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Old 10-14-2016, 04:20 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by thrifty bill View Post
Let me try this again. While many focus on the tow rating of their vehicle, they often overlook the payload capacity. While these are two different ratings, one does affect the other. In my case, with a five passenger pickup truck, I run out of payload capacity long before I run out of towing capacity.

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At least in my case, part of towing a FG trailer is the very limited storage in the trailer itself. So a lot of stuff ends up in my truck instead: bicycles, camp stove, lantern, misc extension cords, gas grill, screen room, lawn chairs.

On Ford trucks from the year my truck was made, the more options your truck has, the lower the payload. My truck is pretty loaded, its an F150 Lariat with many options. All those options drive down the available payload.
You should have got the optional MAX tow package for your F150 and your pay load would be greater

I hear you on this though. It is/was a real big problem for me with the Nissan Frontier which has a much lower payload rating than the F150 depending on the model. Mine has the largest payload of the Frontier's and I also have a fibreglass topper over the box that reduces the usable payload greatly. With two passengers, the cover and the current trailer and a pop up tent in the back I max out the Frontier - even a bit over. So I do need to put everything I can in the trailer and why I have ordered a new truck. ;-)

To keep the payload in check I carried almost everything in the trailer - even when I had the Scamp. Chairs and tables traveled in the bathroom. Outdoor stove and small BQ in the small cupboard under the front bunk. A large rubber maid container that contained all the hoses, electrical cords, lights etc rode on the floor of the trailer.
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Old 10-14-2016, 05:43 PM   #22
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Name: Robert
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A word of caution about gross vehicle weights and tow weights. The gross vehicle weight is the weight of vehicle, fuel, passengers, cargo, hitch, tongue weight. In short, everything bearing on the tow vehicle wheels. The tow weight is the trailer weight. Whatever you choose to call them, it is possible to be under the limit for both, but still exceed the gross combined weight spec. For instance, with my van a gross vehicle weight of 4500lb and a trailer weight of 2000lb are both under the manufacturers limits for each, but the combined weight, 6500lb is 150lb over the gross combined vehicle weight limit.
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Old 10-14-2016, 06:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ravensrest View Post
A word of caution about gross vehicle weights and tow weights. The gross vehicle weight is the weight of vehicle, fuel, passengers, cargo, hitch, tongue weight. In short, everything bearing on the tow vehicle wheels. The tow weight is the trailer weight. Whatever you choose to call them, it is possible to be under the limit for both, but still exceed the gross combined weight spec. For instance, with my van a gross vehicle weight of 4500lb and a trailer weight of 2000lb are both under the manufacturers limits for each, but the combined weight, 6500lb is 150lb over the gross combined vehicle weight limit.
Yup as mentioned in post 18 that was my experience as well when I was shopping for a new tow vehicle and I did the math on the combined rating using my trailers weight on several new tow vehicles I was considering. Funny enough it was not a situation that I was looking at vehicles with relatively low tow ratings &/or maxing out their tow limits either. Was a bit surprised at some of them and as a result I have not doubt there are lot of combos on the roads that are over the combined limits.
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Old 10-14-2016, 07:47 PM   #24
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I have a 2013 17 ft Casita Spirit Deluxe . The trailer is towed by a 2014 Ram 1500 with the 5.7 liter Hemi V8 . I find that my vehicle is adequate for towing the Casita. I previously towed with a 1999 Ram 1500 truck with a V6 engine and found it to be totally inadequate.
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Old 10-17-2016, 11:17 AM   #25
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A hemi will get the job done. Do you get better mileage towing with the modern Hemi that you did with the 1500 with the V6? I know you get more smiles per mile with the new truck.
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Old 10-17-2016, 12:10 PM   #26
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Hi All,

Interesting thread. IMO, I would not tow a 16' Scamp or 17' Casita with a 4 cylinder Taco rated to tow 3,500 lbs., particularly given the environmental parameters described by the OP.

I have an '05 Casita 17' FD that weighs 2910. I have an '09 Kia Borrego V8 2WD rated to tow 7,500 lbs and 750 on the tongue with a WDH. In other words, I have plenty of tow capacity, BUT the cargo carrying capacity of The Borg is 1,160. Once you subtract the weight of the hitch, the tongue weight, Laura, and myself, we have about 350 lbs left for gear and stuff. No problem for us empty nesters, but if our two young adult daughters and their stuff comes with us, then we are pushing it. Plenty of tow capacity, but limited CCC.

Lots of details to keep up with. Thanks to all the good folks here for helping me learn this over past 15 months!

