Electric problems_2003 Trillium_Outback

[icerunner]

Hello all,

I bought 2003 Trillium outback last year and enjoyed camping and hiking with outback.
I, my wife and my son went camping at Lake Louise campground to celebrate my birthday. We were about to go hiking in the morning but there was plastic melting smell in trailer and then power was out.
I used AC 110v to use electric heater, 1500W at that time.

I came back to Home and went to two RV services to fix it. RV services were already fully booked.
So I took power converter, ELX-25 apart by myself and found electric wire which is connected to aluminum block beside 15/20A circuit breaker was burned.


Please click following link which shows you pictures.
[IMG] http://blog.naver.com/aleksandr/220143677043 [/IMG]



The burned wire accidentally was removed when I pulled out the burned wire a little bit to cut it out. The wire length( wire B ) is around 10cm. So I had to open side cover of power converter to see what it happened inside. There was one disconnected wire( wire A ) inside so I connected the disconnected wires( wire A ) inside box and completely removed wire( wire B ).


It was not working when I connected 110V to trailer after rewiring.

Here are some questions.
1. Did I connect two disconnect wires( A and B ) correctly?
2. I rewired but no power is on. I don't know what went wrong.
Circuit breaker? Power converter?
3. If I replace circuit breaker and/or power converter, power is on?
4. Why hot line is connected to aluminum block if I connected correctly between wire A and wire B? (I can't understand why hot line is wired like diagram. )
5. Any comments for solving my problem? any references?


Many thanks in advance. Have a good day.

[Byron Kinnaman]

I'm going to suggest that you don't try to fix this yourself. Take it back to shop that has people that know how fix these things. You've already smelled burning plastic, mess with it too much and much more could end up burning.
Electrical fires are one of the causes of fires in trucks and autos. Don't want that to happen to your trailer.

[Daniel A.]

Clearly it was not wired properly or you were plugged into a much higher amp service than rated for.

[steve dunham]

You have a MLO panel . The terminal (Main Lug) burned off due to the set screw being loose and a heavy load . The lug is "JUNK" and needs to be replaced because it has been heated and the outer plating destroyed. You also need to cut back the feed wire until you see no signs of insulation damage and the copper is shiny. Lastly , the loose connection may have created an arcing fault and caused damage to your converter.. Electronic components do not like arcing or spikes in the sine wave

[mszabo]

A wire equals AC in
B wire is AC power to buss bar feeding breakers.
Not sure why you have a black wire (burnt) to grounding lug?
Should be a green wire (or white) to grounding buss.
Shouldn't have two wires on breaker.
One feeds 20 amp outlet and other 15 amp breaker to convertor.
Simply remember black = hot
White= neutral/ common/ ground
Green= earth ground
Gold screw on outlets = hot (black wire)
Silver screw on outlets = common (white wire)
Green screw= earth ground
Great drawings and pictures, couldn't tell what wire was going to breaker buss?
Should be B
Also check the polarity of the outlet you plugged into. If reversed it would put 110 to your ground. And it would look like what you have.
Let us know what you find.

[Bob Miller]

Gotta agree with Byron, it sound like this needs the attention of an electrician. Just based on your descriptions it sounds like this might be beyond your skill set and the results can be very disastrous if problems that exist aren't corrected.

FWIW: I do a lot of RC wiring and rewiring, as other damage may have been done to the electronics, and I would toss the existing converter and replace it with a new Progressive Dynamics PD-4045.

BTW: If your trailer is properly wired and circuit breaker protected, unless you somehow connect to a 240 outlet, you can't plug into an outlet with "To much power".

[Bob Miller]

Please, let's not perpetuate the myth that plugging into a higher amp service can damage anything. Higher voltage, yes, higher amperage capacity, no.

IF the trailer is Properly Wired, you can plug into the 120 Volt output of Grand Coulee Dam without fear. A trailer is simply a power load and it can't draw anymore from a 1000 amp outlet (if such a thing existed) than from any smaller outlet rated at or above it's load.

Your house is connected to 100 or 200 amp service, and we don't worry about that.....

Again, the operative term is Properly Wired.

Originally Posted by Daniel A.

Clearly it was not wired properly or you were plugged into a much higher amp service than rated for.

[Carol H]

I see you are in Alberta, if you are in the Calgary area have you considered taking it into Team Tillium -Outback to have them take a look at it?

Electrical is not something I would not mess with.......

[icerunner]

Thank you for all your comments.

