2016 17' Bigfoot Travel Trailer Fishtailing With Tundra Tow Vehicle - Fiberglass RV
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Old 08-30-2017, 08:55 PM   #1
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Name: Ryan
Trailer: Bigfoot
California
Posts: 17
2016 17' Bigfoot Travel Trailer Fishtailing With Tundra Tow Vehicle

Hi All,

After 7 months of research I finally purchased a lightly used 2016 Bigfoot (25B175F last week, but need advice on how to properly tow it. I have towed a 3000 lb boat previously for many years with the same truck, but know little to nothing about properly towing a trailer. My dad (also experienced with towing boats, but never travel trailers) is currently driving the trailer out to my location, and has reported that it starts to fishtail if he exceeds 60 mph- he has been keeping the speed down, but this seems like an indication of a problem to me. I never had problems towing my 21' boat even at 80 mph with the same vehicle.

Current tow vehicle is a 2000 Toyota Tundra 2wd, 4.7L V8, with airbags. I don't currently have any sway bars or additional equipment other than the safety chains, a breakaway cable, and a prodigy p2 brake controller. I suspect the current trailer weight is about 4000 lbs.

Looking for advice on just about everything; how much weight should be on the tongue, how much pressure should I put in the airbags, should the hitch drop down, rise up, or be level? What about stabilization bars, etc- do I need them, and if so what are the best ones to purchase? I'm also wondering if the fishtailing is just a bi-product of a relatively heavy single axle trailer, which I am hoping is not the case.

I'm excited to enter the world of fiberglass camping, but am hoping for some good advice in order to do it safely and efficiently.

Thanks,

Ryan
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Old 08-30-2017, 09:09 PM   #2
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Name: Dan
Trailer: Bigfoot 30th Anv. 25B25FB
Washington
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Tongue weight generally 10-15%. Too much rear weight can cause a problem. E-qualizer brand weight distribution hitch is a good one if you need one.
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:11 PM   #3
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At 60 mph, you might be at the top end of the tire speed limit but you shouldn't have the sway. Possibly try shifting weight forward in the trailer. Also check that the trailer tongue is level or slightly down. Let us know how it goes!
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:38 AM   #4
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Name: Dave
Trailer: Casita SD17 2006 "Missing Link"
California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdf0011 View Post
Hi All,

After 7 months of research I finally purchased a lightly used 2016 Bigfoot (25B175F last week, but need advice on how to properly tow it. I have towed a 3000 lb boat previously for many years with the same truck, but know little to nothing about properly towing a trailer. My dad (also experienced with towing boats, but never travel trailers) is currently driving the trailer out to my location, and has reported that it starts to fishtail if he exceeds 60 mph- he has been keeping the speed down, but this seems like an indication of a problem to me. I never had problems towing my 21' boat even at 80 mph with the same vehicle.

Current tow vehicle is a 2000 Toyota Tundra 2wd, 4.7L V8, with airbags. I don't currently have any sway bars or additional equipment other than the safety chains, a breakaway cable, and a prodigy p2 brake controller. I suspect the current trailer weight is about 4000 lbs.

Looking for advice on just about everything; how much weight should be on the tongue, how much pressure should I put in the airbags, should the hitch drop down, rise up, or be level? What about stabilization bars, etc- do I need them, and if so what are the best ones to purchase? I'm also wondering if the fishtailing is just a bi-product of a relatively heavy single axle trailer, which I am hoping is not the case.

I'm excited to enter the world of fiberglass camping, but am hoping for some good advice in order to do it safely and efficiently.

Thanks,

Ryan
Welcome to FGRV Ryan. First, TTs tow differently than boats, the tongue weight doesn't make much difference and really the only thing that's the same between boats and TTs is clearing the curb on turns and backing up. TTs need 10-15% of the weight on the ball. The trailer needs to be sitting level or just a tad low at the ball for a good tow. Speed can bring on the sway also if you're kind of iffy with the trailer loading and trailer angle. The number of axles makes no difference to fishtailing. Might want to ask your Dad what the angle is with his setup. The P2 is a good one. You may not need a weight distribution hitch (WDH) or air bags depending on the specs of your truck. Check to see what your manual says about the ratings your truck has. A Toyo dealer can also use your VIN # to give you the build specs. Your Dad should be fine when he hit CA as the speed limit for trailers is 55. Good luck to you and require pics for proof from new members .
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Old 08-31-2017, 06:05 AM   #5
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Hey Ryan

I tow with an '01 Tundra Longbed also with the 4.7l motor and I have also pulled a whole variety of trailers with both this and an '01 V6 Tundy and both do just fine overall for me.

