Scamp sway

[JT33]

I just bought a 98 Scamp 16ft an upgrade from a 73 Trillium. I added a bike rack to the back which seems to have caused a sway to happen, take the bikes and rack off tows fine. Does anyone have any ideas on the subject. Thanks John T.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by JT33

I just bought a 98 Scamp 16ft an upgrade from a 73 Trillium. I added a bike rack to the back which seems to have caused a sway to happen, take the bikes and rack off tows fine. Does anyone have any ideas on the subject. Thanks John T.

You have solved your own problem and you are not the first to experience this.. or the 350th either.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by JT33

I just bought a 98 Scamp 16ft an upgrade from a 73 Trillium. I added a bike rack to the back which seems to have caused a sway to happen, take the bikes and rack off tows fine. Does anyone have any ideas on the subject. Thanks John T.

yup , here's my idea...( thanks for the picture Mary)

[Glenn Baglo]

Putting the bikes on the tongue will increase tongue weight. Note that Floyd has no propane tanks on the tongue ( or did you take them off for the picture ?).
Moving weight from one place to another is going to alter performance.

[Jon in AZ]

The weight at the back has likely reduced tongue weight below the recommended 10-12% of total weight. Short-term solution is to add weight to the front of the trailer and reduce speed. Long-term solution might involve relocating at least one of the bicycles. It may depend on what kind of bikes they are and how much they weigh.

We do carry two on the back of ours without sway, but they are very light aluminum-framed bicycles, about 30 pounds each. Some large steel-framed bikes can approach twice that. We have nothing else heavy aft of the axle, and chairs, awning, ice chest, and water jug are stowed forward.

This is definitely not something to blow off. Sway is very dangerous. Here are some things that help:

• Concentrate cargo weight over the axle rather than on the ends of the trailer.
• Maintain at least 10-12% tongue weight.
• Install ST tires designed for trailers with stiffer sidewalls.
• Inflate tires to the maximum pressure on the sidewall.
• Empty the water tank.
• Slow down.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Putting the bikes on the tongue will increase tongue weight. Note that Floyd has no propane tanks on the tongue ( or did you take them off for the picture ?).
Moving weight from one place to another is going to alter performance.

There are no propane tanks on that tongue because the rack was just fabbed and installed Friday,the day the picture was taken. The double tank rack was removed for the install and a single will replace it when the brackets are purchased. This is for fit and convenience, weight is only a secondary consideration.
Actually two decent bikes weigh little more than one full propane tank, the application in post#3 will add less than a net twenty pounds to the tongue including the bikes.
Below find my two bike rack which was my first design (now twelve years of successful towing).... note that the pictures are all at near maximum turning point.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

The weight at the back has likely reduced tongue weight below the recommended 10-12% of total weight. Short-term solution is to add weight to the front of the trailer and reduce speed. Long-term solution might involve relocating at least one of the bicycles. It may depend on what kind of bikes they are and how much they weigh.

We do carry two on the back of ours without sway, but they are very light aluminum-framed bicycles, about 30 pounds each. Some large steel-framed bikes can approach twice that. We have nothing else heavy aft of the axle, and chairs, awning, ice chest, and water jug are stowed forward.

This is definitely not something to blow off. Sway is very dangerous. Here are some things that help:

• Concentrate cargo weight over the axle rather than on the ends of the trailer.
• Maintain at least 10-12% tongue weight.
• Install ST tires designed for trailers with stiffer sidewalls.
• Inflate tires to the maximum pressure on the sidewall.
• Empty the water tank.
• Slow down.

I don't doubt your weight estimates, in fact my CRO-MO 820 weighs over 30 pounds with a loaded trunk on a rear rack, two bottle racks, etc. The trunk includes pump, tube, tools and a back pack. (27 pounds for the bike alone)
You got me curious so I went out and weighed two of my other bikes...

