towing 13' Scamp with 4-Cyl Rav4?

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by j-rod

hi folks,

thanks for the great replies, I've spoken with my local Toyota dealer. The service manager said that I would be okay, although I shouldn't load the trailer up to much with stuff, no full water tanks, and so forth.

Just curious what did they actually tell you the towing capacity of your RAV4 was?

Just so you are aware despite what some might claim even without water in the tanks you can expect a 13' Scamp to come in weighing at least 1700lbs, many more of them weigh in the 1900lb range .... It is a good bet that few of the trailers in the Real World thread had water in the tanks as most where weighed at a full service campground and it would be silly to tow a trailer full of water to such a location and pay the price in poor fuel economy.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by floyd

SORRY, I edited the comment.... To read 58 MPH! which is what I meant to say!

Darn I was kind of impressed with it being the other way Floyd! Was thinking I should have taken a better look at Fords!

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by j-rod

hi folks,

thanks for the great replies, I've spoken with my local Toyota dealer. The service manager said that I would be okay, although I shouldn't load the trailer up to much with stuff.
thanks,
jared

It's not just the trailer though. You don't want to load up the RAV either, and with a family of four, that will be a challenge.
Personally, I like to enjoy the drive, not white-knuckle it all the way with my kids in the back.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by j-rod

hi folks,

"I've spoken with my local Toyota dealer. The service manager said that I would be okay, although I shouldn't load the trailer up to much with stuff, no full water tanks, and so forth. And don't go too far, monitor the engine temp. He also indicated that I didn't need a transmission cooler because the rav4's transmission cooler is heavy duty from the factory."

I'd still ask for the actual towing limit for your specific vehicle. A dealer service manager is seldom an expert on towing and he can't speak for Toyota or override Toyota's published specifications.

If you started with the published dry weight of a Scamp 13', I am afraid you will be in a for a rude surprise when you see actual weights in the "Real World Weights" post.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by floyd

SORRY, I edited the comment.... To read 58 MPH! which is what I meant to say!
Thanks!

Well, I wondered...

You know you've been one of my heroes ever since that unbelievably sweet
"me and my wife of forty years dance outside the trailer" post wa-a-a-y back when. Still brings tears to my eyes when I think about it.

So...how's the gas mileage at that blistering 58mph, anyway? ...........

[MC1]

Originally Posted by j-rod

hi folks,

He also indicated that I didn't need a transmission cooler because the rav4's transmission cooler is heavy duty from the factory.

The dealer could be right but it is good to know as Mike suggested having an additional tranny cooler is a good idea. It will cause no ill effects, can be good insurance, and has a very low cost.

Our car has is designed for high performance use and has a speed limiter set at 147MPH but we also have an extra large tranny cooler. It is the same cooler used on large motor homes. Works great. [/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by j-rod

What I didn't like was how much the trailer bounced when I went over bumps and the resulting push/pull as the trailer hit the road again. I am not a trailer expert but I believe this was due to the suspension being not loaded on the trailer. Anyone have the "bouncing problem" with their travel trailer?
thanks,
jared

Leaf springs have been around since the era of farm wagons. They work best for carrying heavy loads. The bounce is common with leafs and small high pressure tires can make matters worse. Like you have noticed leafs are happy when loaded . Good shocks will also help. Torsion axles with shocks are best but cost much more. Hope this helps.

[RogerDat]

Scamp uses a torsion axle. Combines function of leaf spring and shock absorber. Inside the axle tube has heavy rubber tire is on arm that has to twist against the rubber to move up. Typically ride smoother than plain leaf springs. This two minute video from one of the axle manufactures should make it clear how they work.

Dexter Torflex® Suspension Axles - YouTube

Should add leaf springs can be rebuilt and with good shocks provide similar ride characteristics. But do not add structural strength to the frame. Some folks like the added height and ability to rebuild provided by leaf springs.

Life expectancy of a torsion axle is between 10 and 20 years.

I think you can put some faith in Toyota dealer service manager if you give them actual weight of your trailer and they install equipment. After all where are you going to go for any warranty work? It's not like dealer is going to say we voided your warranty.

On the legal question I would also think that having the dealer install "proper" equipment for towing your trailer should all but eliminate legal concerns. If the dealer installs it knowing what it's going to tow how would you be towing beyond rated capacity?

My dad used to tow a modest 5th wheel around Colorado with a small 4 cyl Toyota pickup with a tow package from dealer, I mention this because his nick name in their RV group was "slow poke". Just saying speed won't be your thing.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

Scamp uses a torsion axle.

That is impressive.

Torsion axles have an interesting history. A common place where they were used was on tanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_bar_suspension

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Well, I wondered...

You know you've been one of my heroes ever since that unbelievably sweet
"me and my wife of forty years dance outside the trailer" post wa-a-a-y back when. Still brings tears to my eyes when I think about it.

So...how's the gas mileage at that blistering 58mph, anyway? ...........

