2002 scamp

[Kip in Mi.]

We are considering buying a 2002 Scamp 13 my big concern is the post I have read about replacing axles. Is this a common thing on these trailers ? Thanks in advance

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Kip in Mi.

We are considering buying a 2002 Scamp 13 my big concern is the post I have read about replacing axles. Is this a common thing on these trailers ? Thanks in advance

The need for axle replacement on a Scamp13 should be approached as a mechanical issue, not as an urban myth or by shaking your fist at it to see how it reacts!
I have a 2004 Scamp13D with around seventy thousand towed miles on it. Inspection indicates that it will likely have at least another ten years of service life if not possibly twice that.
Wear indicators for a Dexter torsion axle would be excessive negative camber and toe-out. These will result in greater tire wear to the inside of the tires.
Everything put together sooner or later falls apart, but I have had servicable axles on thirty year old Scamp13s.
The short answer is...No, it is not a particular problem on Scamp13s or on torsion axles in general, but a Dexter axle is serviceable as a unit at a remarkably reasonable cost. As are brakes and tires and taillights...etc.

[Jon in AZ]

It's definitely a consideration in an older FGRV. Scamp and many others use a rubber torsion axle, which, over time, can lose its resiliency and sag. That said, 2002 is not old for a glass egg! You can get an idea by looking at the seller's pictures. Look for the amount of wheel/tire that is covered by the fender well and compare it to a new one, say on the Scamp website. If it looks to be sitting really low, it may be due for a swap. Even then, for most people it would not be a deal-breaker. For one thing, it's a good opportunity to upgrade to electric brakes, which a lot of the 13' units do not have (including mine, and I wish it did!).

If you do buy, Scamp recommends putting the trailer on jack stands to relieve the pressure on the rubber when stored for periods of time. I'm thinking that helps preserve the factory ride height, but the rubber will still eventually become brittle.

In my mind, more important issues to be concerned about in a used FGRV are cracks in the frame (especially around the tongue in Scamps), door sag, water damage to the floor, and owner modifications that compromise structural integrity (the closet by the door and the bars between the lower and upper cabinets in the kitchenette support the roof in the Scamp and others).

Good luck with your search!

[Carol H]

I dont understand the question and answers at the top of this thread... there is nothing measurable to the answers - i.e. how many years is Often? or how many years is Rarely?

At some point in every brand of trailers life it will need a new axle... the big question is how long is normal .... some may say 15 years some may say 25 years....when you see a trailer riding real low over the wheels thats a good indicator that the trailer needs a new axle. Scamp uses Dexter axles which are a pretty well respected axle manufacture.

I have a 92 with its original axle and it still has lots of clearance above the tires and it rides fine, no tire wear issues.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carol H

I dont understand the question and answers at the top of this thread... there is nothing measurable to the answers - i.e. how many years is Often? or how many years is Rarely?
I have a 92 with its original axle and it still has lots of clearance above the tires and it rides fine, no tire wear issues.

Camber, Toe-in, and Tire Wear are measurable...

Sag may well be too...but not so much!
Unless, of course you do as I did and take actual measurements from the top of the rim straight up to the wheelwell in the Scamp parking lot at delivery. Then if you could keep your notes for ten years....(they must be around here somewhere ?!?!)

One point often overlooked is that torsion axles tend to take a "set" within the first thousand miles then loose very little height after that over a very long time.
As you say... "Often" and "Rarely" are amorphous terms, but considering the variety of treatment and use these trailers are subjected to that can hardly be avoided.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by floyd

Camber, Toe-in, and Tire Wear are measurable...

Sag may well be too...but not so much!
Unless, of course you do as I did and take actual measurements from the top of the rim straight up to the wheelwell in the Scamp parking lot at delivery. Then if you could keep your notes for ten years....(they must be around here somewhere ?!?!)

One point often overlooked is that torsion axles tend to take a "set" within the first thousand miles then loose very little height after that over a very long time.
As you say... "Often" and "Rarely" are amorphous terms, but considering the variety of treatment and use these trailers are subjected to that can hardly be avoided.

