Casita 16 with 2004 Honda CRV

[Ed Harris]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

Just a little bit incorrect. I am going by the -manufacturer's- tow rating... Not the -US importer's- tow rating. Volkswagen rates the 2.0 liter diesel Golf to tow 3,300 pounds. Same engine, trans, and everything else as the Golf sold here. Needs a Euro hitch to be able to tow that much, but you can get those here. VW of America decides how to rate the cars here. Toyota rates my car to tow nearly 1,700 pounds. Built on the same assembly line on Japan. Toyota Motor Sales in the US decided not to rate ANY Toyota car for towing. In fact, they say not to even put a bike rack on the back. Odd, how it goes from 1,700 pounds to "can't haul a bicycle."

Sorry for any confusion,I was really responding to the O.P. with that one.

Ed

[honda03842]

Recent Experience.

We've now towed our 1991 Scamp 16 about 1500 miles.

Just about everywhere we stop some one wants a tour. No one believes it is 20 years old. It's amazing how well it's stood up.

Last night at lovely and expensive Virginia's Kiptopeke State Park at the tip of the DelMar Penisula, a fellow camper asked if we had a V6 or V8 in our Honda CRV tow vehicle.

I have been amazed how well the Scamp towed today, a particularly windy day. Only once did I notice the effect of a strong side wind, nothing significant in motion but I did feel it.

After some 1500 miles our mileage per tankful hovers arounf 23 mpg, almost identical to towing this winter's Casita 16.

We both love the side bath and front couch. We've decided to add a rear couch as well in the form of a U shaped dinette.

[cpaharley2008]

There is a big difference between what you can do and what you should do. I think that is the issue here.

[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

There is a big difference between what you can do and what you should do. I think that is the issue here.

Norm may be taking a risk in terms of his own liability, but that's his call. As for tangible risk to others, I'm not so sure.

Let me compare a couple of vehicles to his:
vehicle curb weight wheelbase tow rating
2004 CRV 3200 lb. 103" 1500 lb.
2007 Highlander 3500 lb. 107" 3500 lb.
2008 Highlander 4000 lb. 110" 5000 lb. (my tug)
'10 Santa Fe 4cyl 3700 lb. 106" 2000 lb.
'10 Santa Fe 6cyl 3700 lb. 106" 3500 lb.
'09 Subaru Outback 3200 lb. 103" 2700 lb.

There seems to be only a tenuous correlation between rated tow capacity and the curb weight or wheelbase. The latter tend to be considered as valuable markers in a vehicle's actual capabilities for safe towing. Does a 4" WB increase and a 300 lb. weight increase justify more than doubling tow capacity (from CRV to '07 Highlander)? Does adding a 6 cylinder engine to the Hyundai Santa Fe make a safety difference versus the 4 cylinder, or is the vehicle basically safe to tow 3500 lbs with the 4-banger (but the mfr worries about drivetrain failure)? And look at that Subaru, considered by most to be a very capable tug... practically the same weight and wheelbase as the CRV, and both have 4 cylinder engines too.... yet the former has almost double the tow rating. Safety concerns? Or drivetrain longevity concerns?

I'm not in a position to get info on brake sizing, but with trailer brakes added I suspect that any of these vehicles should be able to stop within a few feet of each other. There are other factors, like rear overhang, tires, suspension. I don't have all the answers. But the CRV with trailer doesn't look like a mayhem machine to me.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Norm may be taking a risk in terms of his own liability, but that's his call. As for tangible risk to others, I'm not so sure.

Let me compare a couple of vehicles to his:
vehicle curb weight wheelbase tow rating
2004 CRV 3200 lb. 103" 1500 lb.
2007 Highlander 3500 lb. 107" 3500 lb.
2008 Highlander 4000 lb. 110" 5000 lb. (my tug)
'10 Santa Fe 4cyl 3700 lb. 106" 2000 lb.
'10 Santa Fe 6cyl 3700 lb. 106" 3500 lb.
'09 Subaru Outback 3200 lb. 103" 2700 lb.

There seems to be only a tenuous correlation between rated tow capacity and the curb weight or wheelbase. The latter tend to be considered as valuable markers in a vehicle's actual capabilities for safe towing. Does a 4" WB increase and a 300 lb. weight increase justify more than doubling tow capacity (from CRV to '07 Highlander)? Does adding a 6 cylinder engine to the Hyundai Santa Fe make a safety difference versus the 4 cylinder, or is the vehicle basically safe to tow 3500 lbs with the 4-banger (but the mfr worries about drivetrain failure)? And look at that Subaru, considered by most to be a very capable tug... practically the same weight and wheelbase as the CRV, and both have 4 cylinder engines too.... yet the former has almost double the tow rating. Safety concerns? Or drivetrain longevity concerns?

