


davis 08-26-2012 10:58 PM

Sorry for brig up an old thread, but what was the final result in the seals needed to rebuild the hehr windows?

Donna D. 08-28-2012 03:35 AM

Unfortunately, we may never know. Amy had Last Activity: 11-03-2010 07:58 PM and Raya Last Activity: 03-07-2011 12:38 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.