While I agree that the signs of needing a new axle are measurable & the reasons for the change varies but as indicatied I am not clear on how one can actually answer the question of How often do scamp axles need replacing? with only the answer of Often, Seldom or Rarely and no definition assigned to each. Does Rarely mean after 15 years or 25 years. Whats Often? - every 10 Years or 15 years?

I have a very scientific approach to keeping an eye on the state of my axle, besides watch for strange tire wear and the trailer bouncing around. I stick my hand up above the tire. If I can fit the full width of my hand and have a couple of inches to spare between the top of the tire and the wheel well its good for another season

[Borrego Dave]

Just throwing this out there to the OPs question but could it maybe make a difference to an axles preformance as to how long it may have been parked ? I would think that after sitting for a number of years, if that was the case with a torsion axle that the rubber in the axle would not have the bounce that was designed into it and the clearance to the wheelwell may not have changed much. Kind of like grabbing a rubberband that has been in the drawer for years....looks good but breaks at the first stretch.

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by floyd

Camber, Toe-in, and Tire Wear are measurable...

Sag may well be too...but not so much!
Unless, of course you do as I did and take actual measurements from the top of the rim straight up to the wheelwell

Sag is measurable, check the Dexter sites for no load, load and shock load specs. Typically measured from the center of spindle to top of mounting bracket. Specs are given in postive (below the bracket) and negative (above the bracket) values.
One factor not mentioned that may affect the lifespan, is wether the trailer stored using jacks or just on the tires/axle alone.

[Eddie Longest]

All good very points but one reason the Torflex axles got a bad reputation in the early Scamp trailers is because they were undersized and maxed out for the load of the trailer. (But not so much for when they were built.) The trailers stayed the same size but with more options , mods. and stuff they were most likely maxed out. Pre mid 80's the S-13 came with a 1200lb axle and the S-16 came with a 2200lb axle. Since many of these trailers are sill on the road 30 years later this is where most of the replacement axles are going. The S-13 now comes equipped with a 2.2K axle and the S-16 & S-19 comes with a 3.5K axle. Dexter now offers the #10 axle with a 4K load rating. If I were replacing an axle or specifying an axle for a S-19 or Casita 17 I would choose this axle.
When evaluating an axle by where the wheel lives in the wheel well can sometimes be misleading. The S-16 & 19 comes with a 22deg. down swing arm start angle. When they go bad they are just slightly above 0 deg., not tucked up into the wheel well like a S-13 may be so people think they are OK when they are really dead. You really have to know the start angle and evaluate the location of the swing arm by using the charts Roy mentioned. The S-13 starts out with a 22 deg. up angle swing arm so it starts it life on the up swing.
If your tires are wearing OK, you don't have a bunch of loose rivets and it passes the bounce test it is more than likely OK. These axles do tend to degrade with age but they don't have an expiration date on them. Not overloading them and storing them with weight off I think really helps extend their life.
Eddie

[Bob Miller]

As a Supreme Court Justice once said about "Adult Pictures", (aka pornography) "I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it"

That's also my description of axle sag. Certainly some Scamps may have survived many years without exhibiting sag, while others will start showing it after as little as 10 years. If it was stored empty and on blocks it will do better, If it was stored full and used as a spare storage room as well, not so good.

Anyway, without measurements etc, I can give a pretty good guess that this example shows an extreme case of axle sag: http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...0-a-63279.html
and is a 100% candidate for a new axle.

As mentioned, look at some in the 5 year old range and compare the distance that the tires go into the wheel well as a guide. If it's a low rider, drive on....

And, at least in my book, it is a big thing. Shelling out parts and labor for a new axle isn't just this weeks beer money, and it will put a good dent in a pile of at least 10 Ben Franklins.

