See Level Sensors for Bigfoot ?

[currinh]

Ben:

No problem and not lazy at all. But interesting post. Confirms my wanting to do the gallon bucket testing. Will let everyone know when I have data.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by btroxell

Sorry, it was late and I was being lazy. Here is the post I made on the Bigfoot forum:

Ben

[JonRaw]

Originally Posted by btroxell

Sorry, it was late and I was being lazy. Here is the post I made on the Bigfoot forum:



Ben

Thanks Ben, I went looking for the thread and couldn't find it so I appreciate you reposting here. That's very strange considering what the Bigfoot website says for a 21RB:

Fresh Water

US Gal

litres

34

128

Grey Water

US Gal

litres

27

102

Black Water

US Gal

litres

22

84

Did you drain using the valve at the rear of the storage area under the bed? I'm curious how much water there was between the point when the pump couldn't get any more water, and what came out of the drain valve after.

[btroxell]

I had an email conversation with Grant from Bigfoot about the tanks sizes last year when I did this experiment. His remarks were:

I checked with the tank Manufacturer and these are the # supplied.

The Fresh tank 29.1 US Gallons

The Grey and Black are both 22 US Gallons.

I think the difference is the somehow the 21FB #s were inserted to the 21RB?

The original brochure of the 21 RB I found shows

30 fresh
22 grey
22 black.22 black.

Grant

I'm not sure why he would say 21FB tanks were inserted in 21RB when the specs say the tanks are the same size.

Yes, I drained the fresh water tank using the lower valve. From my measurements, there is about 3.5 to 4 gallons that are not accessible by the pump.
I have been thinking about changing the tank a little by raising it an inch so that all the water can be pumped from the tank and changing the fill and vent so that I don't spill 3-4 gallons of water as I drive down the road. A few people have said (and a friend drove behind watching) that water spills out of the fill cover in the back.
Projects for another day...

Ben

[currinh]

I tested the tanks and tank monitor this afternoon. Our particular 25RQ has the following usable tank size.

Fresh = 40 gal
Gray = 37 gal
Black = 36 gal

Somewhat smaller than advertised but within reason. Some is lost in tanks not filling completely and not emptying fully.

The fresh tank monitor looks like this:

The monitor indicates the tank empty at pumping 39 gallons and goes dry at 40 gallons. The monitor jumps 0 to 1/3 at 2 gallons, 1/3 to 2/3 at 15 gal and 2/3 to full at 31 gal. These are 5%, 38% and 77%. If we assume it should change when closer to the next level, the readings should be 17%, 50% and 83%.

A plot of the gray tank monitor readings looks like this:

The gray tank holds 37 gallons, overflowing 38 gallons. The monitor jumps 0 to 1/3 at 4 gallons 1/3 to 2/3 at 15 gal. and 2/3 to full at 31 gal. These are 11%, 41% and 82% (rather than again 17%, 50% & 83%)

Finally, the black tank plot is as:

The black has a useful size of 36 gallons. Monitor jumps 0 to 1/3 full at 3 gal, 1/3 to 2/3 at 16 gal, and 2/3 to full at 33 gal. 8%, 44% and 92% (rather than 17%, 50% and 83%).

SO, if we assume the monitor reads the level the tank is closest to (0, 1/3, 2/3 or 1) the readings aren't terrible. Might turn out to be useful readings if interpreted as suggested. I hope this is of some use. If you have a different interpretation I'd like to hear it.

Not like a SeeLevel which gives gradations of 6-8%, some 15 levels. But the trouble of installing a SeeLevel is real. We'll likely give the stock sensors a change and decide this winter whether to change them out.

But this could all change. Any further information on a SeeLevel install will be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Bueno]

Originally Posted by Russ Foster

These are the only sensors that Grant @ Bigfoot is using now.

You are correct. I just picked up a 2020 Bigfoot and it has SeeLevel sensors.

[Russ Foster]

Originally Posted by currinh

Russ:

So the newer Bigfoots have a SeeLevel system? The readout on our new to us 2018 25RQ doesn't look like a SeeLevel. The readouts are E - 1/3 - 2/3 - F via rows of lights. The SeeLevels I've used before have a readout in % in about 7-8% gradation. I don't see any manufacturer's name on the existing readout.

Some non-probe (like capacitive) sensors would be great, and I hope it's true. Hoping this I'll likely use what's there at least till we start having trouble.

Thanks for the input. Can anyone confirm or deny what Bigfoot uses?

After testing the Sea Level sensors, Grant began installing them exclusively ( I'm guessing) around Spring of 2019.
We were fortunate enough to have them installed and you are correct, they display in percentage. There is also a battery level read out on the same display panel.
In addition to this change, Grant has eliminated the transfer switch between the hot water tank and the microwave.

[Russ Foster]

Originally Posted by currinh

I tested the tanks and tank monitor this afternoon. Our particular 25RQ has the following usable tank size.

Fresh = 40 gal
Gray = 37 gal
Black = 36 gal

Somewhat smaller than advertised but within reason. Some is lost in tanks not filling completely and not emptying fully.