Thank you for the kind words...

With the 2.3L Escape on a 5800 mile trip through every type of fowl weather and including driving over the Rockies to Oregon and back, our trip average was 22.8MPG.
Driving in the Midwest in summer weather and driving on our yearly pilgrimage to Florida, we regularly get around 24MPG and often more, even reaching 26 on occasion.
As we approach 65MPH though, the fuel mileage starts to suffer dramatically sometimes even dipping below 20.

In contrast.... My 4.0L Ranger pretty much ignores the trailer and averages about 17MPG when towing with little regard to speed or weather conditions, within reason.
(We do best with the Ranger at 63-65MPH.)

[KevinScamps]

Originally Posted by j-rod

hi folks,

thanks for the great replies, I've spoken with my local Toyota dealer. The service manager said that I would be okay, although I shouldn't load the trailer up to much with stuff, no full water tanks, and so forth. And don't go too far, monitor the engine temp. He also indicated that I didn't need a transmission cooler because the rav4's transmission cooler is heavy duty from the factory. I towed an 8' tent trailer last year that was 1400 lbs with the rav4. I didn't like it, not because the vehicle didn't do well, I thought the rav4 did very well. What I didn't like was how much the trailer bounced when I went over bumps and the resulting push/pull as the trailer hit the road again. I am not a trailer expert but I believe this was due to the suspension being not loaded on the trailer. The suspension was a leaf spring design which is the same as my utility trailer. When my utility trailer is empty it bounces a fair bit which is I believe to be the same as what the tent trailer did last year. Anyone have the "bouncing problem" with their travel trailer?

thanks,
jared

I had the exact same experience with my tent trailer and bought a 13' Scamp which I pull with a 4 cylinder Rav4. I put brakes on the Scamp, installed a brake controller, and a transmission cooler for good measure ($200 bucks). No problems so far after towing well over 5,000 miles. You are nearing the "maximum limits," but should not be over.

I average around 19 MPG while towing which is about the same efficiency as many TVs with no trailer! I pull it up I70 coming out of Denver regularly in the summer. That is just about the longest steepest high climb you can get from 5,000 up to 11,000. Very steepest point I slow to around 40, but most of it can be done at 50 or more. I don't like the revs to go much over 3500 rpm.

[Mike Magee]

How about taking the 'liability' discussion to another thread? It's sorta tangential to the OP's questions.

Wow, I think Kevin kind of nailed it, seeing how he is doing exactly what the OP wants to do. That was a good post, Kevin.

About the trailer bounce... you'll never eliminate that completely. But it can be reduced. If heavier rear springs are available aftermarket, that can help. None were made for my Highlander, so I bought an Andersen No-Sway hitch and it took away about 80% of the jiggles and porpoise motions. The Andersen isn't made for a class 2 receiver, not sure if the Rav4 has a class 2 or 3.... but other weight distributing hitches with spring bars would act similarly.

[j-rod]

Hi folks,

Thanks for your advice, the legal conversation was interesting, although I'm not a lawyer so I can't comment. I was very discouraged on Saturday after looking at some trucks (Toyota) and finding out they were very expensive, but today I got home and opened my paper. Apparently I had never noticed the Ford ads. I can get an F150 STX with a 3.7L V6 extended cab well within my budget (Love Toyota, but the trucks are TOO MUCH $). This means my wife and I will go back to looking at the Scamp 19' fifth wheel which I believe will fit my family much better. I wish to thank you all for your input and I will keep all of your information in mind as I continue to learn more about fiberglass RVs.


thanks,
jared

[Bob Miller]

About almost everything there is a caveat emptor:

"Some" of the newer trucks have very bed high sides that "May" create clearance issues with the 19' Scamps and some other 5th wheel trailers. As a precaution, I suggest that you contact Scamp and ask them if they have any information about fitment to that vehicle.

As some Chinese guy may have said: Better to have Heads-Up, than get caught with head in sand.....

As you may notice, I use the term "May" a lot in my posts.

[Mary F]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

How about taking the 'liability' discussion to another thread? It's sorta tangential to the OP's questions.

Good idea, Mike Magee! The liability issues have been moved to a new thread called Liability and overweight towing...

[Mike Magee]

Jared, the F150s and Tundras and Rams and Silverados all tend to get discounted very heavily to stay competitive with each other. If the bed side height turns out to be problematic with the Scamp gooseneck, you still could look at the other brands. I've seen TV commercials featuring steeply discounted Tundras, so you may be able to stay with Toyota.

With a hitch in the middle of a truck bed, you don't get anywhere near as much bouncing, plus virtually no chance of sway.

[Jon in AZ]

I believe a 3" raised axle is a Scamp option on the 19' to accommodate the higher bed walls on newer full-size trucks. I'd check with Scamp regarding your intended TV. I notice some ads mention the axle and if not you can check with the seller. Good luck with your search!