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Old 05-13-2015, 04:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
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WOW, that's a very strong indictment of a vehicle. One that a number of list members seemed to be happy with the last time this came up. How about some references, or at least some specifics like:

Who are the "Towing Professionals"?
What Year and Model 4Runners were tested and with What trailers?
When were the tests done?
Why didn't they like them?
Where can these tests/opinions be seen?
My thought too..
Just what is a towing professional??? The guys who deliver RV trailers almost all drive duellys.
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Old 05-13-2015, 04:35 PM   #22
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My head-banging was a response to MC1's predictable response, not to the question that was posed.
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Old 05-13-2015, 04:42 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
Rachel, take the 4 Runner off your list as they are rated poorly by the towing professionals as far as towing capabilities.

Generally speaking any of the rest would work, personal preference comes into play here.

Why not look at Mini Vans? Honda and Toyota are very good at doing everything and much more practical than some of the vehicles you have listed.
Towed many thousands of miles with a 4Runner. You fail to realize that there are many versions of a 4Runner and many versions of towing professionals. Do you have any personal knowledge regarding towing with a 4Runner? Are you or they referring to the V6s or V8s? Manual or automatic? Were they commenting on the latest generation or an older one that is completely different? Did any of these professionals happen to say what they specifically did not like?

By the way, I have seen the "professionals" give excellent reviews regarding towing with a 4Runner. A truck base is a decided advantage when towing. I know many are using 4Runners to tow fiberglass trailers. We also had about 17mpg when towing 3500-3600 lbs. Would be good if you had any specifics.
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Old 05-13-2015, 07:33 PM   #24
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Towed many thousands of miles with a 4Runner. Did any of these professionals happen to say what they specifically did not like?
No prob Cathi. This is what the pro's had to say. No doubt the earlier versions were highlighted.

Quote: "We have set up a lot of 4Runners over the years. It is not a vehicle we would recommend for towing but a lot of people come in that already own them. The drive train works very well, there are no power issues with it.

They are one of the least stable tow vehicles you can choose however. Many of the design elements that give it great off road capabilities reduce it on highway stability when towing."
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Old 05-14-2015, 12:01 AM   #25
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Quote from whom? Again, no specifics on which 4Runners. No specifics on what they are referring to.

The SAE, however, tested 4Runners in towing tests under a variety of conditions and rated 5000 towing capacity for our particular one. There are other experts who give them high marks not to mention owners who tow with them. I still see no basis given for such a blanket statement when there are different versions of 4Runners and no indication of which are being talked about, or what their remarks are based on.
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Old 05-14-2015, 12:54 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
Rachel, take the 4 Runner off your list as they are rated poorly by the towing professionals as far as towing capabilities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
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WOW, that's a very strong indictment of a vehicle. One that a number of list members seemed to be happy with the last time this came up. How about some references, or at least some specifics like:

Who are the "Towing Professionals"?
What Year and Model 4Runners were tested and with What trailers?
When were the tests done?
Why didn't they like them?
Where can these tests/opinions be seen?
I totally agree with Bob and would like to know where you got your information. Not just quotes but actual links from the "professionals".
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Old 05-14-2015, 05:09 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by OneOleMan View Post

...... would like to know where you got your information. Not just quotes but actual links from the "professionals".
Good day Pat. I am a long time researcher of tow vehicle and combinations. Sooo.... please don't shoot the messenger....LOL

I follow info and seminar's from Garth Cane who is out of Toronto Canada. Very knowledgeable and experienced with towing, TV, and combo dynamics.

Also, one of the best resources IMHO for towing info is from these folks. The net, numerous RV magazines, towing seminars, etc have volumes pages/articles of info from this source. Do your research. Lots of good info out there.

http://www.macleans.ca/culture/getti...in-london-ont/
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Old 05-14-2015, 06:17 AM   #28
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Good day Pat. I am a long time researcher of tow vehicle and combinations. Sooo.... please don't shoot the messenger....LOL

I follow info and seminar's from Garth Cane who is out of Toronto Canada. Very knowledgeable and experienced with towing, TV, and combo dynamics.

