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whoot 07-04-2015 10:05 PM

Camping in 3 states
 
I plan to use FL as my state of residence, yet I work in NJ. If I camp in 3 states, 4 months each, then none of the states can say I lived there for 6+ months, and cannot claim me as a resident. I'm not sure why the would want to claim me, perhaps for tax reasons, but I think if I am in each for less than 6 months, they can't claim me. Does this sound like a good idea?

Borrego Dave 07-04-2015 10:29 PM

I think you need to be in the home state 6 months + 1 day more than out of state. The folks that winter here in the desert watch the days pretty closely.

Cathi 07-04-2015 10:37 PM

Florida happens to use six months (and a day) to claim you as a resident but many states use no such thing. You have to look at each state. I assume that you know you very likely have to pay taxes to NJ on the money you make there even when a non-resident, and that is the way it is with other states. As a Florida resident, you need to make sure your business dealings are in Florida. The Escapees organization has information on this.

Four months will protect you in many places so that is a good plan but.... It is necessary to check each state where you plan to spend time and what their rules are, including on making money there, as far as making you a resident. Do not assume that because you are not there six months that they cannot claim you as a resident. You can talk to the state tax people and also look on forums that discuss it, both official and unofficial, for a particular state. Tell the tax officials what you plan to do and ask what makes you a resident. You will likely have to go round and round on it but can find out in the end what the situation is with a certain state.

When you make the move of your domicile to Florida by moving all of your business dealings there, you need to file a partial year return in NJ to let them know you have left the state. See a NJ tax accountant to do that and they should be able to give you a little info on it. Your biggest problem is in being able to claim Florida as your domicile while still working in NJ, so you need to check the NJ info the most. I am assuming that you are a resident of NJ by your avatar.

Bob Miller 07-04-2015 10:38 PM

Different states have different criteria for determining residency. But why don't you want to be a resident of a state? You don't seem to have a reason...




honda03842 07-05-2015 05:29 AM

William,

The Escapees focus on Texas Domicile for their members. This will give you some ideas. As Escapee members we have a legal TX address that we could use.

https://escapees.com/8-member-benefits/147-domicile

You may find the following booklet interesting. Here's a clip from the first page.

"If you are blessed with retirement, your home sold, and full-timing, you face a
problem most working people don’t face. Which state is your state of domicile?
(Domicile, in legalese, means the one state you call home.) The good news
is that you may pick from 50 states. The bad news is that you must take the
negative aspects about that state along with the benefits (like getting married).
The marriage analogy is apropos because domicile, like a spouse, is one per
person at a time. Unlike marriage, however, everyone has a domicile, but not
everyone has a spouse.
If you are newly full-timing and in your wallet you can find references to
more than one state, e.g., driver license from state A, vehicle registration from
state B, mailing address in state C, insurance in state D, voter registration in
state E, etc., you have a problem that should be addressed immediately.
Penalties and fines levied by states are so onerous that no one should even
consider attempting to use several states for their individual benefits. The highest
judgment heard about to date: $123,000 plus two years of community service. "

https://escapees.com/images/pdfs/texan.pdf

honda03842 07-05-2015 06:06 AM

Here's a link to the EScapee Forum that also has a lot of info on fulltiming.

Escapees Discussion Forum

starbrightsteve 07-05-2015 08:20 AM

Texas?
 
I suspect I am extremely naive. What's the reason for wanting to live in one place yet have a "legal" residence in Texas or wherever? My suspicion....is that this is about money and taxes. I suspect that folks with a significant amount of wealth don't want to give any of it up.
This should be good!

CandJ 07-05-2015 09:39 AM

FL has no state tax...
I think anyone who is retired probably needs to save all they can...

Casita Greg 07-05-2015 09:44 AM

Washington State also doesn't have a state income tax either. However, that being said, it is probably one of the most highly taxed states in all other areas, (such as gas taxes, sales taxes, "sin" taxes etc,) in the union on everything else.

honda03842 07-05-2015 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starbrightsteve (Post 533078)
I suspect I am extremely naive. What's the reason for wanting to live in one place yet have a "legal" residence in Texas or wherever? My suspicion....is that this is about money and taxes. I suspect that folks with a significant amount of wealth don't want to give any of it up.
This should be good!

Steve,

My legal residence will be Florida. We are Escapees for the services they provide to us, particularly when we were on the road all the time.. We, like many Escapees, have not been in one state even six months in the last 15 years. Because we had a home in NH we maintained our Domicile in NH, that's about to end.

