Going to live in 17 Escape / Tow Vehicle advise

[indysafe317]

Originally Posted by crdahlberg

We used to pull a 16' fold-down Chalet trailer. Now we have an Escape 17B. Our original tow vehicle was a 4WD V6-powered Toyota RAV4. Loved it for its compact size and very strong engine. In time, however, its 3500 lb towing capacity proved too little. Transmission and differential problems led to its eventual demise. I say "eventual" because I think it was the accumulated wear that took its toll. We replaced it with a 4Runner, rated at 5000 lbs towing. I'm sure the Highlander would work well, but nearly all SUVs these days are built on a unibody car chassis -- a Camry chassis, in the Highlander's case. The 4Runner is built on a truck-like, body-on-frame constructed chassis, rear-wheel drive, so it's more like a Tacoma. Almost all mid-size SUVs are front-wheel-drive (even 4 wheel drive mid-size pull primarily from the front axle), so they are PULLING the tow vehicle and PULLING the trailer, which is hard on the tow vehicle. On the other hand, a front wheel drive vehicle is PUSHING itself and PULLING only the trailer, which is easier on the tow vehicle. Imagine if you would rather pull a heavy appliance across the room by pulling it or by pushing it. Pushing is easier than pulling, hence a truck-like tow vehicle with the primary drive at its rear wheels, in my opinion, is preferable.

Makes a lot of sense, I am leaning toward the 4runner now. Have had a few people suggest the Transit but I don't know much about them, gonna research further on that one.

[indysafe317]

Originally Posted by mszabo

Al today is your lucky day. You need to talk too someone that’s been there done that.
Can’t think of one one that is more versed in what you want to do.

PM (private message) Jon Vermiiye
And checkout his RV Blogs and Journals and Fiberglass trailer Blogs. Along with his photos to die for.

Jon started with a 17’ Escape and now has a 21’
You have the budget so, don’t cut yourself short.
Jon is on the road all the time, and might take a few days to get back too you.
Mike

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm

Will do, thanks so much

[yardsale]

What is your height and weight. Headroom on our 17b ok for 5' 10" but not much more. Bathroom would be tough if you are much bigger than me at 5' 9" and 165 lbs.

[indysafe317]

Originally Posted by indysafe317

OK, here goes been researching and considering this for some time and getting close to decision time so wanted to seek advise. If this should be in a different area of the forum, let me know.

I'm about 2 years from retirement and plan on spending about 5-7, maybe more living out of the Escape. Retiring from 30 years as a Firefighter and it's just me. I also plan on care taking houses and animal rescues across the country from time to time. I'm sure I will be in housing some but also want to have my home with me for some remote areas that I would like to visit. Will have access to electric some and other times not.

I am aloting 35000 - 40000 USD for Trailer. I think the 17 Escape will be more than enough space for me, I'm a minimalist. Just a comfortable bed and computer access keeps me happy. I will probably get one loaded, every option offered, including a quiet generator and full solar array for off grid times.

My main question is Tow vehicle, I am leaning towards a New Highlander. I have budgeted 35000 - 40000 for the vehicle. I would love to use a minivan. I like them and I will probably leave the trailer at times and live in the vehicle for a few days at a time. My favorite is the Town and Country / Pacifica but I just don't think it's gonna be good enough for Tow Capacity which is why I'm leaning towards a Highlander

I am open to all opinions and comments on both the tow vehicle and ANY advise you can give. I will be living on these forums over the next year to learn what I can. I would like to make up my mind by Summer of next year on Trailer and Vehicle, order the trailer allowing for another year for build out and then I'm off.

I don't like cold weather so I will probably only be in the Northern States in Summer time and Southern States in the Winter.

Let me have it.

OK, time to update the posting, many of you have touched on things I've thought about and your nudging me in a slightly different path which is exactly what I wanted. I know there is no perfect answer but good advice is always welcome and put to use.

I have been in each size new floor model 17 , 19, 21. I was originally thinking 19, talked myself into the 17 which was my original post and after reading so many comments and blogs and back to the 19. I am still gonna visit a few outings and visit some more lived in models.

