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-   -   Fuse bank melted (http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f95/fuse-bank-melted-60032.html)

glennco 07-29-2013 09:35 PM

Fuse bank melted
 
1 Attachment(s)
Evening all,


Well the last couple times we used our scamp I found that the fuse to the battery in the fuse panel had blown. After it was blown none of my 12v lights or appliances would function. I finally had a chance to start investigating and found a melted fuse panel

Here's what I know so far:

1: the PO replaced the 'American' converter with a PD not purchased from scamp last year.

2: Last time I changed that 20amp fuse, I noticed the fuse block was moving a tiny amount on the board.

Questions:
The schematic shows an inline fuse off of the battery but so far I haven't found one. Can someone tell me where this inline fuse is on the scamp SD models?

The schematic appears to show that the 12v lights should function even if there are issues with the fuse panel, but with that 20v fuse on the panel blown, the 12 v lights don't function. Is that typical, or did someone mess with the wiring somewhere along the way?

Based on the fuse block failure, I'm believing I was an issue with the block itself. Anyone have other things I should check?

Please enjoy the photo I snapped of my melted fuse panel, and thanks so much for the help as always,

Paul

lamimartin 07-29-2013 09:56 PM

Hi Paul,
As you suspected, some bad contact or corrosion appear to have created conditions for a resistance that went hot or sparked and burned the fuse panel. Note that battery Inline fuse are often replaced by a auto reset breaker such as this one: http://www.iboatsimages.com/mall/ima...reaker_4_1.jpg so sparks on connecting the battery or very short power surge will not cut the main power.

I often found out RV power converters are not equipped with intelligent chargers. Consequently, they often overcharge the batteries and cause them to boil and dry out. If your power converter is not equpped with an automatic charger a dried battery may simply overheat and self destruct. A shorted battery is likely to blow the fuses between the battery and the power converter charger. Maybe not, but I suggest you check the specs of your power converter and make sure you only use an automatic battery charger to protect your battery, switching your battery in line only when your don't have AC available.

Ron in BC 07-29-2013 10:01 PM

It looks to me like the hallmarks of poor contact resulting in high resistance and leading to a build-up of heat. :(

On my 13 FB the fuse you mention was located inside right after the wires entered through the wall from the tongue. It was with all the twist connectors that connect the hitch wiring to the interior trailer wiring.

glennco 07-30-2013 08:32 AM

I'm currently waiting for a callback from scamp regarding ordering a new panel. Looks like scamp has moved to PD as a vendor, so hopefully the new panel will be high quality.

Anyone have any advice on replacing a panel?

Carol H 07-30-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glennco (Post 406828)
Questions:
The schematic shows an inline fuse off of the battery but so far I haven't found one. Can someone tell me where this inline fuse is on the scamp SD models?

I dont have a SD but the inline fuses should be in the same location. One outside at the battery and the other inside the trailer like Ron suggests at the point the wiring harness etc comes into the trailer. When I obtained my trailer I had to locate mine as someone hooked up my new battery incorrectly - they did not have the positive to Black as it should be. The inline fuse on mine was buried behind the rat fur and covered in tape making it hard to see or tell apart from all the other connections in that area. Had to put a slice in the rat fur to get at it all.

glennco 07-30-2013 04:40 PM

Well, I talked to the folks at scamp today, they stated that they don't have a fuse in the fuse panel that goes directly to the battery. They're recommending I trace my wires to determine what is being controlled by that main wire.

In general they weren't very helpful, but I understand their predicament when someone call from another state asking how the trailer is supposed to be wired.

They do believe I should trace the wires coming out of the fuse block to determine that one of them is not my culprit. Time consuming, but at least I'll know how the camper is wired.

Ironically I bought a newer camper because I didn't want to deal with these issues with an 11 mo old running around. It severely limits the time I can dedicate to this repair job

stevebaz 07-30-2013 05:09 PM

It is interesting that it is melted on the supply side. If on the other side of the fuse the fuse would have blown. The other thing that worries me is why do you have a white wire hooked up to that first fuse? the other wires were color coded red or have black wrap indicating hot leads so why the white wire?

glennco 07-30-2013 09:24 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Well, I was able to trace the origin of the white wire. That wire is actually white with black and goes directly to the battery. There is no in-line fuse outside the scamp, and I can not find one in the front closet. I was able to find where that line comes through the fiberglass, and it does not split or have a fuse prior to going underneath the bathroom.

