real life mpg

[Loren G. Hedahl]

Originally Posted by David Tilston

Hmmm. Your favorite spots are the west coast of the US, and east coast of Canada. Norm, I think you like the ocean!

Have you ever considered a boat? Lots in common with a trailer.

And to keep it on topic: Sail boats can have very good fuel economy.

A couple of years ago we spent a very stormy night camping in a Safeway grocery store parking lot about an hour north of the Golden Gate bridge. When we woke up the next morning there was a retired Canadian couple parked alongside us with a newer diesel pickup and 26 ft sail boat.

We inspected each others' rigs then had breakfast together nearby. They were headed to the Gulf coast for a winter of sailing and relaxation -- we on our way home. While there are similarities, there are also a lot of differences between cruising sailboats and Scamps.

One thing very apparent was the high quality of the boats fixtures and appliances. Since then I have replaced my stove, furnace and toilet with yacht quality. It's expensive, but oh is it nice!

[honda03842]

David I have considered a boat, Ginny likes solid ground under her feet.

Oregon 's coast has the ocean and mountains plus a small town ruralness, not like Newfoundland but similar

[MC1]

We live a short 5 min bike ride from Port Dalhousie Marina. We see and hear the stories of expense, and maintainance.

We camp where there are trees. Not many trees out on the water. No boating for us.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Unfortunately the manual transmission is no longer available in the USA.

Bob, what pressure do you inflate your CRV and trailer tires to?

Usually to the maximum pressure shown on the sidewall.....Currently 36 (TV) and 50 (Trailer) I believe.

[honda03842]

"That's about a 35% hit vs day-to-day driving."

Bob,

Your mileage, 19 mpg, is not too bad. Many would be happy with it.

We of course take a hit compared to highway (27%) and around town (19%). Do you get the same mpgs with the Scamp 13 and Bigfoot 13?

Your tire pressures are very similar to what I run. We do not have an awning, roof air conditioner or Maxx vent.

Safe travels

[Bob Miller]

Both the Scamp and the "Lil' Bigfoot" mpg's were about the same depending more on the trip than what was being pulled. Remember, the 13' Lil' Bigfoot is an Egg.

[carlkeigley]

I'd like to put a sail on my rig, but think it would have the opposite
effect of MPG than hoped for..........LOL

[jennykatz]

Now i'm wondering if my Sequoia would get about 15mpg? with it's 4.7 litre v-8 I tow a 5000lb boat and trailer and get about 10-12mpg I remember towing just the boat trailer with a TEDS shack on top and I got around 14-15 mpg and that weighed in at over 2000lb? So maybe just keep the Sequoia and be happy until a Subaru or VW diesel comes along ? I rented a tiquan (gas 2litre) and it ran good so diesel should be better ? Now to zoom in on a trailer Casita, Scamp, Escape,Lil snoozy, egg, so many choices so little time Jim

[stevebaz]

Do you know how much gas you can buy for your Sierra for the price of a new Subaru.

[honda03842]

Gas has become the big vehicle expense item. We drive about 25,000.miles a year, buy about 1000 gallons a year costing about $4000 year.

Over the 10 year life of the car we spend $40,000 on gas, about twice the cost of our $20,000 tow vehicle.

Over 10 years we spend another 15,000 on taxes and insurance.

As well over 10 years another 1,500 on oil changes and another 3,000 on misc wear items and repairs.

Honda CRV 20,000
Gas 40,000
Tax/Ins 15,000
Oil 1,500
Repairs 3,000
Tires 3,000

It all comes to about $80,000 to drive 250,000 miles about 30 cents a mile. Gas represents about half the cost.

[rouxstep]

For the record,

In France similar CRV is a 2.0L gas engine with 150HP and 141 ft-lbs.
In USA similar CRV is a 2.4L engine with 166HP and 161 ft-lbs.
Max trailer weight in France 1600 kg (3500 pounds).
Max trailer weight in North America is 680kg (1500 pounds).
For both areas, manufacturer specifies trailer must have brakes above 1000 pounds.

At quick glance, in North America, the engine is stronger and more torque and pulls less! <_<
So I guess it’s all a question of set regulations.

I have a 2007 Honda CRV with a 2.4 L gas engine running on regular unleaded.
Owner’s manual specifies these capacities:
Front axle =1050 kg (2310 pounds)
Rear axle =1040 kg (2290 pounds)
Trailer max weight = 680 kg (1500 pounds)
10% of trailer weight on tongue (150 pounds)
Gross combine weight is 6100 pounds.


I pull a 1984 U-Haul CT13 rated at 1250 pounds according to U-Haul and my title.
Went to public truck scale and got the score of 2006 pounds (910 kg) I had full camping gear, 1 battery, one 35 lbs propane tank, bicycles etc.. Camper has a permanent awning added. Camper has an icebox not a 50 pound three way fridge and no water, no AC just a fantastic. I have weight, with a human scale all the stuff that was in that trailer and it summed to 380 pounds so actual real world weight of Ct-13 is 1626 pounds. Where comes the 376 pounds? I guess U-Haul did not weight the spare tire, battery, propane, table, backrest and cushions, no ventilation and so on.

You can see in the picture the reading per scale per axle:
Front axle = 920 kg (2028 pounds)
Rear axle = 930 kg (2050 pounds)
Trailer axle weight = 830 kg (1829 pounds hitched) (2006 pounds unhitched)
Tongue weight with bike rack is 190 pounds, almost 10% of trailer weight.
Gross combine weight is 5907 pounds.