The fresh tank monitor looks like this:

The monitor indicates the tank empty at pumping 39 gallons and goes dry at 40 gallons. The monitor jumps 0 to 1/3 at 2 gallons, 1/3 to 2/3 at 15 gal and 2/3 to full at 31 gal. These are 5%, 38% and 77%. If we assume it should change when closer to the next level, the readings should be 17%, 50% and 83%.

A plot of the gray tank monitor readings looks like this:

The gray tank holds 37 gallons, overflowing 38 gallons. The monitor jumps 0 to 1/3 at 4 gallons 1/3 to 2/3 at 15 gal. and 2/3 to full at 31 gal. These are 11%, 41% and 82% (rather than again 17%, 50% & 83%)

Finally, the black tank plot is as:

The black has a useful size of 36 gallons. Monitor jumps 0 to 1/3 full at 3 gal, 1/3 to 2/3 at 16 gal, and 2/3 to full at 33 gal. 8%, 44% and 92% (rather than 17%, 50% and 83%).

SO, if we assume the monitor reads the level the tank is closest to (0, 1/3, 2/3 or 1) the readings aren't terrible. Might turn out to be useful readings if interpreted as suggested. I hope this is of some use. If you have a different interpretation I'd like to hear it.

Not like a SeeLevel which gives gradations of 6-8%, some 15 levels. But the trouble of installing a SeeLevel is real. We'll likely give the stock sensors a change and decide this winter whether to change them out.

But this could all change. Any further information on a SeeLevel install will be appreciated.

Thanks.

Does your trailer include a black water rinse valve? If available after every campsite visit ( especially when there are others waiting to dump!) I used the clean out valve and maintained zero numbers on the display.....I'm sure others do this, but I just began the practice of running the trailer onto small blocks to "tilt" the trailer to the "dump" side. It worked well and emptied quickly. Be cautious though....I was at a place this Fall where the water supply hose was @ City pressure, realized it immediately and shut it off. Just not sure how this would affect the various valves inside the tank, especially this fittings.

[currinh]

Russ:

I installed SeeLevel sensors on our Escape and really liked them. Our 2018 Bigfoot doesn't have them. If the tanks weren't buried I'd install them on our Bigfoot. As it is i'm still considering how much trouble it would be. Maybe this winter.

Wow, I thought the microwave/water heater switch was an add on. Our 2018 came to us with a 1000w inverter, transfer switch and Victron battery monitor. I thought this switch was part of that installation. What was the purpose for this? I thought it was so you couldn't use the water heater and microwave together off the inverter. Running either of these off battery seems foolish to me, but could happen.

Thanks.

Hugh

Originally Posted by Russ Foster

After testing the Sea Level sensors, Grant began installing them exclusively ( I'm guessing) around Spring of 2019.
We were fortunate enough to have them installed and you are correct, they display in percentage. There is also a battery level read out on the same display panel.
In addition to this change, Grant has eliminated the transfer switch between the hot water tank and the microwave.

[currinh]

Russ:

Our Bigfoot does have a black water rinse connection. I don't think it is working though. I can hook it up and looking down the toilet I don't see any action. I do use a wand down the toilet to clean out the tank when I can. I don't think city water pressure would harm the rinse system. I suspect it's just a line to sprayers or a spray bar in the tank. Higher pressure, to a point, should help. But since I don't know, don't do this. I do but you shouldn't :-)

But no rinse out port for the gray tank.

The last time dumped we raised the curb side on blocks. I think it helped a little but gray didn't go to zero.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Russ Foster

Does your trailer include a black water rinse valve? If available after every campsite visit ( especially when there are others waiting to dump!) I used the clean out valve and maintained zero numbers on the display.....I'm sure others do this, but I just began the practice of running the trailer onto small blocks to "tilt" the trailer to the "dump" side. It worked well and emptied quickly. Be cautious though....I was at a place this Fall where the water supply hose was @ City pressure, realized it immediately and shut it off. Just not sure how this would affect the various valves inside the tank, especially this fittings.

[JonRaw]

Originally Posted by currinh

Russ:

I installed SeeLevel sensors on our Escape and really liked them. Our 2018 Bigfoot doesn't have them. If the tanks weren't buried I'd install them on our Bigfoot. As it is i'm still considering how much trouble it would be. Maybe this winter.

Wow, I thought the microwave/water heater switch was an add on. Our 2018 came to us with a 1000w inverter, transfer switch and Victron battery monitor. I thought this switch was part of that installation. What was the purpose for this? I thought it was so you couldn't use the water heater and microwave together off the inverter. Running either of these off battery seems foolish to me, but could happen.

Thanks.

Hugh

As far as I know, The microwave/water heater switch is factory. Mine has it. The microwave and water heater are both AC not DC so you can't run them off the battery (without an inverter.)

Are your microwave/water heater connected to run through the inverter? I have no inverter so mine only run off shore power which is of course AC.

How much battery do you have? I wouldn't expect the microwave or the water heater to run off an inverter for too terribly long without a serious battery bank.

My water heater dual mode, either AC or propane. There is a separate set of switches to turn it on. One turns it on using AC, the other is to turn it on using propane.