Also, one of the best resources IMHO for towing info is from these folks. The net, numerous RV magazines, towing seminars, etc have volumes pages/articles of info from this source. Do your research. Lots of good info out there.

Getting hitched in London, Ont. - Macleans.ca
I looked at the one link you provided “Getting hitched in London, Ont.” and it’s about hitches not about TV’s and this remark in the article attributed to Andy Thompson would make anything else he says rather suspect:

“Most dealers will tell you you need a big truck to tow a trailer, but Andy will tow a 34-foot trailer with a Jaguar XJ or a Jetta Diesel.”

He may pull a 34’ trailer with a VW Jetta Diesel on his “17 acres off Highway 4” but I certainly wouldn’t want to be around when he tries to stop that thing at highway speeds or going down one of the hills in the west.
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Old 05-14-2015, 06:33 AM   #29
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Hmmmm, this is beginning to sound like a broken record from daze thought to be long gone....


Lets stick to FGRV's and actual experiences with same, rather than in opinions sourced from peeps that may have a vested interest in selling expensive hitches that we don't really need.


That "Towing Professional" lost me at towing a 34' trailer with a Jetta Diesel.



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Old 05-14-2015, 06:56 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by OneOleMan View Post
I looked at the one link you provided
With so many good towing resources out there you are off to a good start Pat. Towing forums are like politics. Everyone has a personal view. That is understandable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Humm would these be the same folks you have mentioned previously having worked for at one time and live just down the road from?
Yes, in the same way I own the Tosh-ma-hall, I'm the brother of Donald Trump, and I live down the road from Paul MaCartney in Tim-Buc-tu...... LOL
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Old 05-14-2015, 10:57 AM   #31
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I know that towing is a sensitive subject for a few people on the site.

Relating one's experience. referencing a link, giving your opinion can be dangerous.

It's certainly unnecessary to criticize a person because of their view. Just state yours and move on.

It's OK that someone's experience or reference doesn't line up with yours. If you're experience is different state it and move on, like Mike did about his 4 Runner.

It's unfortunate that often a moderator will close a thread like this when one person's view don't align with a small number of members. It's not fair that loudness wins.
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Old 05-14-2015, 11:15 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Cathi View Post
Quote from whom? Again, no specifics on which 4Runners. No specifics on what they are referring to.

The SAE, however, tested 4Runners in towing tests under a variety of conditions and rated 5000 towing capacity for our particular one. There are other experts who give them high marks not to mention owners who tow with them..
YES the SAE J2807 is indeed something the OP can use to help decide on a new tow vehicle rather than reading/hearing opinions of parties who may be somewhat biased for a variety of reasons.

The standard SAE J2807 has been adopted by pretty well all the vehicle manufactures and it applies to Light trucks, minivan, sport utility, and crossover vehicles.
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Old 05-14-2015, 12:05 PM   #33
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I tow my 13 ft Perris Pacer with a 01 Toyota 4runner and 02 Toyota Tacoma ! Both 4wd v6 ! And I get between 14-16 mpg ! Norm is about 19.5 - 22 mpg without towing ! 😎
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Old 05-14-2015, 12:19 PM   #34
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Mex Bob,

Added both vehicles to the list. What size tires do you have on the trailer?

Thank you
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Old 05-14-2015, 12:30 PM   #35
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For our AZ, NV and CA friends.

Have any of you done the Davis Dam run? On Davis Dam road are Semis always doing 35 mph or better? Also a great part of the standard is about trailers/truck combinations almost like there's a bias towards trucks as tow vehicles.

SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard
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Old 05-14-2015, 01:36 PM   #36
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I've driven the Davis Dam grade multiple times in the past 18 months, both with and without my Scamp 19 since I was helping a friend build a whitewater dory in Bullhead City. In all of that time, I NEVER saw a semi on the grade. For that matter, I never quite understood the reasoning for the Davis Dam grade being the basis for tow rating. As just one example, there's stuff on Utah's Highway 12 that is much more challenging.
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Old 05-14-2015, 03:54 PM   #37
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Also a great part of the standard is about trailers/truck combinations almost like there's a bias towards trucks as tow vehicles.
Bias towards trucks? Seriously?