While adding a new axle and brakes will increase the value of a trailer somewhat, it's more of bringing it back to what is expected. Unless it's already priced for condition, I would expect to knock at least $500 off the asking price for that issue alone.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Eddie Longest

All good very points but one reason the Torflex axles got a bad reputation in the early Scamp trailers is because they were undersized and maxed out for the load of the trailer. (But not so much for when they were built.) The trailers stayed the same size but with more options , mods. and stuff they were most likely maxed out. Pre mid 80's the S-13 came with a 1200lb axle and the S-16 came with a 2200lb axle. Since many of these trailers are sill on the road 30 years later this is where most of the replacement axles are going. The S-13 now comes equipped with a 2.2K axle and the S-16 & S-19 comes with a 3.5K axle.

Eddie

Eddie, you raise a very good point regarding the older Scamps and the fact they were built from the factory with an axle that was never designed to take what their loaded weights actually were. Yet there are a lot of them still running around with that original axle.

The other fiberglass trailer that the discussion of axle replacement comes up here very often is the Boler. In the case of the Boler many/most of the trailers that people are asking for info on changing the axle out on are also over 30 years old and in many/most cases running on the original axle.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

As a Supreme Court Justice once said about "Adult Pictures", (aka pornography) "I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it"

That's also my description of axle sag. Certainly some Scamps may have survived many years without exhibiting sag, while others will start showing it after as little as 10 years. If it was stored empty and on blocks it will do better, If it was stored full and used as a spare storage room as well, not so good.

Anyway, without measurements etc, I can give a pretty good guess that this example shows an extreme case of axle sag: http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...0-a-63279.html
and is a 100% candidate for a new axle.

As mentioned, look at some in the 5 year old range and compare the distance that the tires go into the wheel well as a guide. If it's a low rider, drive on....

And, at least in my book, it is a big thing. Shelling out parts and labor for a new axle isn't just this weeks beer money, and it will put a good dent in a pile of at least 10 Ben Franklins.

While adding a new axle and brakes will increase the value of a trailer somewhat, it's more of bringing it back to what is expected. Unless it's already priced for condition, I would expect to knock at least $500 off the asking price for that issue alone.

Are we then to believe that it is possible for a torsion axle to "sag" without affecting alignment?
How about these from the same era?...

[Bob Miller]

No, but we can believe that some trailers are used so little that tires age out before wearing out, even with alignment issues.

For many casual users, that never tow more than 100 miles or so a trip, the tire wear is less than the repair.

On the other hand, a lack of suspension travel also means that a lot more road shock is transferred to the frame and coach shell, increasing the chances of cracks and even failures in either/both.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

No, but we can believe that some trailers are used so little that tires age out before wearing out, even with alignment issues.

For many casual users, that never tow more than 100 miles or so a trip, the tire wear is less than the repair.

On the other hand, a lack of suspension travel also means that a lot more road shock is transferred to the frame and coach shell, increasing the chances of cracks and even failures in either/both.

Well, all righty then!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

No, but we can believe that some trailers are used so little that tires age out before wearing out.

The same can often be said for some of us who are known to put fairly high milage on our trailers each year.

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by Carol H

The same can often be said for some of us

On a personal level, my body is wearing out long before my mind ages out.

[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by floyd

Camber, Toe-in, and Tire Wear are measurable...

Sag may well be too...but not so much!
...

Dunno, I can certainly measure the sag on my wife's ..... er ...... um...... never mind!

[Carol H]

Boys, boys, boys! You will get us all into trouble going down that road! LOL

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Carol H

The same can often be said for some of us who are known to put fairly high milage on our trailers each year.

Ya But... High use owners might have less tolerance for the problem if they scuffed through a set if tires every season, whereas the lighter user might not drive enough miles to do that in even 5 years.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Ya But... High use owners might have less tolerance for the problem if they scuffed through a set if tires every season, whereas the lighter user might not drive enough miles to do that in even 5 years.

LOL I wouldn't count on that.... a nice little older fiberglass trailer down the road from me went through if I am not mistaken 3 sets of tires in one season - two very long trips - before the owner caved in and put a new axle on it

I agree though if I went through a set of tires even in just two years even though a I have been known to put a few miles on the trailers tires each year I would be looking for the best place to get a new axle.