I'm not in a position to get info on brake sizing, but with trailer brakes added I suspect that any of these vehicles should be able to stop within a few feet of each other. There are other factors, like rear overhang, tires, suspension. I don't have all the answers. But the CRV with trailer doesn't look like a mayhem machine to me.

Your's is the voice of informed common sense. It is refreshing in a world dominated by blind hyperbole!

[honda03842]

Honda CRV Mileage Update.
For the last 500 miles we've been averaging almost 25 mpg (24.8).

The only thing I can attribute it to is that we were driving a little slower (52-55 mph) because of yesterday's weather and Northeast traffic though we just completed a stint on the NJ Turnpike, the Garden State and CT's I 84.

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Norm may be taking a risk in terms of his own liability, but that's his call. As for tangible risk to others, I'm not so sure.

Let me compare a couple of vehicles to his:
vehicle curb weight wheelbase tow rating
2004 CRV 3200 lb. 103" 1500 lb.
2007 Highlander 3500 lb. 107" 3500 lb.
2008 Highlander 4000 lb. 110" 5000 lb. (my tug)
'10 Santa Fe 4cyl 3700 lb. 106" 2000 lb.
'10 Santa Fe 6cyl 3700 lb. 106" 3500 lb.
'09 Subaru Outback 3200 lb. 103" 2700 lb.

There seems to be only a tenuous correlation between rated tow capacity and the curb weight or wheelbase. The latter tend to be considered as valuable markers in a vehicle's actual capabilities for safe towing. Does a 4" WB increase and a 300 lb. weight increase justify more than doubling tow capacity (from CRV to '07 Highlander)? Does adding a 6 cylinder engine to the Hyundai Santa Fe make a safety difference versus the 4 cylinder, or is the vehicle basically safe to tow 3500 lbs with the 4-banger (but the mfr worries about drivetrain failure)? And look at that Subaru, considered by most to be a very capable tug... practically the same weight and wheelbase as the CRV, and both have 4 cylinder engines too.... yet the former has almost double the tow rating. Safety concerns? Or drivetrain longevity concerns?

I'm not in a position to get info on brake sizing, but with trailer brakes added I suspect that any of these vehicles should be able to stop within a few feet of each other. There are other factors, like rear overhang, tires, suspension. I don't have all the answers. But the CRV with trailer doesn't look like a mayhem machine to me.

Mike,

Interesting train of thought.

As to brakes the Honda CRV has 12 inch disk brkes front and rear. The fronts are ventilated rotors.

For comparison, the heavier Ford F150 seems to have 13 inch disks.

Of course the Tow Vehicles brakes should never be the singular solution to stopping.

Norm

[Janne Potter]

Fascinating discussion. I'm looking for a little trailer, and am driving a Honda CR-V (love it!). I've found a couple of Scamp 13s, advertised weight around 1000 lbs empty weight (my limit is 1500 lbs total). I've been told these are too heavy -- there isn't enough "head room" between the empty weight and the allowable weight. Norm, from reading your posts it sounds like you haven't problems (i.e., damage/strain to your vehicle) towing a 16 footer??

Was also reading in several other threads -- 13 foot trailers of various kinds weighing in under 1500 loaded, which seems to be contrary to concerns of the sellers I've been chatting with.

I'm so confused! I'm open to ideas, information, trailer recommendations...

[Greg H]

The weight the manufacturer gives is a dry weight, then you add propane, battery,ice,clothes, and so on that brings the weight to the real world. My Boler American was factory stamped at 950 lbs, That's dry weight.

[Janne Potter]

Originally Posted by Greg H

The weight the manufacturer gives is a dry weight, then you add propane, battery,ice,clothes, and so on that brings the weight to the real world. My Boler American was factory stamped at 950 lbs, That's dry weight.

Yep, I understand that. What I'm being told by the sellers I've been talking to is that starting from a dry weight of around 1000 pounds (which is most of the trailers I've looked at) doesn't give enough weight capacity to load up and travel with, and therefore is too much trailer for my vehicle. Does that make sense?

[Greg H]

Yes it does if you load a lot of stuff you don't need. You realize you don't need two tv's and five cases of water, some people just over do it. My Boler could leave right now and there's nowhere near 500 lbs on it. You just have to be careful what you put in there.