It appears that white/black wire is also carrying charge back to the battery from the converter, which can be seen as the 10awg yellow wire going into the top of the board.

My current hypothesis is that when the old converter burned out, someone ran a new hot wire from the battery back to the fuse panel, and now the fuse panel is required for everything.

Another odd wrinkle I found, I looked at the hot connection on the bardman, and it is in rough shape. There was no continuity between that connection and the battery + cable. I also found that there isn't any power coming from the power side of my TV any longer, and my 30amp breaker for that hot wire is currently fried.

I'm attaching a pic of the back side of the fuse panel that melted, as well as a sheet of paper that came with the camper which shows the layout of the fuses.

If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate hearing them, and hopefully someone with more experience can guide me in the right direction for continued troubleshooting.

Thanks,

Paul

Bob Miller 07-30-2013 09:48 PM

Between changes that the p.o. made and unknown wiring issues and a very difficult to accomplish melt down, I would sleep better at night only after I had pulled everything out and installed a new power chassis and fuse block system. My weapon of choice for that task has always been the Progressive Dynamics PD-4045.

It will provide a new 45 amp converter, a smart charger for the battery, new AC distribution panel and a 12 fuse panel with pigtails all ready for your existing and future circuits. Well under $200 on-line and about a 3-4 install time should put everything behind you.




Jared J 07-31-2013 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Miller (Post 407105)
Between changes that the p.o. made and unknown wiring issues and a very difficult to accomplish melt down, I would sleep better at night only after I had pulled everything out and installed a new power chassis and fuse block system. My weapon of choice for that task has always been the Progressive Dynamics PD-4045.

It will provide a new 45 amp converter, a smart charger for the battery, new AC distribution panel and a 12 fuse panel with pigtails all ready for your existing and future circuits. Well under $200 on-line and about a 3-4 install time should put everything behind you.

Unfortunately, I'm with him. I would ring out every wire for continuity and to every possible hot accessory, and to ground before installing, also. It sucks, but without fully checking, the next time could be much worse. I think you have a short to ground on the hot supply side from what I'm picking up, and it's fried the hell out of your hot side. If I was a betting man, the no tow vehicle power, bad continuity in the harness, bad circuit breaker, and fried fuse panel, were all caused by the same thing.

glennco 07-31-2013 07:50 AM

I'm thinking I agree with you all. To determine if the issue is just with the fuse panel, I need to test each circuit coming off the board to see if they short to ground anywhere, the. I need to install a new panel, and converter just to be safe.

The 4045 seems like an excellent unit, it's a bit larger than the unit that's in there now, as well as a heavier due to the integrated converter. I'll likely need to fab up something for it to mount appropriately.

Question on troubleshooting the wiring. Do these campers ground to the frame at all, or does everything just go back to the battery?

Thanks again for all the help!

Paul

Jared J 07-31-2013 07:56 AM

There may be a ground to the frame, but it should all be done through the wiring. I'm 99% sure they all were grounded through the wiring out of the factory, and 100% all trailers should be. Frame grounds are the biggest problem in trailer wiring, along with scotch-locks. I would say the two of them account for 90% of the wiring problems I've dealt with on trailers.

stevebaz 07-31-2013 08:49 AM

If you have trailer brakes and a breakaway switch you need a ground from the battery to the frame. Scamp ties the brake ground to the frame when hooked up to tow. The tug provides the ground and power during the tow and in the event of a brakeway the power switch is pulled and power from the battery provides braking to stop the trailer. since there is no tug the ground has to come from the battery to the frame to provide the negative side to the brakes. Without trailer brakes and a breakaway switch there would be no need to ground the battery to the frame if you ran a ground wire to each of your circuts. very few actually do this they tie the grounds to the frame and use it as ground so they can use less wire.

The AC side of things the frame must be grounded to the incomming power supply ground line to provide shock hazard safety. You dont want anyone grabbing trailer metal and being the short to ground fuze. It is concivable that a trailer being on wood or plastic blocks and rubber tires to be isolated from ground. A power short to metal without the frame being bonded to service ground wont trip the breaker and would expose a person to a shock hazard if grabbing the frame and standing on the ground.

stevebaz 07-31-2013 09:11 AM

If someone used that white wire all the way to the battery you were set-up to fail. In the RV world white wire is ground. someone could have easily reversed the battery connection seing white is supposed to be ground. this could easily took out the converter and burned this circut. why the fuze didnt blow and prevent total meltdown I dont know.


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