I have to think your rig may be too much for the truck overall or at least with no Sway Control and Weight EQ to help out a little.
The Bags are really just screwing with the truck suspension if I understand them correctly and I wonder if any bad might result there,I really have no idea.

I do know that I have had issues with various trailers that I wouldn't have thought I would,sometimes pretty light trailers not oriented properly and even seemingly minute differences in attitude seem to make all the difference in the world in drive-ability

As has been said already you want the nose level or down slightly and the slightest variation may make the difference for you.

I also have argued and discussed this over and over with others and all I can tell you is this:I am fine towing with the hitch alone but I am more fine using the WDH and Sway Control,sometimes much more fine!

Fiberglass is pretty heavy and your boat probably has a much smaller profile than the Bigfoot and there might just be too much resistance for this combo too?

I recently picked up an '07 Tundra with the 5.7l Beast Motor and I will tell you it is a whole new level of power and control in every way.
Our Tundra are not quite full size Pickups but the newer Gen. certainly is!
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Old 08-31-2017, 06:32 AM   #6
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Sway at 60 mph is definitely not normal. Any trailer will tend to become unstable (i.e., have a tendency to sway) at some speed, but with a properly designed, hitched, and loaded trailer, that speed should be well above normal towing speeds.

You might discuss with your father whether there were any crosswinds or other environmental factors at the time, as well as what he meant by "fishtailing." Are we talking intermittent, small amplitude wiggles in response to a gust of wind or a passing semi, or are we talking continuous sway that can be felt in the tow vehicle and with no apparent outside cause? Neither is desirable, but the latter is cause for serious investigation.

Two things to check for starters are (1) attitude- of the trailer, not the driver ...should be riding level or slightly nose down, and (2) tongue weight- as said, should be 10-15% of total trailer weight.

If that doesn't help, you may have to look for less likely causes, such as damaged or defective tires, wheels, or axle.

Once you've found and corrected the cause, I would definitely look into a weight distributing hitch (better than air bags) and/or a sway control device. Just don't skip straight to those things, because you don't want to mask a serious problem.

Welcome, and congratulations on the new trailer! I really like the 17.5FB layout and haven't seen or heard of any on this forum yet. I'd love to see some pictures.
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Old 08-31-2017, 08:07 AM   #7
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I towed a BF 17 with a Tundra thousands and thousands of miles and it never fishtailed, even with a full fresh water tank which was in the right rear corner on mine.

As others have said, trailer nose slightly down, hitch ball slightly down. You might need to deflate the air bags, I doubt if they are needed.

Keep the bulk of the load in the trailer toward the front. You shouldn't need a equalizing hitch or anti-sway device to cure a problem. Go ahead and add anti-sway if you want, but not until you have solved the issue.

Mine towed as steady as a rock on every kind of road imaginable at speeds as high as 70.
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Old 08-31-2017, 08:49 AM   #8
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We had scary sway with our Bigfoot Silver Cloud when we first got it. We bought a ProPride hitch and that ended it. Another hitch that is similar is the Hensley hitch. Both were developed by the same designer.

Hubby, who drives due to my disability, had to white-knuckle muscle the Expedition that we tow with to keep the Silver Cloud from swaying, before we got the ProPride. After adding this hitch, I pointed out to him once, while he was driving with one hand on the steering wheel, that he was being passed by a bus (worse than semis!). We barely moved.

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Old 08-31-2017, 08:57 AM   #9
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Boy, you're right about busses, Cindy! And they always seem to be in more of a hurry than semis.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:15 AM   #10
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Name: Kevin
Trailer: In the market
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2016 17' Bigfoot Travel Trailer Fishtailing With Tundra Tow Vehicle

2006 tundra 2wd 8cyl with towing package. Towing a 5000 pound lance TT that has two axles. Using an antisway and load leveling hitch system. Tracks like it's locked in.

Never sways. Yes antisway bar would make a loud noise if it did sway. Maximum speed is 60mph according to Lance company. If that is the max, then I try to keep it real at 55 to 60 mph.

What is your MPG? Mine is only 8.5 to 9.5 best case. That engine just pulls great but eats gasoline. Wonder if the Tundra 5.7 uses less gasolene.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:29 AM   #11
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Name: Henry
Trailer: BigFoot
Tennessee
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I have a 2011 Tundra 4x4 Dbl cab 5.7L w/towing package, Casita 17', fiberglass camper shell, truck box is loaded with goodies, Andersen WDH, tongue weight at about 17% when trailer is loaded, trailer is level or slightly tongue down. Pulls very well, no sway ever, sometimes forget it is even there. I get 11.5 mpg over about 10K miles last camping season. I drive 60 mph.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:48 AM   #12
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Trailer: Bigfoot 25B21RB, 2004
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The first thing to check is the weight distribution.
as the tanks are at the rear and may contain a lot of liquid, this would be my first check, while making sure that there are 10 to 15% of the total weight located on the hitch.

