First Trillium Window Remove, Reseal and Reinstall

[mensie]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Good point Raz, as those screws deteriorate they likely leave enough space for water to intrude. Also, per galvanic action: it occurs to me to wonder why they didn't just use aluminum rivets to attach the (aluminum) windows in the first place. The fiberglass is thick enough to grab well and the wood seems to me to serve the sole purpose of providing something to set those screws into-?

I'm actually glad they used screws instead of rivets. On my boler they used rivets and what a PIA to remove those , when I resealed the windows in my boler I used stainless screws with a rubber washer and fresh new butyl tape in between. It was a lot of work On my trillium I replaced all the wood, front , back and rear right window and new screws and it is so much quicker and easier.

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by Ed Harris

The seal you are calling Butyl does not look like Butyl to me at all but just the grey mastic caulk popular back in the day?

Actual Butyl is so much more pliable and sticky that it is insane!

I made sure to use actual Butyl Rubber when resealing mine both times.

Definitely not caulk as it was in tape form. Some was very pliable, other was dried out and "crispy".

As far as the corrosion, all of the screw corrosion occurred in the wood, the heads and initial threads close to the heads were OK, as it went into the wood, corrosion began. So I am thinking its more just ordinary rust, caused by wet wood. Some of the screws likely leaked, rock guard sides didn't even have butyl tape. Other may have leaked past the failed butyl tape.

[Ed Harris]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

Definitely not caulk as it was in tape form. Some was very pliable, other was dried out and "crispy".

As far as the corrosion, all of the screw corrosion occurred in the wood, the heads and initial threads close to the heads were OK, as it went into the wood, corrosion began. So I am thinking its more just ordinary rust, caused by wet wood. Some of the screws likely leaked, rock guard sides didn't even have butyl tape. Other may have leaked past the failed butyl tape.

Still looks just like Putty tape to me and distinctly different than a Butyl product?

But I could sure be wrong too.

I researched and shopped extensively before choosing actual Butyl Rubber to redo every window/skylight that I have done and there is an old school product which is more of a putty tape and the newer Butyl which is really an automotive and glass sealant mostly it turns out.

Anyway the Putty is just not the same as the Butyl and it is hard to imagine the butyl rotting or drying out to me.

[thrifty bill]

I wasn't there when it was installed 41 years ago, so maybe you are right. Who knows.

[David Tilston]

What is called butyl tape by most, (me included) is as Ed says mastic calk. True butyl is black.

[thrifty bill]

Just to clarify any confusion here, 90% of the material sealing the windows was still soft and pliable, but some of it wasn't. In particular, the stuff used on the horizontal top of the rock guard was relatively stiff, and I was able to snap it into pieces. It was also dirtier than the rest of the seal material I saw.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by David Tilston

What is called butyl tape by most, (me included) is as Ed says mastic calk. True butyl is black.

I wouldn't call butyl tape mastic caulk but it's true it isn't natural rubber either. It's something BETTER, at least for applications like sealing windows etc. Butyl tape was developed to overcome natural rubber's limitations especially its vulnerability to temp variations.

[Element89]

Hi folks, we're resealing the windows of our 1973 Trillium.

We replaced the wood framing already (it was horribly deteriorated, literally falling out when we pulled back ensolite... see pics of our project here) and that has helped a great deal, but I don't think it has ever been fully resealed in the last 45 years. We're still seeing some minor leaks (coming out the bottom of the ensolite with a bit of pooling on top of the bench areas...), but nothing as bad as when we first bought it! We replaced all the screws with stainless steel when we reframed the windows, but i am now considering pulling them out and adding in rubber washers to add an extra seal in when I do the butyl tape (should have done that from the get go, i know!). As we live on the we(s)t coast, definitely want to stop these leaks!

I've shopped around locally but haven't been able to find butyl tape - hardware stores here say the used to carry it but don't anymore. Did some searching on amazon, and am seeing some that looks more like the putty you've been describing, and what i think is actual butyl tape....

Anyone mind confirming this is what I should be using? If not, if you can provide an amazon (Canada) link, that would be awesome! Also - how much do you think you need to redo all 4 windows on a Trillium? This is 50 ft.... Do i need to use two layers? This tape is 1" wide, should i cut it to 1/2" and double up?

Much appreciated!

https://www.amazon.ca/Butyl-Tape-Bla...rds=butyl+tape

[Ed Harris]

I buy mine at Auto Body Supply Houses,it is what they use to install Windshields and Body Panels and is plentiful and inexpensive and in different shapes and thickness already.

Originally Posted by Element89

Hi folks, we're resealing the windows of our 1973 Trillium.

We replaced the wood framing already (it was horribly deteriorated, literally falling out when we pulled back ensolite... see pics of our project here) and that has helped a great deal, but I don't think it has ever been fully resealed in the last 45 years. We're still seeing some minor leaks (coming out the bottom of the ensolite with a bit of pooling on top of the bench areas...), but nothing as bad as when we first bought it! We replaced all the screws with stainless steel when we reframed the windows, but i am now considering pulling them out and adding in rubber washers to add an extra seal in when I do the butyl tape (should have done that from the get go, i know!). As we live on the we(s)t coast, definitely want to stop these leaks!

I've shopped around locally but haven't been able to find butyl tape - hardware stores here say the used to carry it but don't anymore. Did some searching on amazon, and am seeing some that looks more like the putty you've been describing, and what i think is actual butyl tape....