Wishing the OP and friend the best!

Take care,

Dean
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Laura & Dean | '05 Casita 17' FD | '09 Kia Borrego Limited V8 2WD
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:20 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by stevebaz View Post
A hemi will get the job done. Do you get better mileage towing with the modern Hemi that you did with the 1500 with the V6? I know you get more smiles per mile with the new truck.
Like I said , I find the Hemi to be adequate not great just adequate.
Yes , I do get better gas mileage with the V8 compared to the V6
plus it doesn't have to downshift or change gears on the slightest upgrade when towing. I can't imagine nor will I tow a 3500 lb trailer with a small vehicle with a 4 or 6 cylinder engine.
Everyone has a different comfort level when towing so I am only speaking for myself.
As I have stated many times , if I had my choice of tow vehicles and cost was not an issue , my tow vehicle would be a 3/4 ton diesel truck but to each their own.

PS: I witnessed a small vehicle towing a relatively small trailer get thrown into the ditch while trying to make a panic stop.
That was enough for me !!.
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Like I said , I find the Hemi to be adequate not great just adequate.
Yes , I do get better gas mileage with the V8 compared to the V6
plus it doesn't have to downshift or change gears on the slightest upgrade when towing. I can't imagine nor will I tow a 3500 lb trailer with a small vehicle with a 4 or 6 cylinder engine.
Everyone has a different comfort level when towing so I am only speaking for myself.
As I have stated many times , if I had my choice of tow vehicles and cost was not an issue , my tow vehicle would be a 3/4 ton diesel truck but to each their own.

PS: I witnessed a small vehicle towing a relatively small trailer get thrown into the ditch while trying to make a panic stop.
That was enough for me !!.
Like I said when this thread started I have had both a Tundra Longbed.Reg Cab with the V8 and one with the V6.
The V8 is 4wd and the V6 is 2wd but otherwise they were setup the exact same way and I even had the same shell on the back of both.
As far as I know they were similar if not identical (no European versions and unproven assumptions of similarity!) and I pulled the 17' FD with each a lot.

The V6 had no issues at all with the Casita,ever and I towed with it through some amazing storms too from STL to S.Florida and back several times. I was entirely satisfied with it although I also did not know the difference just yet either.

The V8 just pulls almost the same but is much more effortless in every situation.

I am convinced part of my success overall is the longer wheelbase heavier truck that the Tundra is compared to a Taco or 4Runner or Highlander or any other smaller truck really.
Mine is the smaller 1st Generation Tundra as is the Taco in question here the older and smaller generation of them but the extra mass and stability of the bigger truck just enables it to better Manhandle the trailer from my experience.

The V8 also does get better mileage for me than the V6 did although it is close and I also tend to drive faster with the extra power,I try not to but........

So I am all for too much truck than wondering about too little and I am the only one I need to convince about it too,but experience has taught me to be safer and it is more efficient for me by any measure.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:08 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Yes , I do get better gas mileage with the V8 compared to the V6
Steve is most of your driving outside of busy traffic areas?

The reason I ask is while shopping of a new truck I noted the the highway MPG's on the new V8's was in fact better than the V6. But when I questioned the sales staff ( one owned the V6 and the other owned the V8 version of the truck I was looking at) they suggest that if the V6 was a good match for my trailer size/weight etc (and it is) then while the V8 would give me better mpgs on the highway, it would not do as well on MPG's as my daily drive around town as the V6. Has that been your experience?
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Old 10-17-2016, 04:32 PM   #30
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I agree with Steve. I tow a 3500 lb trailer with a 3/4 ton diesel and I don't even know it's there! I have lighter vehicles that can do it and I've done that but it's a "white knuckle" experience and it cost MORE for fuel.
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Old 10-17-2016, 06:31 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Steve is most of your driving outside of busy traffic areas?

The reason I ask is while shopping of a new truck I noted the the highway MPG's on the new V8's was in fact better than the V6. But when I questioned the sales staff ( one owned the V6 and the other owned the V8 version of the truck I was looking at) they suggest that if the V6 was a good match for my trailer size/weight etc (and it is) then while the V8 would give me better mpgs on the highway, it would not do as well on MPG's as my daily drive around town as the V6. Has that been your experience?
When we retired we moved to our lake home in rural Wisconsin.
I would estimate that 80 to 90% of our driving is highway driving because there is no city near us to drive in. The highway mileage for my V8 , if you can believe the onboard computer is about 21 MPG not towing. Towing , I've been as low as 11.5 MPG going uphill and fighting a headwind and as high as 17.0 MPG going downhill with a strong tailwind.
My wife and I and another couple just completed a 4000 mile trip to Jasper , Banff and Glacier NP. I was towing my 3500 lb Casita with my Ram 1500- Hemi , my buddy was pulling his 34 ft, 10,000 lb 5th wheel with a Ram 2500 6.7 liter diesel. On flat terrain our MPG were close but in the mountains he got better mileage.