See the following video :

https://www.facebook.com/SwiftCarava...9840290418351/

After weighing our trailer, in a government balance in my case, I find the 10 to 15% weight we need, with a home balance, as explained in the following E-Trailer :

https://www.etrailer.com/faq-how-to-...ue-weight.aspx

In this way the transport is very pleasant.

In my case I had to add stabilizer bars with anti-swing.
As the weight is well balanced, there is no wobbling on the road.
The anti-swing is necessary in the event of an emergency stop, to prevent the trailer from wanting to pass in front of us and when large transport trucks exceed us at high speed. The air movement they create can cause our trailer to tilt.

Good road
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:50 AM   #13
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Name: Kevin
Trailer: In the market
South Carolina
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2016 17' Bigfoot Travel Trailer Fishtailing With Tundra Tow Vehicle

2011 tundra is $23000. 2006 is $15000. Giving $7000 difference.

Calculating savings of $2000 a year in MPG between 11 and 8 with 20000 miles a year. So takes three and a half years to payback on switching to a 2011 truck. Not bad payback actually. Might need to switch to a 5.7 liter.

Am mentioning this because changing to a 2011 truck with 5.7 liter engine for less than $7000 out of pocket is worth the expense. For towing stability and MPG savings.
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Old 08-31-2017, 01:01 PM   #14
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Name: Perry
Trailer: 2016 Bigfoot 25RQ
Lanesboro, Minnesota, between Whalan and Fountain
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After eleven years of Scamp/Casita camping we purchased a Cougar 21RB last fall, with an Anderson weight distribution hitch. Traveled over 3,000 miles last June with the Cougar. We didn't have any sway problems, but the Courgar was so tall (over 12') and short (25' ball to bumper) the top tipped in every time we were passed by a semi or bus. The Cougar had to go!

On the way back to Lanesboro, MN there was a 2003 Bigfoot 25RQ for sale in Worthington, MN. You rarely find these and I've been too late on two of them. We stopped in and found an immaculate, well-cared for camper and it was ours.

I've driven about 950 miles without a weight distribution hitch or anti-sway, and it trails perfectly! However, I know better. Fifteen minutes ago UPS delivered a Blue Ox weight distribution hitch. When I'm done typing I'll load the hitch in the F-150, head to the seasonal campground where the BF sits, hook up the camper to the F-150 and head to Rochester to purchase a new ball.

As soon as I get the ball I'll find a parking lot and setup the hitch. Then I drive 250 miles to my father-in-laws, where he are having an estate sale, to camp for a couple of days. Then we'll camp for another week in different locations, including the fall egg rally in Bemidji State Park.

The first thing the OP needs to do after his father delivers the camper is find out the hitch weight and then total trailer weight. Assuming (ass-u-me) there is nothing wrong with the axle/frame he needs to move weight from the back to the front.

Enjoy,

Perry
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Old 08-31-2017, 02:30 PM   #15
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Name: Francois
Trailer: Bigfoot
British Columbia
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F....?

if this is a 2016 FB model....(you typed: "25B175F")...that may be the problem...the whole cavernous storage space under the bed is EMPTY....and probably that big tonge storage box as well

I'm betting your father doesn't have enough tonge weight at the moment...and/or the ball on the TV is too high....

I recall somebody else complaining about this model to BF....and the factory "fix" was to put ballast in !!! that trailer weighs 3500 dry!!! IIRC....loaded will be well over 4000....don't know why you'd add "ballast" but the customer was complaining after picking up and driving the trailer empty...they "obliged"...

stuff it full of your gear/food/water...make sure the reach/trailer is level...and take it for a spin.....personally I like WDHs even if you need them or not because they eliminate the "hobby horse" effect when going over bumps....makes the whole rig feel stiff...as in ONE unit

I too towed boats for 20 odd years before a trailer....one big difference is when you look in your mirrors you won't see a thing backing up. With a boat, because of the shape, you can see when the trailer starts to make a turn...with a trailer, by the time you notice it's too late. That was annoying in the extreme...until I put some "targets" on the trailer (lined them up in the mirror side of truck to target on trailer... and one in center, lining up with piece of tape inside back window)...now I see immediately how the trailer is lined up and which direction it is headed...early enough to correct...I use the center one to hook up, side targets for backing up

that BF is a full 8 feet wide and SQUARE...a boat is also 8 feet but the shape lets you see a whole way further back behind you than the BF will....I tried mirror extenders...they don't work...I know have a wireless backup camera it the back of the BF (stress level WAY down)

good luck
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:34 PM   #16
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Bigfoot 25B175G towing experience

We have a 2008 25B175G without the front storage boxes. We tow it with a 2012 F150XLT with the base 3.7L V6. Truck upgrades are minimal - Bilstein B6 shocks and Timbren rear axle bump stops.

