Handling issues (1979 Trillium / 2000 Subaru outback) - Fiberglass RV
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-10-2014, 07:06 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Name: Stephen
Trailer: Trillium
Saskatchewan
Posts: 12
Handling issues (1979 Trillium / 2000 Subaru outback)

I recently bought a 1979 Trillium (1300) and towed it twice (~225 km, from the seller, and ~10 km, in the city) since purchase. I've noticed some handling issues, and I'm looking for advice.

First, some background:
- The tongue on the frame is bent. A previous owner probably did not lift the jack before driving - this side of the a-frame is bent inwards by about an inch (see IMG_4355 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!). I am going to get this straightened by a frame repair place.
- The axle is original. The wheels on the trailer show some negative camber (top if wheel deflected inwards). It is barely noticeable when the trailer is stopped, but more noticeable in the rear view mirror when driving.

I will be replacing the axle and getting the frame straightened (the last 10 km drive was to take it to the frame and axle shop). But I am wondering if the handling problems I have can be attributed to the axle problems, or if I might be missing something else.

What I experience is this:
- At low speeds (<40 km/hr), it feels as if the tow vehicle pulses (a front-to-back pulsing)
- When the trailer goes over moderate bumps, the trailer feels like it is jerking heavily (up/down) onto the car hitch. If the trailer tongue is banging that heavily down on the hitch, it must also be pulling up with similar violence. It is at times like this that I am glad that I have the chains! This jerking occurs when the trailer goes over a bump, but this motion also occurs at other times.

I drive the trailer cautiously and smoothly (smooth movements, graduate acceleration and deceleration, etc), so I doubt a behavioural component to this problem.

I suspect that this is mostly due to the axle problem. I assume that the worn-out axle will not have the same damping problems as a properly functioning axle. The 'surging / pulsing' behaviour surprises me. Could this be an issue of the tow vehicle power or handling? My car is a 2000 Subaru Outback, with 2000 lb towing capacity. The trailer is empty (just junk from the previous owner).

I'm waiting for a quote from the shop (axle with breaks and frame straightening), and I'll follow-up with how the handling sorts out later. I just hate to spend the money and miss something else!

S.
FlatlandFlyFisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 06:31 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Jared J's Avatar
 
Name: Jared
Trailer: 1984 19' scamp
Kansas
Posts: 1,610
I know the 2" receiver on my legacy left enough play for the hitch to move, and I think the unibody makes it feel worse, along with the light tongue weight trailers our cars can handle. I've never noticed it on my pickup.

I hammered wooden door/window shims in the top and one side of the hitch as a bandaid the first time I used it. It stopped the movement and the incessant banging at every bump. 3 years later, I still use the shims. Without them, I'll go nuts the first two blocks.
Jared J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 07:55 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Bob Miller's Avatar
 
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
Welcome to the group. I'm sure you find lots of answers to your questions.... here's some for starters.

1. I would pass on the wooden shims idea. There is a "U" shaped clamp available that will take all of the play out of the drawbar/receiver connection. I never leave home without mine.

2.`You have a 35 year old trailer. The hitch could be worn, damaged or, at the very least, needs the ball clamp adjusted for a snug grip on the ball. As long as it's in the shop it might just be a good idea to get a new hitch installed at the same time. (I did)

3.Is there a chance that you are using a 1-7/8" Ball with a 2" hitch? It's happened to a number of us.

4. If you don't get a new axle, at least get the existing bearings inspected and repacked.

Good Luck and let us know how it turns out.



Bob Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:00 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Roy in TO's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1972 Boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Posts: 5,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatlandFlyFisher View Post
The wheels on the trailer show some negative camber (top if wheel deflected inwards). It is barely noticeable when the trailer is stopped, but more noticeable in the rear view mirror when driving.

I will be replacing the axle and getting the frame straightened (the last 10 km drive was to take it to the frame and axle shop). But I am wondering if the handling problems I have can be attributed to the axle problems, or if I might be missing something else.

...
I'm waiting for a quote from the shop (axle with breaks and frame straightening), and I'll follow-up with how the handling sorts out later. I just hate to spend the money and miss something else!

S.
The negative camber may be an illusion due to the body tapering in at the bottom.

I'd suggest comparing pricing for a new frame and axle vs patching the old.
Roy in TO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:02 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
Registry
Looking at your pictures it looks like fixing the bent tongue will be a good thing. But due to the all the snow in the photos and no side on picture of the trailer hard to say if the new axle will help or not but a new axle either way should help a little just not sure if it will fix the issues you have described.

Bob raised a good point in questioning if its a 2" hitch on a 1 7/8" ball?