Anyone mind confirming this is what I should be using? If not, if you can provide an amazon (Canada) link, that would be awesome! Also - how much do you think you need to redo all 4 windows on a Trillium? This is 50 ft.... Do i need to use two layers? This tape is 1" wide, should i cut it to 1/2" and double up?

Much appreciated!

https://www.amazon.ca/Butyl-Tape-Bla...rds=butyl+tape

[thrifty bill]

"Anyone mind confirming this is what I should be using? If not, if you can provide an amazon (Canada) link, that would be awesome! Also - how much do you think you need to redo all 4 windows on a Trillium? This is 50 ft.... Do i need to use two layers? This tape is 1" wide, should i cut it to 1/2" and double up?"

I would NOT cut it in half. I doubled up the 1 inch stuff. Figure close to 25 feet per larger window if you double it up. I ended up buying 8 rolls, I only have about 1 1/2 rolls left.. The front window if it has a rock guard will take more of course, basically a roll just for that window and rock guard.

I keep using butyl tape on other repairs, like side marker light replacements, rebuilding rear tail lights, and most recently installing a new cord hatch with a surface mount power inlet.

All my butyl tape came from Amazon.

If you still have leaks, what about the belly band and all the rest of the hatches, lights, etc.? I'm fortunate to have covered storage while I work on this project.

The window framing on yours looks much worse than mine, and given paint fade, looks like it has spent a lot of time stored outdoors (guess on my part). IF that is the case, I would be prioritizing the belly band along with any other trailer penetrations.

[mensie]

Originally Posted by Element89

Hi folks, we're resealing the windows of our 1973 Trillium.

We replaced the wood framing already (it was horribly deteriorated, literally falling out when we pulled back ensolite... see pics of our project here) and that has helped a great deal, but I don't think it has ever been fully resealed in the last 45 years. We're still seeing some minor leaks (coming out the bottom of the ensolite with a bit of pooling on top of the bench areas...), but nothing as bad as when we first bought it! We replaced all the screws with stainless steel when we reframed the windows, but i am now considering pulling them out and adding in rubber washers to add an extra seal in when I do the butyl tape (should have done that from the get go, i know!). As we live on the we(s)t coast, definitely want to stop these leaks!

I've shopped around locally but haven't been able to find butyl tape - hardware stores here say the used to carry it but don't anymore. Did some searching on amazon, and am seeing some that looks more like the putty you've been describing, and what i think is actual butyl tape....

Anyone mind confirming this is what I should be using? If not, if you can provide an amazon (Canada) link, that would be awesome! Also - how much do you think you need to redo all 4 windows on a Trillium? This is 50 ft.... Do i need to use two layers? This tape is 1" wide, should i cut it to 1/2" and double up?

Much appreciated!

https://www.amazon.ca/Butyl-Tape-Bla...rds=butyl+tape

Any RV store that sells rvs and parts sell butyl tape just go with 1" wide whatever squeezes out you can cut if off. The tape is actually very cheap.

[Ed Harris]

Originally Posted by mensie

Any RV store that sells rvs and parts sell butyl tape just go with 1" wide whatever squeezes out you can cut if off. The tape is actually very cheap.

My entire point in this thread is that there are 2 different kinds of tape.

All RV stores do sell the traditional Putty or Mastic Tape but far fewer sell actual Butyl Rubber Tape which is much more effective and longer lasting.

[ststefan]

From what I have read, the tape with the crinkled paper is the rubber tape and doesn't last as long. The tape with the smooth waxy paper is the butyl tape.

[thrifty bill]

Time for the kitchen window. Window frame was bent up, had rivets on the sides and screws on the top and bottom. So it was time.

The wood had some issues, not too bad. But with no ensolite to worry about, I replaced the wood (top and bottom). The sides did not have wood. And there was just a narrow cavity to put the vertical side wood pieces, as the kitchen cabinet has a concave vertical section on either side of the window.

I cut side pieces with a 45 degree angle on one side (to fit snug against the concave vertical fiberglass). Pieces had to be narrower than the top and bottom. I used 3/4 inch OSB for the wood, as that is what I had in my stack.


I thought I would use 3/4 inch screws on the sides, but with two layers of butyl, I used up all of my remaining 1 inch stainless screws (time to order more).

1977 Trillium Kitchen Window by wrk101, on Flickr

Old wood starting to delam:

1977 Trillium Kitchen Window by wrk101, on Flickr

Side piece with the bevel:

1977 Trillium Kitchen Window by wrk101, on Flickr

Flat side of the side piece (faces out):

1977 Trillium Kitchen Window by wrk101, on Flickr


Window with the "ooze out". I'll be trimming it back.

1977 Trillium Kitchen Window by wrk101, on Flickr

[John in Michigan]

thrifty bill, thanks for the pics!!

(To the two earlier posts (post #32 and #33), I agree with both posts. E.g., Camping World stocks butyl tape and it has waxy smooth backing paper. On the other hand, couple of years ago I ordered butyl tape (looked like correct smooth waxy backing paper in the photo) from Amazon, but when I received it was crinkly paper / putty tape, and I returned it. Butyl tape is easy to verify: At room temperature, it can be stretched 2 or 3 feet without breaking, similar to freshly chewed chewing gum.)