Towing Double With a Scamp 19

[papa-t]

I looked into the swivel wheel cargo carrier a few years back. It attaches to the receiver in either one to three 2" receivers; depending on which one you purchase. It cannot wig-wag and is an extension to the unit. However, some states probably also consider it a triple tow. Also the swivel wheel site doesn't recommend its on product behind travel trailers under the Swivelwheel Towing Requirements section. Here is the site. The ultimate single wheel trailer system.

[Bob Miller]

Here's a whole raft of them and the wheel is always waaaay back:
https://www.google.com/search?q=heil...4%3B1024%3B768

[frank_a]

If it was me, I would get a pickup truck that would allow the ATV to be put in the bed. I have both the truck & the ATV, but never bring the ATV camping.

Frank

[dleverton]

I suspect small boat trailers tend to be more stable than egg trailers because of the longer distance from ball to axil (easier to back up too). There is nothing inherent in trailer behind trailer that makes it any less stable than a single trailer other than the additional complexity and that they are generally not designed with that in mind. In some countries they tow more than 2 trailers. To fully analyze trailer towing trailer stability involves the two disciplines "classical mechanics" or so it used to be called, and control system theory. All the variables end up in a large equation involving calculus and Laplace. Even for a person experienced in these disciplines, this could be a daunting task as there are so many variables.
If doing it is legal where you are, and If you are determined to do the experiment, then if you do it methodically and carefully, you will end up with a stable rig. On your side is that the second trailer is light. Some additional variables are:
A tow vehicle with less overhang behind its rear axil will help.
Increasing the tongue weight on both trailers from the standard 10% to perhaps 12% to 15% of the gross weight will help. That can be done by shifting load, extending the hitch on the trailers or moving the axils rearward. Shifting load is easiest of course, but lengthening the trailer A frame would be the most effective ( like the small boat trailer).
Keep all your tire pressures up so the tires have less lateral slop.
You might get the toe in on the toe vehicle checked as it is the only axil where toe is easily adjusted.




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Doug L

[dleverton]

By the way, I really like Bob's single wheel idea.


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Doug L

[dleverton]

Sorry, Pappa T's idea


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Doug L

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by dleverton

By the way, I really like Bob's single wheel idea.
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Doug L

Errr... Please don't credit me for any "Single wheel idea". I was posting to counter the idea that a single wheel trailer would not have a lot of tongue weight when, in fact, they have a very high tongue weight. OK for pulling behind your TV, but not as a double/triple tow.

It started as a post from MC1.

[Bob Miller]

From Post #24 "If doing it is legal where you are, and If you are determined to do the experiment, then if you do it methodically and carefully, you will end up with a stable rig."
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1. That double/triple towing is illegal in at least 22 states suggests that there is some question about the safety of this practice.


2. Being "Safe" is a lot more than a hand full of math problems in the hands of someone that may not even be able to balance their checkbook.


3. Doing an "Experiment" on public highways to get things right somehow doesn't fly in my book.


4. Some combinations may never work and there is no guarantee that you will ever have a "safe" rig unless you also have a "Safe" driver.


5. Toe and Tow are two (to, too, 2) different words and no, trailer wheels don't have "tow-in"


Am eye picky today or what....? (LOL)

[dleverton]

In 1911 Clarence Figmore proposed an auxiliary vehicle towed behind a motorcar. There was much opposition as many thought their horses to be at risk if the connection mechanism were to fail. In spite of the opposition, the "traylor" was invented and as predicted there are many fewer horses on the public throughfares.🐴
In my past life, I was involved in altering trailer axil toe-in on 2 occasions. The work involved delicate tools such as torches, large hammers, trees and hydraulic jacks, but the outcome was positive. I miss plundering and decimating all of that old equipment with my Dad.


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Doug L

[Bob Miller]

Can't say that I have ever heard of Toe-In on a trailer axle (Meaning that the tires are closer together at the front than at the back) I was under the impression that toe-in was reserved for steering axles as is caster.
Wheel Toe-In and Toe-Out Theory | Technical Theory | Car Tyres Fitting and Wheel Alignment Specialists


But I have had to deal with camber and reverse camber on trailers in the past, where the bottom of the tire is closer to the other than the top or vice-versa.
Camber Angle Basics | Technical Theory | Car Tyres Fitting and Wheel Alignment Specialists

[Darwin Maring]

Look here:
The ultimate single wheel trailer system.
It attaches to the camper and actually extends the length of the camper and is not a trailer.

