Caution - Shady underworld Boler flippers at play - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-08-2007, 06:41 PM   #21
Member
 
Nicole M.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 1981 Trillium 4500
Posts: 31
My husband and I have bought many RV's, trailers etc. We bought them in rough condition, fixed them up, used them for a bit, then sold or traded them for something else. If we made a few bucks, great!

But, what I think is a big issue here, is that many times when we are selling something we will make special considerations a particular situation. A dealer or someone who is going to profit on it would not get as good a price as say, a couple or family just starting out, who don't have a lot to invest in something like that. We would weigh the situation and at times would get caught up and let something go for a bit less, because of the buyer's personal circumstances.

Maybe we shouldn't but we do. I would hate to think that we would be misled and our generosity would be taken advantage of...Now that burns me.....

So what happened in BC will make me think twice about the sale pricing....and how much to bend...
Nicole M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2007, 08:28 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Gina D.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: Former Burro owner and fan!
Posts: 9,015
Registry
There are valid points on both sides.

When I sold my 13, my intention was to get what I thought was a fair price out f it, based on what I put in (Which I did not recoup completely) what it was reasonably worth, and what I thought a reasonable person who was going to enjoy it would pay. I could have sold it for more, but why hassle with it trying to squeeze the last dime out. It served my purpose while owning it, and I felt I did a fair deal with the buyer. I wasn't ripped off, and neither was he. I lost nothing.

I won in both directions, the buyer has kept in contact with me and shared his mods and repairs, so in a completely wierd way, I am still tied to it, and get to enjoy it through the internet.

Do I feel it's still mine? No. If he were to turn around and sell it now for more money, would I feel hurt or like I lost something? NO. It's his to do with as he pleases. He paid for it and fulfilled his obligation to me. Story over. Anything else is pleasant, but not obligatory.

On the other hand, when I purchased the 17, I briefly thought of flipping it because of what I paid. I didn't because my intent in purchase was to USE it, not make money. If I flipped it, I would have only had to search for another of equal value and spend all that I "saved" buying this one. I haven't shared what I paid until now, because, frankly, it's no ones business specifically but mine and the guy I bought it from, but it has relevance to this thread.... so here goes.

I paid 5k for it. Deal of the century? Close. Could I have turned around the next day and sold it here for 8k? Probably. Or at least close to it. Do I feel I ripped the seller off? Not really, but the words "I wasn't going to educate him on it's value" have been said here by others, and by myself in this purchase. Those words do have a pang of shadyness, even if there was no direct intent at my original inquiry to take advantage of him. If I had knocked on his door and said something like "Hey, I'll give you 5k for that scrap heap and wouldn't it be nice to get it out from in front of your house?" when he really had not thought about selling it WOULD have been shady.

He feels he got a good price, was also happy I was going to use it and I feel I got an outstanding deal We were both happy. I *may* have taken advantage of the situation, but did I really take advantage of him? I still don't know, but if the answer is "yes", it was only slightly at best. As mentioned, he was happy, and I guess thats what counts. The fact that I would have also have been happy to pay 8k for it really doesn't come into play. The fact that he didn't react when I didn't try to "make a deal" should have been his hint, and he didn't take it. It was a very quick transaction. I practically threw the cash at him

In this situation, or any other buying situation, I doubt there is anyone here with serious intent of buying something that would tell the seller he wasn't asking enough.
Gina D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2007, 09:12 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Gina D.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: Former Burro owner and fan!
Posts: 9,015
Registry
I will also add... (Haven't you had enuff? )

For some unknown reason, there is a faction of buyers who feel they have every right to negotiate a price based on what YOU paid for the item when you got it. They feel they are getting ripped off or something if you ask more than what you paid. Why? I haven't a clue.

What something is worth is what it's worth, regardless of what price was paid for it by the seller. High... or low.
Gina D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2007, 09:43 PM   #24
Member
 
Kristen Beck's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2005 Scamp 13 ft
Posts: 61
Registry
Send a message via MSN to Kristen Beck Send a message via Yahoo to Kristen Beck
Wow, no kidding some people will do anything for a buck. it's a shame when you think it is going to a nice home and you find out it's going to a trailer lot. I have strange connections with cars etc. and get kind of sad when we sell something especially if you have put a lot of time and love into restoring it. So, I would probably shed a little tear to see it sitting without a family on a cold lot. I'm all for free enterprise but also be honest about what your intentions are, the seller was honest about what needed to be done. Just a little disturbing. Call me sensative, it's the estrogen in me!

Kristen
Medford Oregon
Kristen Beck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2007, 09:54 PM   #25
Member
 
Darren C's Avatar
 
Trailer: Star Stream 19ft Aluminum
Posts: 45
Quote:
lots of text ....
You make lots of good points Gina and I won't disagree with any one of them. But you fail to respond to the dishonesty issue of 'outright lying' in order to mislead.