[icerunner]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

I'm going to suggest that you don't try to fix this yourself. Take it back to shop that has people that know how fix these things. You've already smelled burning plastic, mess with it too much and much more could end up burning.
Electrical fires are one of the causes of fires in trucks and autos. Don't want that to happen to your trailer.

I need supports or fix by Electrician.

[icerunner]

Originally Posted by Carol H

I see you are in Alberta, if you are in the Calgary area have you considered taking it into Team Tillium -Outback to have them take a look at it?

Electrical is not something I would not mess with.......

Trillium Trailers has temporarily suspended business due to a move.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by icerunner

Trillium Trailers has temporarily suspended business due to a move.

I understand they can still be contacted by phone - perhaps they could advise you as to who you could use for electrical.

[CampyTime]

Just reading this thread and think I learned something here. First, I'm sorry this happened to you but if it were me at this point is have all checked out by an rv shop or qualified electrician, unless you are highly skilled and adept at this yourself. Electrical fires are awful as I've seen mobile homes go up with electrical problems and it isn't pretty.

Am I correct to learn that if a campsite has nothing left but 50 amp sites and my trailer is set up for 30 Amps at the distribution panel it doesn't matter? I can camp there no worries? Just wanna make sure I understand - or NOT.


Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV

[mszabo]

Yep, just need a 50/30 amp adaptor.
Voltec 16 00583 50amp Male to 30Amp Female RV Angle Adapter Fast Shipping | eBay

[CampyTime]

Cool. I did not know that. Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV

[icerunner]

Originally Posted by Daniel A.

Clearly it was not wired properly or you were plugged into a much higher amp service than rated for.

Originally Posted by mszabo

A wire equals AC in
B wire is AC power to buss bar feeding breakers.
Not sure why you have a black wire (burnt) to grounding lug?
Should be a green wire (or white) to grounding buss.
Shouldn't have two wires on breaker.
One feeds 20 amp outlet and other 15 amp breaker to convertor.
Simply remember black = hot
White= neutral/ common/ ground
Green= earth ground
Gold screw on outlets = hot (black wire)
Silver screw on outlets = common (white wire)
Green screw= earth ground
Great drawings and pictures, couldn't tell what wire was going to breaker buss?
Should be B
Also check the polarity of the outlet you plugged into. If reversed it would put 110 to your ground. And it would look like what you have.
Let us know what you find.

Thank you.

[icerunner]

Originally Posted by mszabo

A wire equals AC in
B wire is AC power to buss bar feeding breakers.
Not sure why you have a black wire (burnt) to grounding lug?
Should be a green wire (or white) to grounding buss.
Shouldn't have two wires on breaker.
One feeds 20 amp outlet and other 15 amp breaker to convertor.
Simply remember black = hot
White= neutral/ common/ ground
Green= earth ground
Gold screw on outlets = hot (black wire)
Silver screw on outlets = common (white wire)
Green screw= earth ground
Great drawings and pictures, couldn't tell what wire was going to breaker buss?
Should be B
Also check the polarity of the outlet you plugged into. If reversed it would put 110 to your ground. And it would look like what you have.
Let us know what you find.

Thank you for your comment.
Here is another picture.

Thank you for your comment.
Here is another picture.

[icerunner]

Here is more pictures.
[IMG] http://blog.naver.com/aleksandr/220144600963 [/IMG]

FYI, There was no problems when I used the electric heater for 18months.
And I hadn't changed any wiring before wire was burnt.

Q1. What happens if circuit breaker is not placed on busbar?
Q2. How do you use electric when it rains? Do you use AC 120V or 12V battery?
It was drizzling.

[Daniel A.]

I'm going to say you had a major short either something has crossed over the connection made contact before the breaker.
Was there anything stored in there that could have fallen against the wires.

Car battery cables will burn the same way if shorted.
Have you checked the battery cables ?

I've seen battery cables go molten white from shorts.
Follow the hot lead from the battery back to the box looking for any damage to the cable insulation.

[Bob Miller]

In relooking at your pics, it looks like your ac input is incorrectly wired. The first thing the power cable should see is the main breaker. It looks like the power cable is connected to the bussbar and has no protection.

Standard practice in the states is to back-feed the 20 amp main breaker to protect the buss and then use branch breakers for loads.

BTW: If you used a 1500+ watt electric heater, plus any other ac loads, like a coffee pot or a microwave, for 18 months, that may have caused some overheating in that unprotected cable. Right now it looks like you can pull 35 amps+ without blowing any breakers, more than the cable and connection are rated for, it should be only 20 amps.

As far as rain, should be no problem for 120 volt use.