I started with a tow vehicle of a highlander and am now leaning towards a 4runner. I have also added a Sprinter to the list but have no experience with it as a tow vehicle. It would definitely meet my needs of an away from trailer temp home and am handy so I could build it out pretty nice I think.

[Deb & Chuck]

If you have a partner go with a 19 ft. or 21 ft. We just sold a 17B and are awaiting the pickup date for a 21 ft. Yes, we do most of our living outside but it doesn't rain sometimes and you both have to be inside.

[Tom 72]

Hello, My situation seems comparable to yours. I do like vans, and the tall ones are quite nice. They are a lot like pickups with enclosed, secure waterproof storage/living space. I have a diesel Sprinter that has 5,000 lbs tow capacity. Diesels offer about 1/3rd more mileage, and are good workhorses. I get 20-25 mpg not towing. I would read up on the newer generation of diesels, and see how owners like them. I love my 2.7 liter 5 speed. It will accelerate climbing a mountain, thanks to a turbo. It is quiet and starts well at zero, which is colder than I hope to be.
There are many good tall van choices. Pickups also work well. GM makes a pair of smaller diesel pickups. For trailers like most here tow, a larger diesel is fine, but not needed. The 3.0 liter range is fine. I don't mean to rule out gas engines. If I was buying today, I'd have to ponder it.
I have considered a 17' Escape, or maybe a Casita with The Sprinter. Quiting work in July.
The Highlander shares the Camry front wheel drive platform. Here's more: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_K_platform

[indysafe317]

Originally Posted by Tom 72

Hello, My situation seems comparable to yours. I do like vans, and the tall ones are quite nice. They are a lot like pickups with enclosed, secure waterproof storage/living space. I have a diesel Sprinter that has 5,000 lbs tow capacity. Diesels offer about 1/3rd more mileage, and are good workhorses. I get 20-25 mpg not towing. I would read up on the newer generation of diesels, and see how owners like them. I love my 2.7 liter 5 speed. It will accelerate climbing a mountain, thanks to a turbo. It is quiet and starts well at zero, which is colder than I hope to be.
There are many good tall van choices. Pickups also work well. GM makes a pair of smaller diesel pickups. For trailers like most here tow, a larger diesel is fine, but not needed. The 3.0 liter range is fine. I don't mean to rule out gas engines. If I was buying today, I'd have to ponder it.
I have considered a 17' Escape, or maybe a Casita with The Sprinter. Quiting work in July.
The Highlander shares the Camry front wheel drive platform. Here's more: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_K_platform

Thanks, I have added the Sprinter to my list, just spent about 2 hours on their site building a few options and It almost had me convinced to just build out the Sprinter into an RV but I think I would want a little more space for as long as I will be out. The diesel would probably last the rest of my life at least my traveling life. Thanks again for the suggestion.

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by Tom 72

I have a diesel Sprinter that has 5,000 lbs tow capacity. I would read up on the newer generation of Sprinter diesels and see how owners like them.

Here is a good place to start reading about the "New" Generation Mercedes Benz Diesel Powered Sprinter Vans:

This Fleet owner of 47+ New Generation 2008 up to current model Mercedes Benz Diesel Sprinters and many other commercial users ain't too happy with em!

Commercial fleets such as Fedex, UPS and others have moved away from diesel powered Sprinters to gas powered Ford Transit Vans, Ram Pro-Master Vans and other alternatives due to fuel cost, the great reliability of modern gasoline engines and the ongoing emissions problems associated with 2008+ diesel Sprinter's discussed in the link below that includes the high cost of repair along with lack of repair support from Mercedes Benz.

Mercedes Benz only offers the 1 diesel engine in the current Sprinter. There is no gasoline engine option. Yes you are a individual owner/user however that does not mean you might not have the same emissions related problems in the future if you purchase a Sprinter.