Who cares about the price?? Personally, I think it was worth what the buyer paid - and only what the buyer paid. In good conscience I couldn't have asked more. But thinking that someone will pay $7900 for the trailer in its current shape, with no value added, pains me a little, partly because the only buyer that will pay that fee for it will, IMHO, not have sufficient exprience or knowledge to know any different.

Right you are - the market will dictate the price. That is true and it always will be in a free market economy. And I'm all for that.

But, other than the deceipt, I don't like businesses praying on unsuspecting buyers. And I believe that's what this particular group of individuals is doing.

How do you respond to those two points?
Darren C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2007, 10:15 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Gina D.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: Former Burro owner and fan!
Posts: 9,015
Registry
Quote:
How do you respond to those two points?
There is no question that the buyer lied to you about their intentions, and it serves as a good warning to those that might buy from this dealer, or at least a heads up that they use deceptful practices in buying. Probably is a given they do so in selling as well.

I feel for you that you did not have direct contact with the good home it will most likely go to eventually. We all have an emotional bond to our rigs and like to think someone will love them as much as we did.

As far as the person that will end up buying it from the dealer, well, Pete mentioned used car dealers, and if one does not go in with the caution one should with a dealer, well..they are not being very smart.

In short, we can not protect the world from a bad transaction. I won't even say "bad".. it's just a transaction most of us would not make. But we researched first.

The dealer is not going to twist the buyers arm. In the end, it is ultimately the buyers decision. All you can say if asked is "I don't think it's worth it". But the buyer is ultimately responsible for any transaction, barring outright deceit.....charging too much is not deceitful in my book. Lieing about conditions is.
Gina D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2007, 10:31 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Trailer: 1985 17 ft Burro
Posts: 135
It all worked out for the best in the end. We purchased a Burro (in bad shape) on Ebay that was only one hour South of our home. It has been rebuilt from the frame up and will be better than new. We were able to camp in it last year but it needs a lot more work.

Just want to add that although I have had personal attachments to large items (cars, houses, etc) I never tracked them after selling them...unless I sold it to a friend because there is that underlying guarantee that the object would not break down or fall apart immediately after changing possession. Jim Gilb wanted to offer someone from this community a good price for his trailer...he was selling everything and going to the Peace Corps. When I spoke to Jim on the phone he told me the name of the other person interested in the trailer. I said that he was a dealer that frequently perused this Fiberglass site to purchase and resell fiberglass trailers. Jim said no way, he talked to the guy on the phone for about a half an hour, he was really nice and went into details how he and his wife were going to use the trailer and enjoy it.

We are a community, we help each other, share personal information, offer suggestions, and give & take. What bothers me is this dealer took from our community. I'd feel the same way if someone took any "Pay It Forward" items we offer each other, and sold it for a profit on Ebay. It's just not right.
D Shubel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2007, 11:17 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Trailer: Burro 17 ft Widebody
Posts: 868
Registry
Interesting thread. When the fellow who sold the Burro to me offered it for about 6 grand less (all I could afford) than he had bought it for 2 weeks earlier (new) I felt I could not just take it and run. Funny thing about your conscience catching up with you eventually.

Just to make sure he understood what he was doing I asked him: "You realize you are taking a bath selling it to me at this price, don't you?" He admitted that he was fully aware of the situation, but due to extenuating circumstances he had no problem with the transaction. I was quite happy to get a serious bargain price and even happier that I didn't inadvertently con someone who just didn't know any better. As for flipping, ain't gonna happen for a loooong time.
Per Walthinsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2007, 02:03 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
Greg A's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1981 13 ft Scamp / Nissan Titan
Posts: 1,852
At this point Darren's Ex-Boler hasn't sold for $7900 they're just asking that. Kind of like what people list their houses for, sometimes you wonder what they're smoking.
It would be interesting to know ultimately what they actually get for it as to whether it will turn out to their advantage. Still, even though it is a part of our world, one shouldn't condone their methods.
__________________
Owner:
Fiberglass-RV-4Sale.com
Scamp Owners International
2015 Escape 19 & 1997 Scamp 19
Greg A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2007, 03:48 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
Joe MacDonald's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1981 Trillium 5500
Posts: 1,158
There's a fellow up here doing the flip thing too.
he sells about 4-6 trilliums a year.
I wouldn't mind if he was just honest about it, But I got the big song and dance about how he just didn't use it much anymore, and his attempts at repairs were very poor.