What is the tongue weight on the trailer? I don't see a propane tank or a battery on the tongue in your photos which suggest to me the trailer is probable running way to light on the tongue which can result in the banging you hear when going over bumps

If its empty up front but stuff in the rear it may be way to light on the tongue. If you look at the Real World Trailer Weights thread it appears that the Trillium 1300 loaded would be about 1600lbs on the axle - so for a more solid tow you would be looking at a tongue weight of 10% or more 160lbs to 200lbs - well within your Outbacks tongue capacity limits (or at least it is with my 07)

Also make sure the trailer is level when towing not tongue up!
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:17 AM   #6
Junior Member
 
Trailer: No Trailer Yet
Posts: 4
I second the U shaped clamp to remove slop in the hitch/drawbar. I got mine from Amazon and I don't tow without it. About $24 as I recall.

Sent from my XT901 using Fiberglass RV mobile app
Mike Kempin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:19 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
Registry
Another thing to keep in mind is there is a nut on the inside/underside of the trailers coupler that does need to be correctly adjusted from time to time.
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:22 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kempin View Post
I second the U shaped clamp to remove slop in the hitch/drawbar. I got mine from Amazon and I don't tow without it. About $24 as I recall.

Sent from my XT901 using Fiberglass RV mobile app
You can also buy a them at Home Depot for just a few dollars
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:41 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
David Tilston's Avatar
 
Name: Dave W
Trailer: Trillium 4500 - 1976, 1978, 1979, 1300 - 1977, and a 1973
Alberta
Posts: 6,926
Registry
How much tongue weight do you have? I ask this because I experienced the same up and down jerking, when my tongue was too light.

To get a price on a new frame and axle, you could contact Joe Thoen at Trillium / Outback. (403) two seven two - 3929. He only makes 1300's, so his frame will fit your trailer exactly.
David Tilston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 12:10 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Francesca Knowles's Avatar
 
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
Registry
That frame is a mess, up front at least. Hey David- I see you're out there- aren't those bars ahead of the bottle tray add-ons? Wonder what that was all about.

To O.P.:
A competent welding shop could fix what we see, so I wouldn't replace unless the rest of the frame is messed up, too. Straightening the tongue will definitely improve tracking- the coupler itself on my 4500 was bent to one side when I got it. Fixing that made her track truer. Absolutely make sure you've got ball matched to coupler, and that the coupler itself is adjusted as snug as possible. Also, I agree that the "porpoising" you describe may well be light tongue as Carol and David suggest.

Per camber:

Bad camber would show on the tires as shoulder wear. If they're brand new, a po' man's test is to put some paint on the tread and take it for a ride. Paint will wear off in the same pattern as the rubber does, only much sooner/more visibly, of course.


Don't automatically presume the axle is shot before you eliminate these other possible anomalies. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's gone. (I'm still riding on my original!)
__________________
.................................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
Francesca Knowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 12:14 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
David Tilston's Avatar
 
Name: Dave W
Trailer: Trillium 4500 - 1976, 1978, 1979, 1300 - 1977, and a 1973
Alberta
Posts: 6,926
Registry
You are correct Francesca, those bars are an owner mod. I suspect that they are for a battery. They are also bent.
David Tilston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 12:23 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Francesca Knowles's Avatar
 
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post
You are correct Francesca, those bars are an owner mod. I suspect that they are for a battery. They are also bent.
Well, that's a lot of (amateur?) welding in a small area, which perhaps coincidentally is also where the curvature is located. Looks like the jack's an add-on, too. Excess heating can seriously weaken steel...there's a possibility (however remote) that the frame bend might be a result of that.

Again recommending that a professional welder inspect the whole shootin' match...
__________________
.................................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
Francesca Knowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 12:47 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
Excess heating can seriously weaken steel...there's a possibility (however remote) that the frame bend might be a result of that.

.
I noticed the trailer is also missing the lens cover on the front passenger side marker making me wonder if the tongue bend was possible the result of a little too much tail wagging the dog action as some point (also however remote).
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 03:20 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
sokhapkin's Avatar
 
Name: Sergey
Trailer: 2014 Scamp 16 layout 4, 2018 Winnebago Revel 4x4
SW Florida
Posts: 851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
You can also buy a them at Home Depot for just a few dollars
Here is a link. HD web site shows 1.5" clamp only. Shop SUPERSTRUT 2-in U-Bolt Strut Beam Clamp at Lowes.com
__________________
Sergey
sokhapkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 04:12 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Bob Miller's Avatar
 
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
May Not Be A Good Idea....