We appreciate Escapees for the effort and legal work required to establish the TX domicile right for Escapee members. We do use our Escapee address for mail purposes when on the road... they literally have their own post office, even with professional sorting machines. They handle and forward our mail for us as we travel.

I believe the TX domicile address permits the total travelers to use that address in many ways. Since we had a NH address in what amounts to a no tax state , sales or income, for us we never investigated all the possibilities.

Minimizing taxes is a big deal for us, particularly when the other side continually tries to maximize them.

Our second biggest use of Escapees has been their campground system, low cost spotless places by people who have really traveled.

There's our reason.

honda03842 07-05-2015 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casita Greg (Post 533097)
Washington State also doesn't have a state income tax either. However, that being said, it is probably one of the most highly taxed states in all other areas, (such as gas taxes, sales taxes, "sin" taxes etc,) in the union on everything else.

Greg,

Our son lives in Bothell, WA so we've spent a lot of time in WA and love the state, particularly a lot of time on The Olympic Peninsula often staying at the Escapee park. We have driven the coast a couple of times. We are always amazed how quickly we can get to quiet once leaving Seattle, one of the busiest travel places on earth.

As to gas prices, we've pretty much abandoned CA, particularly the southern portion (be calm Bob) for travel though we do still manage the more rural northern part. Gas is just too high and... Oregon is jumping on the band wagon with their charge by the mile test. Just imagine where that will head. Actually Oregon and it's cost road is my favorite.

I like your little line from Solzhenitsyn, they've got plenty more to go. I just read where Seattle is giving IUDs to sixth graders, our taxes at work. I guess part of the reason I travel is to escape what I can't fix, after all i am an Escapee. I no longer go wild with what I can't fix, I sit and think of Newfoundland or Washington's Dry Flood or the great Missoula flood. EVen though taxes are high, there's an amazing level of turmoil, I am as happy as a lark on the road, only concerned about my Scamp and Ginny.

I like Alex's saying. More people need to be aware. "WHo is John Galt?"

Bob Miller 07-05-2015 01:06 PM

I'm sure that the IRS, the SSA, your insurance company, your bank and your employer also would want a real address as well, it's part of life in America.


And, working in a specific state will also get you resident status, like it or not.


BTW: Just because a state has an income tax doesn't necessarily mean that a retired person will have to pay much, if any, of that. My total CA state income tax last year was about $3.00 and all of that was an imputed tax for on-line purchases sales tax.


Now, if you are just trying to "Disappear", this really isn't the place to look for that help.




Casita Greg 07-05-2015 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honda03842 (Post 533104)
Greg,

Our son lives in Bothell, WA so we've spent a lot of time in WA and love the state, particularly a lot of time on The Olympic Peninsula often staying at the Escapee park. We have driven the coast a couple of times. We are always amazed how quickly we can get to quiet once leaving Seattle, one of the busiest travel places on earth.

As to gas prices, we've pretty much abandoned CA, particularly the southern portion (be calm Bob) for travel though we do still manage the more rural northern part. Gas is just too high and... Oregon is jumping on the band wagon with their charge by the mile test. Just imagine where that will head. Actually Oregon and it's cost road is my favorite.

I like your little line from Solzhenitsyn, they've got plenty more to go. I just read where Seattle is giving IUDs to sixth graders, our taxes at work. I guess part of the reason I travel is to escape what I can't fix, after all i am an Escapee. I no longer go wild with what I can't fix, I sit and think of Newfoundland or Washington's Dry Flood or the great Missoula flood. EVen though taxes are high, there's an amazing level of turmoil, I am as happy as a lark on the road, only concerned about my Scamp and Ginny.

I like Alex's saying. More people need to be aware. "WHo is John Galt?"

Thanks Norm & Ginny,
Although we seem to pay a "premium" for living here, we too really enjoy its natural beauty. Although I may complain about taxes, (but who doesn't?) I still enjoy living there. Now, if we could only get rid of the politicians, but I digress...

Cathi 07-05-2015 03:21 PM

Escapees has a set-up with them for establishing domicile in Florida just as they do in Texas. They are working on South Dakota which they thought they had but had to pull back due to problems.

Those are the three states used by full-timers the most because the paperwork required for driver's licenses and other business dealings can be obtained without a residence at a street address, since full-timers do not have one. No other states are known to allow that. Some full-timers get around that in other states by using a relative's address or in other ways. And, as mentioned, those are three of the states with no state income tax.