Joe
Joe MacDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2007, 06:03 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
Bob Miller's Avatar
 
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
Darren and Others

No question that there are a lot of "Flippers" out there. We all remember the Burro that showed up last month here in Riverside that Gina and I both deemed was a rebuilding project only that was then sold, "fixed up", and resold a week later on eBay. In that case the second seller in one week "suggested" that he had owned it considerably longer than 3 days, thus making his sale sound more like a long time owners selling for a good reason. He even went so far as to describe how his kids liked sleeping in it!

This is where the question of honesty outweighs that of legality. I can't tell you of how many ads that I had seen and replied to where the seller had "used" the trailer/motor home for many seasons, but didn't know anything about how to set it up, or even turn on the lights!!! I have even looked at a "One Owner" motor home that was being sold by the "original owner", that was advertised as having a generator, and one wasn't even installed!! He claimed that he always used 110 power and, in three years never needed to start the generator. No, there wasn't even a generator control panel to be seen either.

I have learned to ask questions to "Prove" that the seller is telling the truth about ownership and condition. When they use statements like "everything appears to work" or "I never used the stove, heater, water tanks etc" I see a red flag and start pricing down to below average sale prices because it usually indicates that the seller is A) dishonest B) Doesn't know or care if he is selling you a P>O>C, C) Is concealing known problems or D) Flipping for profit or E) All of the above.

In California a "dealer" has to disclose that they are a dealer and also the source of a used vehicle/trailer before it is sold (but you have to ask ) Thus, a late model car that I recently looked, that was described as a "Trade In on a New Car", when asked about, was actually a repo that came to the dealer through an auto auction.

Ask all the wrong questions and you might get a right answer.

I don't mind making a little money if I find a good buy, but being honest is what it is still all about.

Good Luick out there

Bob Miller in hot and sunny, Riverside, CA



Bob Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2007, 08:19 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
Mike Watters's Avatar
 
Trailer: TrailManor (Gone to the Darkside)
Posts: 466
Quote:
I have learned to ask questions to "Prove" that the seller is telling the truth about ownership and condition. When they use statements like "everything appears to work" or "I never used the stove, heater, water tanks etc" I see a red flag and start pricing down to below average sale prices because it usually indicates that the seller is A) dishonest Doesn't know or care if he is selling you a P>O>C, C) Is concealing known problems or D) Flipping for profit or E) All of the above.
I can, in complete honesty, report: I've never used the stove or sink in the trailer I've owned for the last 4 or 5 years. I've never run the fridge on anything but 110 either...

Mike Watters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2007, 08:20 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
CharlynnT's Avatar
 
Trailer: Boler 17 ft
Posts: 510
Quote:
Basically, except for the misleading statement of intentions regarding the purchase and use (which really have no effect on the transaction like it would with something like a pet adoption), I personally see nothing wrong. \
I'm going to chime in here. I have often described my feelings toward my Boler -- which many friends and family raise their eyebrows at -- as "I love it like a pet."

Maybe it's "feeding the fibreglass" that makes it so much like a not-yet-ready for pasture horse. I wouldn't want to entrust it to someone who claims to want to bring it into the family, just to see them sell it for Glue.

Going to my room now. GTMRN
CharlynnT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2007, 08:34 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
CharlynnT's Avatar
 
Trailer: Boler 17 ft
Posts: 510
Quote:
I honestly can't blame a seller for trying to maximize their profit; that's what free enterprise is all about.
Sorry, I needed a glass of water so came out of my room and couldn't help but interject again.

My boss and I had a sales trip this week and were discussing how sometimes naive buyers, wanting The Best (wanting to avoid Buyer's Remorse) ask for the top of the line. They ask her for a $30,000 machine when what they really require is, at the most, a $10,000 machine.

She told me how here hubby asked her if she were Nuts when she said, that in all good conscience, she couldn't, would not, over-sell for a quick buck.

Our business is built on customer retention, word of mouth and repeat sales, reputation. THAT is how to maximize profit.

GTMRN, again
CharlynnT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2007, 08:45 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
CharlynnT's Avatar
 
Trailer: Boler 17 ft
Posts: 510
Quote:
There are valid points on both sides.
the words "I wasn't going to educate him on it's value" have been said here by others, and by myself in this purchase.
Egg-ZACKLY!
"You know, if you put this up on E Bay, and aranged Pay Pal, and offered shipping, you could get a lot more for it in three or four weeks, checking your computer daily or maybe five times a day, than me wandering right into your yard right now and offering cash!" (Maybe the seller already knew that.)

It seems were are not sure if Sellers are Slick (and Slimey) or if Buyers are the Sneaky ones... I am in Sales, and get this vibe often.

I enjoy this thread and insist on staying up past my bedtime.
CharlynnT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2007, 10:48 PM   #36
Member
 
Darren C's Avatar
 
Trailer: Star Stream 19ft Aluminum
Posts: 45
Let's not get confused here .... because there is two aspects to this.