So I pull above North American specs but I’m below the maximum combine weight. I don’t have brakes on the CT-13 like I should be according to owner’s manual since its above 1000 pounds.
Riding impressions with the CRV is okay on smooth roads but very harsh when pavement is damaged, it pulls off very decently from red lights and accelerates in a normal fashion on ramp to highway. Then I take is easy at 60 MPH.

I get between 15 and 18 MPG on highway riding 62 MPH depending if going against or with the wind. I know I can get more consistent 18 MPG if I was riding country roads at 50 MPH.
Without pulling, best I’ve got is 29 MPG but usually run in the 26 MPG. That’s riding between 60 and 70 MPH. So the CT-13 consumes between 8 and 11 MPG. Over the last six years I’ve had the U-Haul Ct13 I’ve pulled it with a Nissan Versa! A 3.1L V6 Dodge Caravan, a 4.3L Chevy Blazer and now the 2.4L CRV. And it always increased fuel consumption by the same range. the CT-13 add between 8 and 11 MPG to the tow vehicle.

One fantasy I have is to test ride a 5.3L gas V8 Silverado and figure what the MPG would be. I figure I’d get 16 MPG but with full size riding comfort! But since I’m not retired I average 1500 miles of pulling per camping season so the rest of my yearly 12000 miles is done with decent fuel consumption. So when I budget for a 600 mile trip weekend, I take a glimps of weather forecast and decide if I should ride my motorcycle with restaurants and basic motels at 60MPG versus pulling at 13-18 MPG plus camp site fee = sometimes it’s a breakeven!

[cpaharley2008]

Great information Norm and Stephane,
without record keeping, none of us would have any history........

[rabbit]

Yes indeed, very thorough and illuminating, Stephane. Does your CRV have an automatic transmission?

jack

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by rabbit

Yes indeed, very thorough and illuminating, Stephane. Does your CRV have an automatic transmission?

jack

Same Q I was going to ask. In our 2008 CRV we improved MPG's when towing similar trailers to slightly over 18 mpg by locking out the overdrive. We had one weigh-in done with the Lil' Bigfoot and were clocked in at 1435 lbs total with stuff on board. We also hold to 55 mph. (Dat's da law in CA)

[rouxstep]

Originally Posted by rabbit

Yes indeed, very thorough and illuminating, Stephane. Does your CRV have an automatic transmission?

jack

After 2007 only automatique is offered ( In Norht America) other option not mentioned is its real time AWD ( 4WD engages when front wheels slip).

I do play with the OD button on shifter especially when I anticipate the OD will have a tendancy to engage when riding a "hilly" area. otherwise on flat higway RPMs just rev less when OD is engaged.

Other element not mentioned, on highway (most of the riding) I shut the Windows and use AC.

[rouxstep]

What I would like to understand or get an explaination is why our stronger North American CRV has a lower towing capacity rate than the weaker Euro CRV? Its' just tough to make sense!

[Nate R]

Originally Posted by rouxstep

What I would like to understand or get an explaination is why our stronger North American CRV has a lower towing capacity rate than the weaker Euro CRV? Its' just tough to make sense!

That exactly is the subject of some debate. I've never seen an answer with any credibility behind it, so you have to draw your own conclusions.

[honda03842]

One can't make sense of everything. For some reason it apears that Honda and others have made choices not based on the vehicle but rather the market.

A reality is that we've towed for 6 years, have 200,000 miles and have had no issues.

For the record I do have the 'front slippage' four wheel drive. I have never felt it engage except when I forced it by attempting to accelerate in a wet or slippage situation. Of course, we're hardly ever in snow and ice.

[Bob Miller]

Higher ratings for European versions? Here MAY be a few reasons:

1. Hate to bring it up, but in my personal observations, after having driven at least 20,000 miles in europe for both business and pleasure, European drivers tend make a fewer "stupid" decisions when driving. Just getting a drivers license in most European countries is a difficult, time consuming and somewhat expensive process. And, as it's a lot easier to lose your license there than here, European drivers might be more cautious on the road. This all suggests that mfgs. might base some of the towing specs on probable drivers behavior.

2. Most european countries have very strict vehicle condition and inspection requirements to the point, in Germany at least, even trailer hitches must be govt. approved before they can be sold, and then inspected and certified after installation. Needless to say, CanAm RV wouldn't find much of a market for their #%^@*^^$ hitches. This too suggests that mfgs' have to be less concerned about the condition of a vehicle a few years down the road when it is being used as a TV and can be more generous with tow ratings.

3. A lot of European countries rely heavily of traffic cameras, meaning that drivers know that they are always being watched and might be a tad more careful. Watch some of the UK crime shows, the first thing always asked is "What did the CCTV show" I personally own a CCTV ticket for making an illegal turn in Bath that I didn't even know was illegal. It caught up with me a month after the trip, 20 pounds please.

4. 90% of American & Canadian drivers consider their driving skills to be "Above Average" (a mathematic impossibility) and many tend to drive over-confidently, knowing that what ever they do is the right thing to do.....

5. Engine power isn't everything in determining towing capacity. On vehicles that look the same, and have even smaller engines, there may be considerable differences in suspension, brakes etc., that also also allow for the higher ratings.

In summary, IMHO anyway; driving skills, vehicle maintenance/condition and engineering changes may all contribute to the higher ratings. Not to mention liability questions, but that's another topic.

[David Tilston]

I blame lawyers, (law suits) and marketing. They just want you to buy a bigger vehicle, which they know they can't sell in Europe.