Bob Miller 07-05-2015 03:33 PM

Nothing to be excited about. I am not only a California Native, I am also and even rarer San Francisco native and lived in Northern California for 33 yeasr before moving to Washington for a while.


That said, when I was living in Virginia some years later and, when we were offered a position in California, SoCal didn't look near as bad from VA as it had for my years living in the bay area, so here I am...


That said, we will be spending next week at a state beach, enjoying the cool breezes, low humidity and apparent lack of sharks...LOL


B TW: I repeat, low humidity, a phenomenon apparently unknown in many of our central and eastern states, but I will still visit them.


And yes, my six day reservation for the Yosemite Valley in September is still in the hopper, ready to use.




Denece 07-05-2015 04:49 PM

When we cruised we used a popular mail forwarding service ( gosh, remember snail mail?) that also gave us their booklet on how to domicile in FL. That worked out real well for us as far as drivers licenses, boat registration documents, insurances and whatever. Since our income is from pensions, no taxes.
Do people still use mail services these days?


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Cathi 07-05-2015 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denece (Post 533147)
When we cruised we used a popular mail forwarding service ( gosh, remember snail mail?) that also gave us their booklet on how to domicile in FL. That worked out real well for us as far as drivers licenses, boat registration documents, insurances and whatever. Since our income is from pensions, no taxes.
Do people still use mail services these days?


Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV

Yes, they use mail services. Escapees' mail service is big and well-run from the reports, but there are many smaller ones that people like.

rbryan 07-06-2015 08:39 AM

Camping in 3 states
 
Having no income tax sounds great, but that's only part of the story. The total tax burden should be compared to other states, and taxes on consumption are a huge part of that. Here in Texas they like to brag about low taxes, but the sales tax places us at about 11th out of 50 states-- quite surprising to most people, and from that perspective it is NOT a low tax state. There are many articles that compare the overall tax burden with other states. Here's one:

http://www.ibtimes.com/united-states...burden-1562376


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honda03842 07-06-2015 09:14 AM

Maail Services
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathi (Post 533160)
Yes, they use mail services. Escapees' mail service is big and well-run from the reports, but there are many smaller ones that people like.

Cathi,

I'm not familiar with other mail services but one aspect of Escapee's Mail Services we like is their mail forwarding. Call or email Escapees mail and they almost immediately send your mail where ever you want. We typically use small town post offices we'll be passing through. We've absolutely never had a problem.

Over the years the amount of mail we receive has shrunk dramatically, another positive of the travel lifestyle.

Mary F 07-06-2015 10:28 AM

Careful, careful, careful.
 
:yep This is good information to share, as long as folks stick to pertinent facts and don't stray into emotional arguments for/against political jurisdictions' collection and use of taxes.:Thanx:

honda03842 07-06-2015 02:43 PM

Moving on... The OP was trying to minimize his tax payments, Information in that area could help. I've come to realize I can't change the tax structure just use it to my best advantage.

As to Sales tax as a factor, I live in a state with none. This can help an RVer. We save our big purchases as much as possible, computer, tires, .... for when we're in NH. It turns out that sales tax is really not much of a factor because we buy a lot less now that we're older.

Even if you're not a resident of a no tax state, you can buy in one. I go to Lowes and Home Depot frequently. Every morning it's loaded with small builders from MA, saving 6% on construction materials.

In some measure one need to become purchase careful.

RogerDat 07-06-2015 03:06 PM

States all have different ways to collect taxes. States use: personal property tax goods and portable real property, real estate property tax, sales, income, fuel, and user fees.

When it comes to retirement where to live or call home has a lot of factors to consider. Climate, services, activities and yes taxes. If one is building an expensive home on acres of land property taxes matter. Moving a work shop or machine shop worth of tools into a pole barn or garage to work on classic cars? Then personal property tax situation is part of the picture. Not the whole picture but part of it certainly.

There are states you could give me the house or tools and I still don't want to live there. No I'm not going to tell you which ones.

There are also probate and estate considerations that some might wish to consider, fees and/or taxes related to inheritance or property left to heirs.

Michigan has a one time trailer plate (user fee) other states might want that money annually and base it on value so that the new camper for your retirement costs you a chunk every year. Motor home plates are especially expensive here. Guess maybe they want to get money from our snow birds that head south for the winter.

Sales taxes suit some states especially those that have a fair amount of tourism. Simply put taxing the folks that come through or visit should help keep the taxes lower on the folks living there. Yes they are generally considered regressive as opposed to progressive as an income tax is but the benefit to the OP would depend on if they purchase little or lots, and if they have high taxable income or not.