My original post was about buyers mis-representing their intentions, as happend here. Many of the posts refere more to sellers disclosing things. Not the same thing.

We're not talking about sellers' disclosure here - that's expected AND required - by law and society - for the seller to be honest and not mis-represent.

But a buyer can lie their face off? Don't you guys have a problem with that?

Looks at it this way. If a SELLER were to lie about a product, the buyer might make the decision to purchase (or not) at a certain price based on what they were told.

Yet if a buyer lies to a seller - and the seller makes a similar decision on whether to sell or not to that buyer and at what price - then it's 'tough luck', Mr/Ms Seller, after the transaction.

Others have expressed it previously - that if buyers are open and honest and have nothing to hide, why not disclose their intentions? And the seller can make an informed decision.

Darren.
Darren C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2007, 11:18 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
Bob Miller's Avatar
 
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
Darren

Your point about honest buyers is well taken.

What I am saying, is that I have often been exposed to said buyers after they have bought from a prior party, perhaps under some guise, such as to take their 17 kids to see the Grand Canyon, at a below market price, who then turn around and misrepresent what they are selling. The "Flippers" as we are calling them, as a group, seem to have less than honorable standards in selling as well as when buying.

I have been very surprised to find out just how many RV sellers on ebay, Craig's List and RVTraderonline.com are just "flipping" something they bought to make a buck. That's OK, but most also attempt to enhance the story they give to prospective sellers about prior ownership etc.

Where my motorhome sits is clearly visible from a busy street. I get 2-3 knocks on my door a month from people that want to buy it as "a home for old Dad", "a place for a homeless family to live", or as "an RV for our large family", and then offer a price of 50% or less of it's current private party value. The faces change, but the story is always the same. I would be willing to take a small bet that if I sold to any of these "lookers" that it would be on eBay in a week.

As it is often said, buyer beware!

Bob Miller in Riverside



Bob Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2007, 06:11 AM   #38
Senior Member
 
Gina D.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: Former Burro owner and fan!
Posts: 9,015
Registry
Quote:
"You know, if you put this up on E Bay, and aranged Pay Pal, and offered shipping, you could get a lot more for it in three or four weeks, checking your computer daily or maybe five times a day, than me wandering right into your yard right now and offering cash!" (Maybe the seller already knew that.)
Absoluetely! I sold my Element on almost the exact circumstances (Co-incdently not 48 hours AFTER I had cut the deal for the 17) I had THOUGHT of selling it in the back of my mind, but wasn't really doing anything about it. I wasn't actually solicited to sell it, a casual comment set the buyer into "Buy" mode when I had mentioned I was *Thinking* of selling it. I sold it for what I KNEW was under market value, but not unreasonably, because the circumstances fell into place. I didn't have to hassle with ads, and showings and getting into the vents with Q-Tips to prep etc.. basically, I drove into a car wash, and the car wash owner drove ME out in it, while I was holding a bundle of cash in my pocket.

The odd thing was, I was 100% positive he would flip it, as I knew he was also a wholesaler. He gave me some line about wanting it for his wife, the doctor, and his kids yada yada.. trying to talk me DOWN from the already fantastic price I gave him. I told him "Look, I don't care if you want to drive it off a cliff, this is what the price is, firm.

Much to my suprise, he DOES actually drive it himself. I drive by it everyday on my way to work! It sits at the carwash without a for sale on it and since it moves from parking space to parking space, I can only assume it is being used.

Once again, everyone happy. He has a good car, and I virtually had to do nothing to sell it. I don't regret not getting what it's market value would have been, my time, or the time I saved, was worth that.
Gina D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2007, 06:59 AM   #39
Senior Member
 
Herb P's Avatar
 
Trailer: Boler 1700SGH (Stage II twoftitis)
Posts: 284
Incidentally, for those of you not on the delphi boler forum (why does that still exist anyway?), Kersti Clark posted a response to this thread....

delphiforums
Herb P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2007, 07:40 AM   #40
Senior Member
 
Trailer: 2007 17 ft Casita Spirit Deluxe
Posts: 183
Gina,

That's what I do as well (set a fair price and stick with it). If I was the kind of a person that became physically and emotionally attached to my positions I would go crazy. I have sold so many guitars, vehicles, houses, and many other items I put a lot of time in fixing or building that I decided a long time ago to not look back once the deal was done.
Gary Lynch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boler, play–pac


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"customized"scamp ultralite-shady cove, OR Greg A Classified Archives 10 01-31-2009 06:15 PM
CAUTION - New Virus Bigfoot Mike Jokes, Stories & Tall Tales 11 01-10-2007 07:32 AM
Caution - Shady underworld Boler flippers at play Classified Archives 0 01-01-1970 12:00 AM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.