Just something else to consider when shopping for your perfect tow vehicle.



https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fatal...tom-robertson/

[Tom 72]

Thanks Mike, for sharing concerns about newer diesel engines. It is something to consider. Try to get data & not anecdotes. I suppose they fall outside Consumers Reports reviews. Mine had an 8 year drive train warranty. New ones have a 5yr 100,000 miles engine warranty. Emissions may be included. Outer body also 5 years/100,000 miles. 3 years on panels. Everything else, 3yr/36,000.
Check out the Sprinter "worker" model which is $4,000 less, with base of $33,995 and $2,500 for the high roof. I have a 2004 with only 42,000 miles bought new. I expect to increase the miles soon. I have the high roof and recommend it. People say it drives like a car, and I agree. The 144" wheelbase fits in normal parking. The extra 26" in the 170" model while welcome, reduces mileage, & makes parking a bit tougher. The inside of my van is a little over 10' behind the seats. So comparable to a Scamp 13. I bought seat swivels, effectively increasing space.
My van handles fine on roads, including gravel. It is not for off roading.
I seem to see more Dodges (Fiats) in conversions. They are front wheel drive, gas. Tradesmen seem to drive a lot of the Fords, maybe based on experience. Conversions now start around $60,000, less for Wayfarer. Hymers may start around $80. The Russos', around $90-100.
PS, Mike. I'm not suggesting Tom Robertson's fleet story isn't data. 47 vehicles is a good sample. I keep vehicles beyond warranty, so I doubt I could justify it. Old enough to remember what F-I-A-T stood for. So hello Ford. -Pleased I'm not facing replacement.
Get a sense of van life here from the Russos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V37wm1QhCOo

Wayfarer vans
http://www.subcompactculture.com/201...ster-city.html

[John in Santa Cruz]

I've heard a LOT of horror stories about the 'bluetech' mercedes diesel sprinters. the older ones were quite robust but not very powerful.

I test drove a nearly new sprinter class B camper, and found it really 'pitchy' on bumpy roads, such that I was getting queazy while driving it on a bumpy road. hated it, actually.

[John in Santa Cruz]

p.s. this is why I bought a 2002 Ford with the venerable 7.3L turbodiesel, instead of one of the newer trucks with the far more complex and trouble-prone 6.0, 6.4, or 6.7L diesels.

[vintageracer]

Here are some links concerning new 4x4 Sprinter builds that might interest you to show what can be done with a Sprinter or Transit van for that matter!

https://expeditionportal.com/forum/t...tvango.188342/

https://expeditionportal.com/forum/t.../#post-2483512


https://expeditionportal.com/forum/t...nterior.20079/

[indysafe317]

Originally Posted by Tom 72

Thanks Mike, for sharing concerns about newer diesel engines. It is something to consider. Try to get data & not anecdotes. I suppose they fall outside Consumers Reports reviews. Mine had an 8 year drive train warranty. New ones have a 5yr 100,000 miles engine warranty. Emissions may be included. Outer body also 5 years/100,000 miles. 3 years on panels. Everything else, 3yr/36,000.
Check out the Sprinter "worker" model which is $4,000 less, with base of $33,995 and $2,500 for the high roof. I have a 2004 with only 42,000 miles bought new. I expect to increase the miles soon. I have the high roof and recommend it. People say it drives like a car, and I agree. The 144" wheelbase fits in normal parking. The extra 26" in the 170" model while welcome, reduces mileage, & makes parking a bit tougher. The inside of my van is a little over 10' behind the seats. So comparable to a Scamp 13. I bought seat swivels, effectively increasing space.
My van handles fine on roads, including gravel. It is not for off roading.
I seem to see more Dodges (Fiats) in conversions. They are front wheel drive, gas. Tradesmen seem to drive a lot of the Fords, maybe based on experience. Conversions now start around $60,000, less for Wayfarer. Hymers may start around $80. The Russos', around $90-100.
Get a sense of van life here from the Russos:

Wayfarer vans
Wayfarer Vans: Ram ProMaster City Campervan Conversion in 25 Minutes | Subcompact Culture - The small car blog

Good video, I was looking at the extended wheel base but I think that would be overkill for my needs, I'm not convinced this is the way to go but I'm definitely keeping it on my list of options, I'm still a little over a year out so who knows what options will come available.

[ricklepage]

Originally Posted by indysafe317

Yep, I'm on both forums to get different perspectives, I think your right about the minivan. I like pickups but the SUV seems to be a happy medium that meets all my needs so I'm leaning in that direction. I'm not out on the pickup idea. Also considering a 4runner.