The construction grade "U" clamps are for static loads and are not designed for the constant loading and unloading that they will get from the drawbar stressing up and down.

At the very least I suspect that the bolts will stretch and you won't have any dampening, in a worst case you might break off the bolts and the tires on your rig might be smart enough to catch the broken parts in their treads before they fly away!

This is something where the RV designed part seems called for the first time. I've been using the same one for almost 3 years without problems.



Bob Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 05:07 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
Registry
I would say that the bow in the tongue should probably be straightened, but since you have a single axle it is doubtful that that is the cause of your handling problem. you likely have a bit of dogtracking which would be barely noticable in the rearview mirror while towing in a straight line.
I doubt it, but if it dogtracks enough, it might act up a little since it would ride the "track grooves" in the road a little to one side compared to the TV...
That might cause it to act a little squirrelly, but then again it probably has a different track than the TV anyway.
My guess is that someone jackknifed the trailer while backing up.
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 05:20 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Jared J's Avatar
 
Name: Jared
Trailer: 1984 19' scamp
Kansas
Posts: 1,610
Good luck stretching a square bolt that size with one of our trailers. The wood shims are certainly a quick way to tell if you need that clamp or not. Then again, my shims have been in there for several years now, so I don't care to buy a clamp I don't need.

If I was going that far, I would just modify by adding jam bolts to the receiver hitch like the one I did for my tractor, so I didn't have some extra doohickey to deal with.
Jared J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 06:24 PM   #18
Junior Member
 
Name: Stephen
Trailer: Trillium
Saskatchewan
Posts: 12
Hey, I love this forum! Thanks for the help and advice (including several PMs)

Here's some info:
- The negative camber of the tires was confirmed by the (n-1) owner
- The trailer is probably tongue-light, without propane or a battery box. It was used as a Craven Special for the last 4-5 years, so it was not towed long distances (Craven is a large outdoor country music festival, held in a muddy field). A Trillium is far too glamorous to be a Craven Special!
- Other than the bend in the tongue, the frame looks good (solid tube frame, no obvious cracks or rust). I had looked at a beat-up 1972 Boler previously, so I know what an ugly cracked crappy frame looks like.

Here's what I've done:
- I've take the trailer to a frame shop (A Line Frame, in Saskatoon) that specializes in frame straightening for big rigs, with a side line for camping trailers. They've confirmed problems with the camber and the wheel alignment. They inspected the axle externally and thought the rubber looked good, but you never can really tell.
- I will have them straighten the tongue and replace the receiver. I've also decided to replace the axle with a 2200# axle, with brakes.

Yeah, I won't get my money out of the trailer, but that isn't my primary concern.

I'm guessing that the "porposing" motion is what tongue-light feels like. Easy problem to fix, and it's good to know "in my bones" what that feels like.! I will be able to confirm and fix this once I get the trailer back.

I will update when I know more, in about a month.

Cheers,
Stephen
FlatlandFlyFisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 07:04 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Mike Magee's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Trailer: 2012 Escape 19
Oklahoma
Posts: 6,020
Some of that motion you're feeling may be a function of the relatively light shocks or struts in the Subaru. Any vehicle that has a very carlike ride (including my Highlander) will jiggle (or porpoise, or whatever one wishes to call it) more than a vehicle with heavier suspension (and consequent trucklike feel).

Hopefully once you get the tongue weight up to about 150-175 lbs it will be better. But your ride while towing will never be as smooth as non-towing; some of that up-and-down (forward to back) motion will always be there as you go over bumps.
Mike Magee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 07:23 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared J View Post
Good luck stretching a square bolt that size with one of our trailers. .
The U bolts they sell at hardware stores come in various sizes as well as grades/strength. The link posted wasn't actually the type I was thinking of. I know a number of RV'ers who use ones purchased from a hardware store & have used one on a hitch mount bike rake to stop the rattle as well as on a boat trailer.

The type I was think of looks pretty well the same as the anti rattle Roadmaster Quiet Hitch that trailer sells for $23.
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
trillium


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Towing with a Subaru Outback james cronn Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 0 04-16-2009 03:13 PM
Towing Casita Freedom Deluxe With Subaru Outback james cronn Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 18 04-13-2009 08:24 PM
Subaru Outback pulling 13' Trillium Marv Watson Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 30 01-19-2009 05:21 PM
2007 Subaru Outback + 13ft Scamp = 22mpg Mikeny Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 13 07-09-2008 08:18 AM
Subaru Forrester with Team Trillium Outback Brian T Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 12 05-13-2007 11:27 AM

» Trailer Showcase

Burro

Anne MP

Scamp

bippygma
» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.