Michigan does now tax pension income beyond a certain level, not sure of how that works but that could certainly be an important consideration.

I would use some care in how I went about establishing a "domicile" state if I did not have any clear connection to living there. Woman scorned has nothing on state treasury departments retribution for trying to avoid taxes through anything they consider "sketchy". Getting professional advice is probably warranted, especially if one is going to continue to earn some income. Or the value of your property is significant.

Heck it is your life, take the advice of strangers on the internet or hire someone professional to advise. Your choice. Discussion here may help you figure out what you need the professional for.

RogerDat 07-06-2015 03:57 PM

Interesting! We all read something into OP that really is not there. No stated reason for interest. Just I'm going to use Fla. and the question about if not camped in any state for 6 months could that prevent his being claimed by any state as a resident.

Does mention working in NJ. But I assume NJ would collect state income tax from wages even of out of state resident, and get a 1099 for non-wage income so from an income tax perspective what state the money is earned in and the tax laws on that income are what matter not the state of residence. Unless the residence state allows for beneficial treatment of out of state earnings as compared to another state.

Hey where is CPA when you need one?

Raz 07-06-2015 04:02 PM

Actually William posted a second post in which he said NJ taxes were not the issue. He was more than happy to pay the taxes. The issue was not being able to find a place where he could park his trailer to live. As I recall he said NJ wants him to live in a house. Apparently it wasn't here long. Why he deleted it I do not know but perhaps he will restore it, Raz

Uplander 07-06-2015 04:10 PM

The management did delete more than one post...mine included...it seems this is a hot political potato no matter how you slice it....nobody likes to pay taxes.

Florida taxes your investment accounts....no income tax in Florida.

Can't hide from that tax man!!!

RogerDat 07-06-2015 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uplander (Post 533379)
The management did delete more than one post...mine included...it seems this is a hot political potato no matter how you slice it....nobody likes to pay taxes.

Florida taxes your investment accounts....no income tax in Florida.

Can't hide from that tax man!!!

Yes death and taxes, both tend to be pretty unpopular and pretty hard to avoid.

The taxes part can get political fast since government funding from taxes and spending are hot political issues with strong opinions and philosophy's on the subject. Hard to discuss topic without bringing those views into the discussion. Which tends to bring the opposite view into the discussion and pretty soon we might as well be the Jerry Springer show. Blah :loltu

Death I'm pretty sure both major parties and the minor ones are generally not in favor of. :D

Still not sure what the OP was trying to accomplish, or was it just Hey if I claim this state AND don't live in any other state for long enough to be claimed by them does my claimed state rule?

in theory that would mean one could claim Fla. but camp in Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin for 4 months each and be legally a Fla. resident because they claimed it. Seems weird but if true not the weirdest thing I have ever heard.

Raz 07-06-2015 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uplander (Post 533379)
The management did delete more than one post...mine included...it seems this is a hot political potato no matter how you slice it....nobody likes to pay taxes.

Florida taxes your investment accounts....no income tax in Florida.

Can't hide from that tax man!!!

It didn't seem his post was controversial but perhaps.


I've come to the conclusion that every place is pretty much the same. Maintaining things cost money. Unfortunately, no one ever advanced their career by maintaining the status quo. And of course they can't do it without my help. There is always a crisis, never enough money and all solutions are successful. We spend at least one month a year camping. As long as I can do that they can do what they want. :) Raz

Cathi 07-06-2015 04:41 PM

The OP says in his first line that he plans to use Florida as his state of residence. By that, I am sure he means he will be using Florida as his domicile where he does his business. He can reside anywhere else at any time and Florida will be glad to have him use Florida as his domicile. That is what full-timers do and that is why they use Florida, or SD or TX. They do not have to be present in the state except perhaps in a rare circumstance.

He is camping 4 months in each of three states over the year. That indicates that he is a full-timer, and I am assuming that he does not own a house or property for some state to claim him that way.

We are told that he deleted a post regarding authorities wanting him in a house. That is a problem that I would say comes under zoning, and is common. The OP can look for a jurisdiction that does not ban trailers from their area. That is not a problem that most full-timers have. They tend to move to established communities of trailer owners only, where they are allowed.

The OP seems to want to be a full-timer but does not know how to do that. I can only recommend talking to Escapees. He is absolutely allowed to make Florida or SD or TX his domicile. He has to move his business dealings which is rather easy, I hear, with Escapees, or without Escapees. A zoning matter is something else altogether. He needs to find a place to move that will take him.