[Janne Potter]

Well, I don't need any TVs. That makes sense to me. Still looking...

[cpaharley2008]

Check under the thread "Trailer weights in the real world" here on the forum. There you will see weights "on the road" vs "dry weight".

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by Janne Potter

Fascinating discussion. I'm looking for a little trailer, and am driving a Honda CR-V (love it!). I've found a couple of Scamp 13s, advertised weight around 1000 lbs empty weight (my limit is 1500 lbs total). I've been told these are too heavy -- there isn't enough "head room" between the empty weight and the allowable weight. Norm, from reading your posts it sounds like you haven't problems (i.e., damage/strain to your vehicle) towing a 16 footer??

Was also reading in several other threads -- 13 foot trailers of various kinds weighing in under 1500 loaded, which seems to be contrary to concerns of the sellers I've been chatting with.

I'm so confused! I'm open to ideas, information, trailer recommendations...

Janne,

We have towed with a 2004 Honda CRV for the last four years. During that period we have towed three different trailers weighing between 2500 -2800 pounds. Our CRV has 140,000 miles (30,000 towing) on it now and have not had a single failure other than the air conditioner after 70,000 miles.

We have made a full loop of the USA towing a trailer. We have taken a trailer on the Trans Labrador Highway, a 4000 mile trip thru the backwoods, 1000 miles on dirt, crossing all kinds of grades rarely seen in the USA. Not a problem.

On our most recent trip towing the Scamp 16 we got 23 mpg and as high as 25 mpg. Every trailer has towed beautifullu though the Scamp 16 and Casita 16 towed the best. (We arrived in CT today and at a number of places gas was $4.39)

Our Maine son has towed with the Honda Element and our Seattle son tows a Scamp 13 with a Honda Accord. (I mention electric brakes later and I should say our son's Scamp does not have electric brakes).

I tow with a Honda CRV because it's rated for 3300 #s in Europe, the very same car.

We insure with Liberty Mutual, both our only car and our Scamp 16. They are well aware what we tow.

You can easily tow a Scamp 13. Personally I like the 16 better because it has electric brakes on the trailer and the typical Scamp 13 does not. In Europe Honda only allows more than 1500 pounds if you have electric brakes on the trailer.

We generally lightly load our trailer. We only carry one propane bottle. It typically lasts us more than a month on the road. We only carry a half tank of water. We only fill it if we're boondocking and then just fill it before we go in.

We never travel with full grey or black tanks. If they're full we empty them as soon as we get out of boondocking.

We do not over pack; We don't carry big grills, tents, all kinds of chairs, cooler chests, clothes that don't get worn, only one hanging outfit each,.... If we don't use it it typically doesn't make the next trip.

We don't pack in large duffles that we have to search thru, we believe in smaller containers with very defined stuff in them. There's a defined place for everything from our glasses at night to the muffins in the morning. Simply our goal is not to get as much as we can into the trailer but rather to get the stuff we need in places where we can easily get at it.

I am certain you can tow a Scamp 13 with your CRV. I am also certain you can travel comfortably without overloading it.

Please feel free to send me a private email and ask me any specific questions/

We love RVing. We do everything we can to travel safely and economically. We've owned a lot of vehicles in our lives. Acuras, Audis. VWs. Fords, Dodge, Porsche but nothing has topped the reliability of our Hondas. It has been a great tow car.

Have fun, nothing beats traveling in an RV

Norm

[mcbrew]

Just want to make a note: in Europe, they often reference "brakes" on trailers, but they are not electric like ours.... They typically use cable-operated surge brakes. The only trailer I know of that uses Euro style brakes in the US is T@B.

[rhkirkham]

Originally Posted by Janne Potter

Well, I don't need any TVs. That makes sense to me. Still looking...

Janne
I own a 2005 Honda CRV and just purchased a 13' 1973 Boler. I did this because of the advertised weight. We just took our first trip and all is good. Dry weight advertised 950lbs. I took it over a scale on our first trip and lightly loaded for a weekend was 1325lbs total. My CRV is a 4 cylinder automatic and I did not feel the trailer until I went above 90km. (55mph) At low speed it is a breeze. If you were not on the freeway you would hardly notice the trailer. I have electric brakes and would not trust stopping without them. If you want a trailer look at the Boler. The early models are the lightest. The floor is fibreglass not plywood. Pack light. Pick your beer up at every stop.
Rick