To answer your question . I have owned 3 -6 cylinder trucks and 3- 8 cylinder trucks. The 6 cylinder vehicles did better in the city and the V8's did better on the highway whether towing or not.
I have owned Ford ,Chevy and Dodge trucks so my experience is based on those three brands.
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Old 10-17-2016, 07:30 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
The highway mileage for my V8 , if you can believe the onboard computer is about 21 MPG not towing. Towing .
Thanks Steve, I believe that number as it is about what they are claiming. Amazing really how things have improved of late on the bigger engines.

I ended up ordering an 2017 F150 V6 eco boost with the max tow package. First of the Fords to have a 10 speed transmission. Will see how it does.
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Old 10-17-2016, 07:54 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Thanks Steve, I believe that number as it is about what they are claiming. Amazing really how things have improved of late on the bigger engines.

I ended up ordering an 2017 F150 V6 eco boost with the max tow package. First of the Fords to have a 10 speed transmission. Will see how it does.
Congratulations !! Ford makes a great truck and I hope it works well for you.
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:34 PM   #34
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Congratulations !! Ford makes a great truck and I hope it works well for you.
Thanks, have to admit I have never owned a Ford other than my very first car - a Ford Pinto! And we all know how that worked out. LOL

I like my Nissan Frontier as its smallish and I drive a lot in a city and it handled the 16' Scamp fine on hills etc but its never been a best in class when it comes to gas milage towing or not towing. It has PRO 4x package to beef up the back end, so back end drop was never an issue with the Scamp 250lb tongue. The new trailer is just to heavy on the tongue for it (although it is within its max tongue weight spec) and you can crank the WDH right up and it will not level out the truck. Not to mention just getting the trailer out of my sloped driveway the truck lets me know it working hard to pull it out. Not a good thing.

Leaving the big city behind next week and moving to an island where having a bigger truck will not be as big of an issue as having one in the city is/was for me.

Plan to do longer trips next winter with the trailer. As others have pointed out and what I have learned doing other long towing trips over the years, is that it is not as comfortable and way more tiring when pulling with a vehicle that is marginal than it is when towing with a vehicle that is more than able to do the job.
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Old 10-18-2016, 12:02 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Thanks, have to admit I have never owned a Ford other than my very first car - a Ford Pinto! And we all know how that worked out. LOL
.
Hey don't go knocking the Pinto. I loved my little metallic Green 1971 Pinto runabout. It was a great little car except for 1 minor over blown design flaw.
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:06 PM   #36
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Hey don't go knocking the Pinto. I loved my little metallic Green 1971 Pinto runabout. It was a great little car except for 1 minor over blown design flaw.

I loved that car as well. As well as all the tie die and bell bottoms... not the platform shoes though

To make matters worse after that minor over blown design flaw came to light I decided I was going to buy my first brand new car and not have to deal with old car issues. In a moment of naive brilliance decided that I had to have a nice shine Triumph sport car. It also turned out to have an over "blown up" design flaw and spent 5 months of its 1 year warranty parked waiting for parts to come from England which were delayed due to a strike at the auto makers plants. And yup I was still making car payments and had no car to drive as they did not offer a loaner car and no they did not extend the warranty period due to having been undrivable and as a result did not pay for the new transmission it needed a month after it went off its one year warranty. Oh and I was a poor student at the time paying my own way.

I do have a good chuckle to myself some days when I hear folks complaining about number & type of recalls etc we have on cars these days & the lack of a fast fix by the auto makers.
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Old 10-18-2016, 04:25 PM   #37
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I had a friend with a Pinto and a bumper sticker that said " DANGER UNEXPLODED PINTO "

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Fiberglass RV mobile app
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Old 09-06-2017, 05:37 PM   #38
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Old 09-06-2017, 05:53 PM   #39
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Highlander
It was a pretty good TV show as I remember but it's been a few
years.
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Old 09-06-2017, 08:19 PM   #40
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Highlander
That is the problem with looking at forums with a smartphone, But the thread is a wealth of knowledge!

thanks!
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