I pull our Escape 19 (moved up from a Casita 17) with a Toyota FJ, which has less interior storage than a Highlander, but about the same tow capacity. I have no issues pulling the 19, and the Casita was even easier.

In retrospect, I wish I had gone with a 4Runner, largely for the extra cargo space, but I do like the small nature of the FJ with the 19". It's highly maneuverable, and I like having something a bit smaller to tool around in when I'm unhitched.

[Kevin Dawson]

We just bought a secondhand 2010 Escape 15A, and in fact are up in Mammoth CA, camping in it for the first time. A big step up from our 13' Lit Bigfoot. While our 07' Honda CRV would pull the Bigfoot, I knew we needed something with a higher rating than the 1500# on the CRV.
I came across a 07' Lexus rx400h awd/towing package for $7800. It was owned by a MD who had just retired and was buying a Tesla. He'd never towed with it. Always garaged and only used for driving to work in So Calif.
I'd never known how uncomfortable the CRV was until buying the Lexus, but of course I'd never look at cars with a $52k window sticker. It tows the Escape like it's not there. It's a hybrid based on the Prius but with a V6. The window sticker said it's suppose to get 28-32. In the month we've had it, I'm seeing 22-25 around town, and 17 towing the Escape to Mammoth at 65mph.
I like how quiet the Lexus runs. At speeds under 25, it runs electric! Very stealthy through the campgrounds.
When I was researching, I was finding the Lexus RX hybrids seem to have a huge depreciation curve, so you can pick them up very reasonable.
What I don't like is the limited storage and high cargo deck, as compared to the CRV.
If I was reconsidering the tow vehicle, especially if I was going to live full time, I would look at something like the Transit. I'm thinking I'd like to have a couple electric bicycles. The ones I'm looking at are a couple K each! I would want to have a safe, secure to lock them up, out of sight. A Transit might be the solution. I think I've also read Ford was going to offer a diesel in the upcoming Transit.

In the Escape, I'm thinking of changing out the 3-way dometic fridge to a Truckfridge TF130. The Danfos compressor design is simpler, more efficient, allows more storage in same space, and more forgiving about being level. I also think it wouldn't have had to have access doors cut through the side of the trailer. Also, if ordering an Escape new, I'd also ask if you could use a Propex heater instead of a Atwood. The Propex is smaller, and the intake/exhaust is through the floor, rather than the side wall of the trailer. I have a VW Vanagon Westy, and all the guys are switching to Truckfridges and Propexs. And then they add solar systems to power it all. I'm not liking the Dometic 3way.

[hts1190]

VW Touareg diesels have a 7700 lb tow rating. We are on our second one and couldn't be more pleased. I highly recommend a VW diesel, if you can find one. I say that because the Diesels are no longer imported into the United States.

[Huck]

Ford Transit (Cargo Van). You will forget you're towing anything.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by hts1190

I highly recommend a VW diesel, if you can find one. I say that because the Diesels are no longer imported into the United States.

Are you not concerned about parts availability when they are no longer imported?

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Are you not concerned about parts availability when they are no longer imported?

and, weren't all the VW Diesels recalled as a settlement due to their cheating on pollution ?

[Uplander]

Based on your need for both tow capacity and space you might want to consider a truck. I’d avoid the transit van. Most of the new series of big, boxy vans are made in Turkey. Turkey is famous for producing that rolling disaster the “Hugo”.
Not reliable vehicles. Start your search with products from the reliability king:
Toyota. The Tacoma V6 has a tow capacity of 6,500 lbs (the last time I checked).
Add a cap and you have plenty of storage space and you could even add a air mattress and a sleeping bag. Get the 4 wheel drive model and you can go anywhere.
I have owned a Highlander (another reliable vehicle.) I currently own a fantastic
Toyota FJ Land Cruiser, 4.0 Ltd V6, 4X4 but that model is no longer available for sale in the United States....Suggest a 4 Runnner (same motor and 4X4 drive train as the FJCruiser). With normal maintenance these Toyota products will give reliable service for well over 300,000 miles plus !!!

Your selection of the Escape Travel Trailer is excellent (my first choice for my next RV).....Enjoy!!!....and Happy Camping.