The Standard was developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers which is a global professional association and standards organization for engineering professionals.

The SAE J2807 Standard has been agreed to by the vehicle manufactures to "establishes minimum performance criteria at GCWR and calculation methodology to determine tow-vehicle TWR for passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles and trucks. This includes ALL vehicles up to 13 000 lb GVWR. "

No bias towards trucks on the part of the engineers who developed the standard or the vehicle manufactures who agreed to it.

The Standard simple protects the consumer in making sure all manufactures are using the same criteria for establishing/proving a vehicles tow rating. The consumer is no longer forced to second guess how the tow rating set on a vehicle was determined. It pretty well puts the old argument we have heard here time and time again thats its simple the corporate lawyers who set the tow ratings.

As far as your question on semi's doing 35 mph on the Davis Dam goes I am not sure of the relevance to topic of the J2807 Standard as as they are all well over 13000 GVWR & are not included in the standard. To include them would be a bit like trying to comparing an apple to an orange which the stand was written/developed to avoid.

The auto manufactures do not have to use the Davis Dam itself for their testing & as I understand it many don't - they simple need to prove the vehicles ability using the grade criteria as stipulated in the actual standard. Having a set grade standard is critical to the validity of the test, without it there would be no point in it.

The Davis Dam happens to be one location that fits the grade criteria all the manufactures agreed to use. The fact is there are lots of roads of lesser grade, as well as greater grades that many of us have towed on. So one could also ask why did they not just set it at the highest grade tourist can be found pulling trailers around on? Would that not from a safety standard perspective be a better test? My guess is the manufactures would never have agreed to that as that would have taken many of the lighter smaller vehicles right out of the towing picture and made the test as you suggest biased to the larger trucks.

If there is a bias it is only on the part of the consumer in so far as trucks are by far the most poplar vehicle used for towing and such you will find more stories written about the SAE standard in publications catering to the truck crowd.
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Old 05-14-2015, 04:41 PM   #38
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I read the document through, I think 3 times over the years.

I agree they have the general inclusive statement in the first part but when you read the test sections it's refers to trucks and trailers.

I was wondering about the 35/40 mph criteria and wondering if semis have to meet it as well. I know in driving over the hump to Pahrump, NV (no Davis Dam Road) the semis are really slow with flashers blinking.

Nothing to be upset about here.

By the way, though trucks are popular tow vehicles for fiberglass RV, the majority of the people on the spread sheet do not tow with a truck. (I know the sample size is only about 100 but it's what we have.)

I expect the truck manufacturers would like it if people used trucks for towing, trucks are typically their most profitable vehicle.
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Old 05-14-2015, 04:59 PM   #39
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Old 05-14-2015, 06:43 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
I read the document through, I think 3 times over the years.

I agree they have the general inclusive statement in the first part but when you read the test sections it's refers to trucks and trailers.

I was wondering about the 35/40 mph criteria and wondering if semis have to meet it as well. I know in driving over the hump to Pahrump, NV (no Davis Dam Road) the semis are really slow with flashers blinking.

Nothing to be upset about here.

By the way, though trucks are popular tow vehicles for fiberglass RV, the majority of the people on the spread sheet do not tow with a truck. (I know the sample size is only about 100 but it's what we have.)

I expect the truck manufacturers would like it if people used trucks for towing, trucks are typically their most profitable vehicle.

Upset? Nay!

Keep in mind that % of folks towing light small fiberglass trailers is a very small number in the total trailer world! ;-)

While there may be a higher profit in trucks a number of the auto makers who agreed to test their vehicles using the SAE J2807 don't have a truck in their line up at the time they made the agreement. Jeep, Honda, Subaru and Mazada are just a few I can think of.
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