Our truck has a towing capacity of 5,400 lbs or thereabouts and with a weight distributing hitch (which has built in anti sway capability) it's as solid as a rock. We do not notice semi trailers passing the opposite way on high speed 2 lane roads.

I have tried towing without the WDH to try and it was unnerving. The truck sat back on its rear end and got distinctly "squirrely" above about 40 mph. I instantly decided that with a trailer that weighs between 3500 and 3800 lbs loaded that a WDH is mandatory if towing with a half ton.
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Old 09-01-2017, 07:38 AM   #17
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Name: Ryan
Trailer: Bigfoot
California
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Thanks/Update

Hi All,

Thanks for all the replies. I'm blown away by the amount of help and level of detail provided.

My dad arrived safely at my house yesterday evening. Based on suggestions from this forum, i'm going to figure out the tongue weight today, adjust the trailer attitude, then probably look at an Equalizer hitch. I'll post a picture(s) in the next few days so everyone can see the setup.

Here's a few follow-ups:
-The model is a 25B175FB. I don't have the trailer tongue storage box, but I also didn't have hardly any weight in the large front storage either, so I suspect the tongue weight is much less than the 10-15% recommended.

-The trailer/tow vehicle attitude as setup for the drive was trailer tongue "slightly-up", so I suspect this was another problem.

-Thanks for the CA 55 MPH trailer towing speed limit. I didn't realize that (I'm new to CA in the last 7 months).

-I did some quick research on weight distribution/equalizer hitches and it seems there is a massive difference in price between a few hitches. For instance, I looked at Anderson and Equalizer hitches and they seemed to run under $500, while the Pro Pride Hitch at one site was advertised at $2000! Any thoughts on whether the Pro Pride is that much better or worth it?

-How would one verify that my axle/wheels aren't damaged? I highly-highly doubt this is the case since I had the trailer inspected independently, and looked at it myself (it is nearly brand new), but before I install an equalizer hitch I do want to be certain I am not masking the root problem.

-Great suggestion on the "targets" for backing up the trailer. Also on the wireless backup camera. On that note, any suggestions for a reasonably priced backup camera setup?

Ryan
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Old 09-01-2017, 07:41 AM   #18
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Name: Kevin
Trailer: In the market
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To get the wheels inspected. Just get the tires inspected with an estimate for replacement. Or imply you have a slow leak on the bead and you want the tire reseated on the rim. If the wheel is bad that will be picked up pretty quick. Or just have the wheels balanced.
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Old 09-01-2017, 12:27 PM   #19
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Name: Francois
Trailer: Bigfoot
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no surprise....

looking at all this a little further it should be no surprise that an empty 17.5 would have less than ideal tonge weight....

in 2005 the 17.5 was a totally redesign...with different molds, heavier, 4500 axle, etc....it also looks to me that the new version ended up with a longer overhang (axle a little more forward)....so it would be more susceptible to not having enough tonge weight under certain conditions, like a completely empty trailer .....look at the first pic and you be the judge

(the 17.5 trailer I used for comparison is not a FB model, the FB does not have a window to the right of the door....but serves as a good comparison)

the second picture is of a FB model like yours.....BTW nice score finding a FB....IMO trailers with rear dinette are very desirable....more often than not the scenery is at the back....I find anyway...

WDH....I'm sure you could spend a fortune...there's lots of heavy and super heavy trailers out there.....I'd buy the cheapest one I could get that looks good quality/finish wise....heck a used one might work just fine too.

As for sway bars....I'm in the camp that says cure the sway, don't mask it.

As you've towed a lot of boats, you know you can see all of your trailer tires in your mirrors and judge where the trailer is headed going backwards by looking at that...with the BF all you will see is the very bottom of your tires....that's why I put the tartgets on.....for long backups they work very well to know where the trailer is heading...early

Going down the highway you will only see if there's somebody directly behind you if you are on a curve....and in a straight line you won't see very far back for making lane changes (stress). Lots of times I wanted to slow down somewhere to check a road...but would not dare to because I worried there might be somebody right behind me.... those are the problems the back-up camera solved for me....I got mine online from an electronics worldwide place.....I paid 50-60 bucks, shipped from Singapore in two weeks

Don't fret, you'll figure it all....you got a very nice trailer there and sort of rare even....have fun
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Old 09-01-2017, 12:34 PM   #20
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Name: Francois
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ok...here's the intended pics...

must of forgot to "upload"
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