1988 Trek 400... double butt welded CRO-MO frame, fork and pedals, steel bar with clips, bottle racks and seat pack installed....24 pounds

1988 Trek 1400...glued aluminum frame,aluminum fork and bar with clips, seat pack and bottle rack....23 pounds.

I discarded the three position bars on both bikes and installed custom bars of my own design on each.
A bit of a surprise that the difference was only one pound.

Then there is the new Trek Emonda the lightest production bike in the world......
The Émonda is not just a super light dream bike, it is a full line of bicycles starting with the $1650 Émonda S4 that weighs 19.27lbs, to the $15750, 10.25lb Émonda SLR 10. An Émonda SLR frameset is $4200.

[Carol H]

I have a 16' with a bike rack on the rear but no sway issues with either of the two tow vehicles I have pulled it with. I attribute that to a a number of factors:

1) I use the lightest good quality bike rack I could purchase - have a Kuat 2 bike rack - it only weighs 11lbs & rides very stable - very little movement of the rack. . Performs better than a couple of heavier more expensive racks I own & more stable.

2) I never carry heavy bikes such as mountain bikes on it. Only very light road bikes or crossovers containing a lot of carbon fiber. If I need to bring a heavier bike it rides in the trailer.

3) Move heavier items out of the rear hatches into the front hatches

4) Never travel with water in the fresh tank or the grey water tanks.

5) Keep my propane tank full.

6) As mine is the side bath model it has bunks at the front so there is really not a great deal of storage up front - so I tend to keep the tongue set slightly below level in order to get the weight up a bit more. Find I need at least 240lbs (if bikes on the rear I need 250lbs) on the tongue for it to be a solid tow at highway speeds - which is 10% of the axle weight which routinely comes in at about 2400lbs with the trailer loaded.

[Byron Kinnaman]

The OP didn't mention speed at which sway was occurring. All trailer will go into sway at some speed. The trick is make sure that sway speed is well above the speed you tow at. The closer the two come together the more likely uncontrollable sway will happen.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by floyd

I don't doubt your weight estimates, in fact my CRO-MO 820 weighs over 30 pounds with a loaded trunk on a rear rack, two bottle racks, etc. The trunk includes pump, tube, tools and a back pack. (27 pounds for the bike alone)
You got me curious so I went out and weighed two of my other bikes...

1988 Trek 400... double butt welded CRO-MO frame, fork and pedals, steel bar with clips, bottle racks and seat pack installed....24 pounds

1988 Trek 1400...glued aluminum frame,aluminum fork and bar with clips, seat pack and bottle rack....23 pounds.

I discarded the three position bars on both bikes and installed custom bars of my own design on each.
A bit of a surprise that the difference was only one pound.

Then there is the new Trek Emonda the lightest production bike in the world......
The Émonda is not just a super light dream bike, it is a full line of bicycles starting with the $1650 Émonda S4 that weighs 19.27lbs, to the $15750, 10.25lb Émonda SLR 10. An Émonda SLR frameset is $4200.

My bicycles are far more modest than those, Floyd. We bought aluminum-framed, single-speed cruiser bikes (La Jolla, about $100 from Walmart.com). The manufacturer lists them at 33 pounds, but I removed the fenders and store the seats inside for towing, so about 30 pounds.

Point is when carrying bikes on the back of very small trailers, pounds matter. There's a big difference between the lightest and heaviest bicycles.

[JT33]

Thanks everyone for the input I am looking at a couple of options one being storing bikes in the trailer for traveling which is a pain but maybe the best option. The other building a platform rake on the back and mounting the spare under the tongue which may do it. Thanks again for the ideas. John T

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by JT33

Thanks everyone for the input I am looking at a couple of options one being storing bikes in the trailer for traveling which is a pain but maybe the best option. ...

Somewhere (on this forum I think) I saw where someone had adopted a bike roof mount (the type where you remove the front wheel and attach the bike's front fork to a bracket) and used it inside the trailer. If I recall right, it was on a board that could be stored in the front porta-potty space and slide out as needed.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Somewhere (on this forum I think) I saw where someone had adopted a bike roof mount (the type where you remove the front wheel and attach the bike's front fork to a bracket) and used it inside the trailer. If I recall right, it was on a board that could be stored in the front porta-potty space and slide out as needed.