[JonRaw]

Originally Posted by Russ Foster

Does your trailer include a black water rinse valve? If available after every campsite visit ( especially when there are others waiting to dump!) I used the clean out valve and maintained zero numbers on the display.....I'm sure others do this, but I just began the practice of running the trailer onto small blocks to "tilt" the trailer to the "dump" side. It worked well and emptied quickly. Be cautious though....I was at a place this Fall where the water supply hose was @ City pressure, realized it immediately and shut it off. Just not sure how this would affect the various valves inside the tank, especially this fittings.

Originally Posted by currinh

Russ:

Our Bigfoot does have a black water rinse connection. I don't think it is working though. I can hook it up and looking down the toilet I don't see any action. I do use a wand down the toilet to clean out the tank when I can. I don't think city water pressure would harm the rinse system. I suspect it's just a line to sprayers or a spray bar in the tank. Higher pressure, to a point, should help. But since I don't know, don't do this. I do but you shouldn't :-)

But no rinse out port for the gray tank.

The last time dumped we raised the curb side on blocks. I think it helped a little but gray didn't go to zero.

Thanks.

I have used the black flush at an RV dumping spot where there was no one behind me. It was a black hose connected to a non potable water source. The hose was already there. I would never connect my drinking water hose to that black flush port no matter what. The owners manual says the following:

"With the dump valves open, attach a garden hose to the black tank rinse inlet connection.
Turn on water supply to garden hose and allow the water to run for approximately 3 to 5 minutes to rinse tank.
Turn off water supply to garden hose."


Doesn't say anything about worrying about pressure. Since the valve is open, I wouldn't expect it to cause any issues. I didn't look down the toilet while doing it but I heard the water flowing through the sewer line so I know it was flushing water through.

[Russ Foster]

To be honest I do not know the purpose of having a transfer switch between the microwave and the hot water tank. It just seemed archaic to me. Grant simply added an additional breaker so both were on their own circuit. Now it's standard practice for them at the factory.

[Defenestrator]

Probably because if both are running at once, there's a high chance of popping the main 30A breaker. Especially if the air conditioner kicks in or something.

[currinh]

Jon:

Our microwave and water heater are set up to run through the inverter. However, the inverter is an after market add on. It's a whopping 1000w inverter so might run one or the other if not both. We have two 6v golf cart batteries, which would not run the microwave or water heater for very long. For the water heater probably not long enough to get hot.

We don't use the microwave and are thinking of taking it out and use the space as an additional shelf. The water heater runs AC or propane, and we run propane off grid. This is seldom though to save water. The water must be run a minute or so to get hot water flowing. This seems to us a real waste of water, uses up fresh, and fills the gray. Off grid we tend to use a tea kettle for hot water.

Our water heater also has a switch to turn on via AC and a second switch to turn on propane. The water heater/microwave switch must be set to water heater and the AC switch be on for the water heater to work on AC.

I see a 110v breaker for the microwave but none for the water heater. They must use the same breaker?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by JonRaw

As far as I know, The microwave/water heater switch is factory. Mine has it. The microwave and water heater are both AC not DC so you can't run them off the battery (without an inverter.)

Are your microwave/water heater connected to run through the inverter? I have no inverter so mine only run off shore power which is of course AC.

How much battery do you have? I wouldn't expect the microwave or the water heater to run off an inverter for too terribly long without a serious battery bank.

My water heater dual mode, either AC or propane. There is a separate set of switches to turn it on. One turns it on using AC, the other is to turn it on using propane.

[currinh]

Russ:

The switch between microwave and hot water seemed strange to me also. For ours I'll likely pull out the microwave (we don't use it). Then wire the old microwave outlet and the water heater together. Or better yet, put in another breaker and wire the microwave plug and a new 110v outlet where the switch in now. Then use the original breaker for just the hot water heater. It looks like the panel has space for more breakers. We could really use an outlet near the floor by the dinette and this would give us that.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Russ Foster

To be honest I do not know the purpose of having a transfer switch between the microwave and the hot water tank. It just seemed archaic to me. Grant simply added an additional breaker so both were on their own circuit. Now it's standard practice for them at the factory.

[currinh]

I haven't looked at the draws but my guess is 30A should be able to run the microwave and water heater together. But if you throw the air conditioner into the mix, probably not. I think the air conditioner draws about 20A from 110v source. That leaves only 10A or 1100w for other loads. Could well be to keep from going over 30A for the whole trailer.

Good thinking. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Defenestrator

Probably because if both are running at once, there's a high chance of popping the main 30A breaker. Especially if the air conditioner kicks in or something.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by currinh

I haven't looked at the draws but my guess is 30A should be able to run the microwave and water heater together. But if you throw the air conditioner into the mix, probably not. I think the air conditioner draws about 20A from 110v source. That leaves only 10A or 1100w for other loads. Could well be to keep from going over 30A for the whole trailer.

Good thinking. Thanks.

Refrigerator 2.7 amps

AC 15.0 amps

Water Heat 12.0 amps

Micro wave 12.0 amps

Toaster 7.0-12.0 amps

If we want to use our appliances with impunity we would need a 50 amp service. My old farm house only has 60 amps.