[dleverton]

Toe-out is a problem, and forcing toe-in is a solution. Toe-out can cause instability as explained way above. Wheel bearings are never totally tight ( you tighten them to a torque, and then back them off slightly so the bearing isn't so tight that it wears quickly). When a wheel is rolling down the road there is a frictional force rearward on the tire and the center of that force is just forward of the contact patch. That frictional force acting against the slightly loose bearing results in a slight amount of toe-out and a slight amount of negative camber. Most axle manufacturers when welding the spindles will add some toe-in to compensate.
At the cost of increased tire wear, unstable trailers can be tamed by adding toe-in.

http://trailer-bodybuilders.com/dist...mc-manual-and-

There is a utube video "Trailer Axil Straightening" showing a method of adjusting toe that is much more civilized than my Dad's hammer and tree method.

I'm guessing Gwolfe is not planning on double towing in rush hour freeway conditions, but just getting his ATV to the lake. If the rig is stable, he shouldn't wipe out too many horses.🐴


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Doug L

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Darwin Maring

Look here:
The ultimate single wheel trailer system.
It attaches to the camper and actually extends the length of the camper and is not a trailer.

It attaches to the camper and actually extends the length of the camper and is not a trailer.[/QUOTE]

To use the technical term "Ain't Gonna Happen".
Single wheel trailers require a license plate and anything you tow behind will be called trailer. In many states even a slide in camper has to have it's own license plate.

The basic rule is, if it puts a wheel on the main road, it's a vehicle.
or
If it looks like a trailer and rolls like a trailer and quacks like a trailer, it's a trailer.

[Darwin Maring]

Here is another site that has swivel wheel devices to connect to the back of your camper. It should answer if you need a licanse plate or whatever when connected to the back of your camper. Some connect and just lengthin the camper so look for yourself.
The ultimate single wheel trailer system.

[Bob Miller]

That's the same link I posted back on post #15, and it only gives the manufacturers opinion.


And, the mfg basically sez that it's not for "Lite" 5th wheel trailers, which certainly rules out the Scamp 19 being discussed. They also suggest that it's "Their opinion" that it's an extension, but acknowledge that some states may disagree.
Here's material edited out of their literature:


We have always tried to be up front and inform the customer of the requirements of the towing vehicle. Even though the Swivelwheel system was originally designed for the fifth wheel travel trailer market, there are some fifth wheel trailers that should be avoided, especially in regards to the Swivelwheel-58, Swivelwheel-58DW systems. These are the "Lite" trailers made for towing behind compact, mid-sized, and 1/2 ton pickups. These are usually below 30 feet in length and have GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) weight in the 7000-8000 pound range. It would be possible to remove enough king pin weight to make the trailer fishtail. Fishtailing is not a good sign for a fifth wheel. Once a trailer fishtails to a certain degree of angle, basically, there is no recovering. You are just along for the ride until the trailer finishes what it is going to do.




A frequent question asked is if the Swivelwheel system is legal to tow in all states. There are basically 22 states that do not allow double trailer towing, which some call "Triple Towing". These states are the entire east coast from Maine to Florida, Oregon and Washington. We consider the system an extension of the fifth wheel chassis frame. We do not consider it a trailer...... Some states may not have that same view. Always check with the states that you are traveling through for details.


Lets see: Does it have a hitch? Yes. Does it have a tire on the road? Yes.
Sounds like a trailer to moi......

[Glenn Baglo]

Yah, but it doesn't have a trailer license, so it can't be a trailer.

[Borrego Dave]

Looks like this one's going sideways now. Like the dog that won't let go of the bone........begining to sound like my ex

[gwolfe]

In Kansas if the trailer is under 2000 lbs no tag is required, we have generic "Under 2M" tags that we put on these trailers or have no tag at all. I used the generic tag on my old pop up when traveling out of state and had no problems.

Back to the OT, I emailed Scamp and they said double towing not recommended with the 19, good enough for me.

Right now I do load my ATV into the back of my truck when we go camping and ATVing, just looking for different options.

[Darrell in Al]

I've pulled my flat trailer with my 4wheeler on it behind my Scamp one or two times under special situations.. evacuating from rising river waters. It was only short distance of 9 miles controlled access roads with low speed limit.

[Darwin Maring]

An answer from Idaho Tote:

Good Day Sir:
The Idaho Tote is manufactured as an extension thus we have a place at the rear of the Idaho Tote for the plate off of you 5th wheel.
Some States, as you know, do not allow triple towing. I believe that this is noteworthy. In the 9 years and 250 units on the road today, we do not know of anyone cited for using an Idaho Tote
You thoughts Please.

Best Regards;
Greg
I.T.D.I