This one?

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...tml#post163274

[mary and bob]

Those fork mounts can be purchased from etrailer, Amazon, and other places. I mounted two on a piece of plywood that sets in my pickup bed. I have to pull off the front wheels because I have a cap on the truck, not high enough to stand the bikes upright with both wheels on.

[ruscal]

Bikes are the best invention ever invented. Leaving them home is not an option. If your tow vehicle is not marginal, and can handle a little extra tongue weight, Floyd's idea makes sense. Standing the bikes inside the trailer on fork mounts also has pluses, but blocks access to the fridge and everything else in the trailer. I usually have a large ice chest sitting on the floor just ahead of the axle, and another with dry goods (lighter) just behind the axle, so can not have bikes there. Roof rack on the tug works also. Rear bumper is the least desirable due to the weight being far away from the axle, and being in the rear which lightens the tongue. If your load has to be away from the axle, front loading is best. Too much tongue weight does not hurt handling, but can overload a tow vehicle causing sag and affecting headlight aiming. Overload springs could help that. (air bags etc.) Floyd's setup requires some custom fabrication, but probably handles most of the issues if not towing with a super light vehicle.
Russ

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by ruscal

Bikes are the best invention ever invented. Leaving them home is not an option. If your tow vehicle is not marginal, and can handle a little extra tongue weight, Floyd's idea makes sense. Standing the bikes inside the trailer on fork mounts also has pluses, but blocks access to the fridge and everything else in the trailer. I usually have a large ice chest sitting on the floor just ahead of the axle, and another with dry goods (lighter) just behind the axle, so can not have bikes there. Roof rack on the tug works also. Rear bumper is the least desirable due to the weight being far away from the axle, and being in the rear which lightens the tongue. If your load has to be away from the axle, front loading is best. Too much tongue weight does not hurt handling, but can overload a tow vehicle causing sag and affecting headlight aiming. Overload springs could help that. (air bags etc.) Floyd's setup requires some custom fabrication, but probably handles most of the issues if not towing with a super light vehicle.
Russ

VERY well stated! However I think we should clarify that when the tug is front wheel drive, overloading the rear end (tongue weight) can cause loss of drive and steering control. I had that happen once, and that was plenty. Russ mentioned air bags which is one possible solution.

I also thought that leaving my bike behind was an option, and have done just that in the last couple of years, but now I am reconsidering.

[JT33]

Leaving bikes is not an option, roof has a canoe on it so I'm going with the bikes inside mounted onto front fork clamps. Will leave enough room to get to the frig and stove so we should be able to make lunch and stretch out on the bunk. The other choice is the same mount on the front bunk, not so sure on the extra tongue weight. I have set up a scale under the tongue and will weigh out each option. Neither are ideal but worth a try, not a lot of expense . What a treat to have this forum, thanks

[David B.]

I agree that leaving the bike at home is not an option.
Dave & Paula

[ruscal]

Originally Posted by gordon2

VERY well stated! However I think we should clarify that when the tug is front wheel drive, overloading the rear end (tongue weight) can cause loss of drive and steering control. I had that happen once, and that was plenty. Russ mentioned air bags which is one possible solution.

I also thought that leaving my bike behind was an option, and have done just that in the last couple of years, but now I am reconsidering.

Gordon,
I hadn't considered front wheel drive. I can just picture a scamp holding the Siennas front wheels in the air. An amusing image, but terrifying to a driver.
Look ma no steering!
Russ

[redbarron55]

I tow with a 2013 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI front wheel drive and the Scamp doesn't lift the front wheels off the ground.
The engine does produce so much torque that it can spin the front wheels if you use too much throttle.
It will do it without the trailer as well, but with the added weight it's easier to do.
While the hitch weight does shift the weight off the front I doubt it makes much difference in this case.
You mileage may vary.


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