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Old 01-25-2013, 05:15 PM   #21
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did a google...

Approximate Heating Value of Common Fuels

Natural Gas 1,030 Btu/cu ft 100,000 Btu/therm
Propane 2,500 Btu/cu ft 92,500 Btu/gal
Butane 3,200 Btu/cu ft 130,000 Btu/gal

Electricity 3412 Btu/kilowatt hour

Don't know what it means : ) but there it is.

Then i read another article here:
"...it is accurate to say that propane contains over twice the usable energy content per cubic foot (2.44 times more). Applying these numbers to compare the energy values in real-world examples, we'll use a 100,000 BTU/hr furnace to demonstrate the comparison.
  • 100,000 BTU/hr furnace will use about 97 cubic feet of natural gas (100,000 ÷ 1,030 = 97.1) in one hour
  • 100,000 BTU/hr furnace will use about 40 cubic feet of propane (100,000 ÷ 2516 = 39.7) in one hour"
But if you factor in $ for heating value... IMO butane is more expensive than propane, which is already more expensive than natural gas in most locations.

Though a friend of mine did the calculations on Propane verses Electricity and IF Propane is running in the neighborhood of ~$3.25 and electricity is running ~$0.12 per KWH...it is break even in expense/utility. That is why, for now with prices as they are, we have our Mobile Suite set to all electric Heat/Cook/etc.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:15 PM   #22
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It sounds like you've really thought this through, Thom!

I do have just one options-preserving suggestion, though:

You might consider having Chandler install the propane plumbing during the build. Having it already properly installed and off course capped at various outlet spots may prove useful someday, should you ever change your mind about how to use the trailer. Much simpler/neater to do it now than later as a retrofit...And certainly, if you ever decided to sell for any reason, that factory installed gas plumbing might make a difference, buyers/wise.

Just my thoughts...keep us posted!

Francesca
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:26 PM   #23
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
...You might consider having Chandler install the propane plumbing during the build. Having it already properly installed and off course capped at various outlet spots may prove useful someday...
Valid point Francesca. What i did see as to the propane "plumbing" in the Parkliner could easily be done at a later date by a certified RV shop without more than ~2 hours shop time plus parts IMO. Very, Very easy to work on this particular frame/egg. Access is wide open and no real hidden areas.

: ) Thom
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:46 PM   #24
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I like the amenities. But I can understand some folks not wanting them. Reading the recent comments made me think of my eldest brother. He's 70 and an avid outdoorsman. Once a year he goes tent camping for a few nights in the snow. I mean, ten degrees and wind (with no heat source in the tent, other than body heat) are just fine with him! He relishes that time spent in extreme "roughing it" and takes pride that he can still do it.

If doing without certain amenities gives more enjoyment to the camping couple, then by all means do what you enjoy; it's worth the price of admission.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:58 PM   #25
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Lightbulb

butane stove note...

This is the stove we've used for some time:



1 Burner Portable Gas Stove - Carrying Case included - 10,000 BTU's - Iwatani - ZA3-HP

This high power stove is designed for reliable outdoor and indoor cooking. It is ideal for table-top cooking, patio parties, and camping because the stove is portable. With a screw-in brass burner, heavy duty pan support, automatic safety shut off device and plastic case for carrying and storage, this stove is easy to maintain, clean, and take wherever its desired!

We pick up the butane canisters for about $2 each that get ~8 uses per canister for us.

During the summer months we usually cook outdoors on a small folding aluminum table as i stated elsewhere.

Here is the Heater/Stove combo we use as needed.



Only has ~5200 BTUs so it takes a while to boil water (~8 min a quart??) but it works and as noted before, put an ounce in the "SafeFlame" non pressurized canister and it will burn itself out in about 15 minutes or so. Nice to take the chill off in the evening if desired. We've even sat it on a small table next to the camp chairs for a outdoor heat source. Clean and simple.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:01 PM   #26
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I have one of those little butane burners! I got it at the Korean grocery in Tacoma (fuel's cheap there, too), and I mostly use it for "hot pot" suppers- it's good for Korean BBQ, too, but that gets pretty messy.

It's really great for tabletop cooking....

Francesca
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:07 PM   #27
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Thanks Mike, sounds like your brother is quite active at 70 braving the elements like he does. Awesome.

I agree it looks like we are giving up some amenities. Guess i never thought of it that way, just amenities (heat/cooking/bathing/etc) in a simple way.

There is a reason for this behavior...I had a water manifold go out in an RV basement once. It was a PITButt to fix. Then i had a water heater go out. Again, PITButt to replace. I realize some peeps are really adept at these sort of equipment replacements, i'm not one of them. I'm also sort of anal in that i like to understand/know all details of systems. This way, i should be able to understand systems from bumper to hitch and how to get in and fix/repair/replace things.

: ) Francesca, yuppers, easy to work! and convenient if your event calls for table-side cooking.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:49 PM   #28
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I looked at that bed system you have, and it looks interesting but I'm not sure I understand it fully. One places the base pieces, then attaches the springs onto the base pieces... and then what? Does the "then what" come in the kit, or do you have to get it elsewhere? The instructions at their website sort of stop after the "add springs" step. I don't imagine one just puts a sheet over the springs..... right?