It is just a fact that some states do not have income taxes but usually have other high taxes to make up for that. Depending on your life style or time in life, one state may benefit a person over another. It is your choice which state you make your domicile. That, however, does not prevent a state from claiming you as a resident for some reason. Need to ask authorities what makes you a resident and read on it.

Glenn Baglo 07-06-2015 04:46 PM

Or maybe he is under 'house arrest' but wants to travel.

Cathi 07-06-2015 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honda03842 (Post 533262)
Cathi,

I'm not familiar with other mail services but one aspect of Escapee's Mail Services we like is their mail forwarding. Call or email Escapees mail and they almost immediately send your mail where ever you want. We typically use small town post offices we'll be passing through. We've absolutely never had a problem.

Over the years the amount of mail we receive has shrunk dramatically, another positive of the travel lifestyle.

Norm, Escapees is now establishing domicile with their Florida address for that, but I know you already have that taken care of, being at one of the parks.

I always hear that their mail service is excellent. Others also think their (other) mail services are great, too, some in SD, some in FL. Can't say that I have seen anyone who did not like his mail service. Some now scan all of the mail and send that to you to see what you want out of it. Some will open your mail and read it, if you want. Everyone seems to be happy with their mail service! But, yes, I guess Escapees is the biggest and most well known and is very well liked.

Bob Miller 07-06-2015 05:18 PM

Or "Maybe" he is just wanting to disappear????? One could write about 50 scenarios based on his posts, both those deleted and not deleted.




honda03842 07-06-2015 06:17 PM

Cathi,

My goal is to eliminate mail in total. The whole concept of mail is approaching obsolete for me. I don't think there's anything we get of real importance other than our Escapee magazine and i believe it's available on-line to members.

The most important item I guess is packages and soon that will be eliminated. Possibly a computer controlled vehicle carrying a little robot will deliver packages or a flock of drones.

Things change...

cpaharley2008 07-06-2015 08:28 PM

Just remember, tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion is not.....

whoot 07-07-2015 05:41 PM

I deleted the posts that had too much personal information, because I've had people in the past try to disrupt my life. I've lived in several different states over the years, and in almost all of them, there was an element of "you can't use a PO box as a home address". This thread was about trying to be outside the jurisdiction of any one state, so as to avoid the requirement of having a physical address. I'm not trying to avoid paying taxes, or hide from anyone, I'm just trying to live in a trailer full-time. I wanted to use camp-grounds instead of trailer-parks, because the camp-grounds are a lot closer to where I work. People could say, "Ah-ha, got you! You can't live at a camp-ground! I'm going to call the police now." That is why I want to be 100% legal. I thought by using FL/TX/SD I could be 100% legal. When this thread started taking a crazy direction, I deleted some of my posts. From what I've learned over the last few days, I probably will need to remain a resident of NJ, and find a way to make that work. The worst-case scenario is that I live in a trailer-park.

Mary F 07-07-2015 08:44 PM

Thanks for the clarifications, William. Good luck with it! :thumb

Darrell in Al 07-07-2015 11:37 PM

I've been fighting the no P.O. box issue for 5 years 2 1/2 years my physical address didn't show up on maps... I was staying in campground on Tn. River. Now at a RV / trailer park. It was a problem that caused the state to cancel my vehicle registration 2 times right after renewing it. Good thing it was my secondary vehicle. I still use my P O BOX address and have to reiterate that I only receive mail there and not my physical address.

Borrego Dave 07-08-2015 12:58 AM

Darrell, I've run into somewhat same thing here with just having a PO Box in a town that doesn't have any USPS home delivery. My address does show up on a map. I've found it funny and annoying with how many times I've had problems trying to explain to people that yes, there are still small towns that exist that only use a box for mail in the USA.
For those of you that full time, I'm glad you have options that work for you.

Denece 07-08-2015 10:01 PM

Find a mail service or someone who will allow you to use their address for your license, registration and insurance. We used one in Green Cove Springs, FL but there are dozens. All you need is something that satisfies the bean counters in whichever state you decide to use.
We only got snail mail a few times a year when we were on the boat but maintained all our "official" stuff from that cubby in FL. They did have the documents needed to claim domicile ( legal residence) on their website but St Brendan's Isle has sold since our time so don't know if they still do. One bonus, we got to vote absentee in FL, where they only open the absentee ballots if the number might change an outcome!


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