Yes, my brother and his wife are very fit. They walk several miles a day, he hunts, etc. He ran track in senior olympics and won medals at the national level. I get tired just thinking about it!
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:59 PM   #29
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Lightbulb

Hi Mike, on the Froli... here are a couple pix from my Sportsmobile forum build thread:

This one shows the 3/4" ply base with Froli base + springs:



There are different firmness included...the light blue are typically placed in the area of the shoulders and give more than the dark blue. Think of it as light vs firm or something like that : )

This one shows the completed _bed_ as we installed into our van with a 4" gel-foam topper we purchased at Costco:



now just toss on your sheets/blankets or bed-roll and you are good to go.

Real easy and comfy!

On your brother's level of fitness... i too would get tired reading that!
My 93 year old dad still ballroom dances. That might be a close second : )

Cheers,
Thom
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:07 PM   #30
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Thanks, I see now. Gel foam topper on the springs... no wonder you like that bed! Nice and cushy. Seems easy enough, too. I just didn't know if they were including some sort of padded covering over the springs or something, but the foam will do the job.
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:43 PM   #31
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I'm following the "Frolly" bed with much interest- I absolutely REFUSE to sleep on foam-without-springs, and I had no idea there's an alternative to old fashioned cross-sprung camp-type beds.

Thanks a bunch for bringing these to my attention!

Francesca
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:19 PM   #32
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Lightbulb

The "Froli" Frolly was the one European inventor's solution to the issue of moisture/mold buildup under a typical yacht berth cushion. What takes place with the combination of spring + pad is your mattress feels supportive, without the bite that one might feel if just a foam pad was in use. And the added benefit of adequate air circulation under the pad.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:38 PM   #33
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Another reason I didn't want a heavy refrigerator, a noisy gas furnace, and gas water heater to maintain was that all those items need vent areas on the trailer. I prefer a smooth fiberglass surface that neither bugs nor water can penetrate.

I did not want an air conditioner on top as that would be a wind drag and if it is so hot I need air conditioner then it is too hot for me to camp.

Simple/Minimal, either works for me.

Nancy
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:59 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy View Post
...Simple/Minimal, either works for me...
We are kindred spirits Nancy!
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:23 PM   #35
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I can see how the shape-adjustable Froli could be very good in an egg with its rounded corners.

Nancy, I tend to agree with your sentiment about "too hot to camp." My trouble is that in summer I can't get anywhere cool in a day's drive. So I need AC at least for the first night out and last night back. Coming home from Glacier NP 2 years ago in July, my final night in the OK panhandle (Black Mesa SP) it was 110 degrees when I set up camp at 6 pm.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:45 PM   #36
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Most of the summer its manageable, but sometimes it gets so humid that everything just feels damp and I will fire up my little honda 2000 and turn on the ac to sleep... but at that point its usually 3am and me and my friends are usually pretty trashed and Im thinkin if I built out of foam a 3 sided box with a closed top and face the open side away and park my caravan 100feet back from their tents, Im doubting its gonna be so loud...my friend uses a HF genertor in its 1/4" plywood shed for electricity in his place and honestly 20 feet away its not that bad...sometimes you have to get comfortable!

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Old 01-27-2013, 07:45 AM   #37
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Congrats Thom, I'm sure you will enjoy the new Parkliner.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:21 PM   #38
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Smile

Thanks Tim. Happy to join the Parlkiner family, and happy big time because it's an Egg !

Thanks also for any behind the scene assistance in our search (you know what i'm talkin' about : )

Thom
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:32 PM   #39
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Yuppers on the variable bed-shape Mike. L, V, U whatever shape you can think of. . . just clip the lower support system together and then pop in the springs! We will probably mount a set under the main U shaped sitting area of the Parkliner at some point. We envision our two adult kids being able to use it when we do our annual camp out on the Rogue River panning for gold : )

Mike & deryk, i feel your pain on the too-hot-to-camp issue. My wife and i are what i would call weather weenies! So we just hang out in Washington/Oregon/Northern California mountains spring through fall. There is enough to see so i suppose we would always have something new to explore for at least the next 20 years...all without the need for A/C or even much heat for that matter. Once we unplug from our jobs in a few years we will visit families in dryer southern states during the winter months. We have kicked around the idea of setting up a reflective covering of sorts but don't recall anytimes that the temp became uncomfortable for more than the few minutes it took to crank up the fantastic fan after returning to camp from river/panning.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:35 PM   #40
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Mike, we have had to motel 2 nights in Walla Walla, WA because it was too hot. We have also spent a couple other nights in the Dakotas too hot. To get to the coast we try to get to higher elevation on the nights we can. Too often we have driven more miles than we want because the alternative is to stop and be too hot, driving in the air conditioned car is what we have to do.

Yes, an air conditioner would be nice, but I'm not too sure I would like the noise provided I could find electricity.

I really do understand that most people need it. You won't find us going to OK in the summer!

Nancy
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