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Old 06-06-2018, 10:37 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by emij View Post
We have one that we haven't installed yet, because the directions say to place it six FEET from the propane sources....In a 16 foot Scamp, no matter where we place it, it will be close to either the stove or the furnace. Any thoughts? This situation is making me feel like it needs to be done before the next camping trip.

My thoughts go out to the two individuals who were hurt. I don't know what we would have done in that situation. It's scary and sad that it happened.

My trailer is a Scamp 13' a little different than a 16'. I found a place that seems to be ok, but never had a propane lead so I don't really know. It's a little further off the floor than I wanted. The propane detector should be full time, that is connected to house battery through the fuse block.

Remember it just takes a small spark to ignite a propane filled trailer. Turning on or off a switch will do it. Loud noises are NOT fun.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:38 AM   #22
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In my 17' Escape, the propane gas detector is located a couple inches above the floor on the front face of a dinette bench seat. That puts it across the aisle from the stove top.
The detector should not be in a drafty area (ie. near the door ).

Regularly vacuum or wipe the face of the detector with a damp cloth to prevent false alarms. Dog farts are apparently another source of false alarms.
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Daniel A. View Post
Small fire extinguishers tend to give a false sense of security, to anyone that has not trained the best thing to do is walk away stay safe.


We that are trained responders have developed a mindset to deal with dangerous situations the average person does not have. You may get lucky and deal with it or it could go completely the other way. No trailer is worth your life.
The small fire extinguishers that are in RV's are pretty useless plus the contents are very dangerous to breath and will kill an animal. We got several foam ones that the contents are safe for humans and animals. The dry ones put out a sand type stuff that when used in an RV renders it pretty useless because of the grit you can't get out of anything. Go to website macthefireguy.com or Google Mac the Fire Guy. He's the top notch person on RV's and fires.
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by emij View Post
Thank you Gordon. The discussion is definitely making me take stock of our best safety practices. We do leave our propane turned off unless actually using it, but I think we will move our fire extinguisher to a door location so it can be grabbed from OUTSIDE the camper. I will double check if the instructions for the alarm say propane using devices or propane source. Maybe install it anyway and see if we get any false alarms. We do have the lines tested once a year by professionals. While the details of this sad event might be nice to have, the discussion about how to prevent it from occurring is so valuable.
A good way to mount a fire extinguisher by the door is to use heavy duty Velcro tape stuck to the wall and to a large juice can that the fire extinguisher can fit in. Sit the can on the floor and press it up against the wall with the Velcro stuck to the can. We've had one mounted like this for several years and can grab the extinguisher in a second or less. We only use foam extinguishers since the dry ones create a toxic air problem. We also keep one next to the bed in case of a fire at night and we'd need to get out quickly. We've been to several fire classes at large rallies and I'd recommend for everyone to attend a class. The idea is to get out and stay out. An RV goes up in a few minutes or less. We've got friends that could tell you how fast a 38 ft can burn up.
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:24 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post
I'm glad you brought up the disposable cylinders. Many years, some where around the 4 or 5th backpacking trip my wife I went on we were camped at this small lake with maybe two place you could camp on the lake, one where the trail came in an another about 1/3 the way around. Next morning as we were cooking breakfast there was a bit of commotion at the other campsite. I could hear swish, swish like something spinning and a lot of yelling. When we left we went by the now empty camp to find a disposable propane cylinder scorched ground in a large circle.



Fast forward to another car camping trip using disposable cylinders, I removed the cylinder from the stove preparing to put it away. The valve that's suppose to close on the cylinder at that time did NOT close. I screwed it back on. I often think about what would have happened if there' would have been an open flame close.


It will be interesting and possibly informative when the fire dept publishes a full report.
I am not insinuating that what I am posting is what happened at all but an answer to disposable cylinder safety. Many people try to refill them with some kind of an attachment but that is not safe. Never ever refill a disposable cylinder. This is just a safety issue. They are called disposable for a reason.
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:26 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post


BTW, I forgot to mention that its not a bad idea at all to turn the tank valve off when you are going to be away from the camper. A blaring propane alarm won't do much good if there is no one around to hear it. And an unattended camper with a gas leak is the perfect situation for an explosive situation.
You can't turn off your propane if the fridge is running on it. You'll end up with warm spoiled food.
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:33 PM   #27
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I would be interested to know if this was a newer Scamp, or one that had been "refurbished". I know my new (2018) Casita has the copper propane lines running along the walls within the cabinets near the floor. I carry things in those cabinets and wonder if all the bouncing the trailer takes couldn't break one of those lines? Outside, below the floor and behind the curbside tire the propane lines are visible. I also have concern if a stone, or piece of road debris could get kicked into it and break the line? I always travel with the propane turned off. But, turn it on for hot water and heat when I park.
To protect the lines inside from being hit by something buy a pool noodle and split it lengthwise. Put it over the lines. If that is to big buy some of the concrete tubing that you put into large cracks before using a in the crack. The pool noodles are $1 at Dollar Tree and around that at many stores. The noodles cut with a razor knife real easy. Most likely the trailer bounce won't break the line since everything moves as a unit. The stuff doesn't flex because the trailer doesn't flex it just bounces. A line could jar loose though with the vibration.
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:35 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Jann Todd View Post
You can't turn off your propane if the fridge is running on it. You'll end up with warm spoiled food.
Obviously.. I should have said if you don't need the tank on, you can turn the valve to off for a little added safety.
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Old 06-06-2018, 04:32 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Jann Todd View Post
You can't turn off your propane if the fridge is running on it. You'll end up with warm spoiled food.



That all depends on what foods you put in the fridge and the temperature outside.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:48 AM   #30
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Interesting related note... Dog farts will set off a gas detector, at lest the wall outlet home ones. Ask me how I know.

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Old 06-13-2018, 12:01 PM   #31
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I sometimes wonder about mice and propane lines, will they chew through the lines if they aren't copper?
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:46 PM   #32
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propane leak

Last year I had a propane leak in my 3 yr old Scamp. As a licenced gas fitter I used my propane/gas detector and zeroed in on an area in among the cook top burners. After removing burners I used soap to check for a leak at the burner control valves. The valves are a tapered cone shape, sealed by pressure from the retainer bracket and the lubricant. These valves will leak if they get dry. It is a good idea to have these valves tested and re-lubricated with special control valve lubricant, especially if you use the stove frequently.
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:02 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Manitoba Jim View Post
Last year I had a propane leak in my 3 yr old Scamp. As a licenced gas fitter I used my propane/gas detector and zeroed in on an area in among the cook top burners. After removing burners I used soap to check for a leak at the burner control valves. The valves are a tapered cone shape, sealed by pressure from the retainer bracket and the lubricant. These valves will leak if they get dry. It is a good idea to have these valves tested and re-lubricated with special control valve lubricant, especially if you use the stove frequently.
That sounds like very good info.. is the lubing something a very skilled DIYer could do? If so, any instructions or links to the lubricant?

Tnx for the tip.
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:18 PM   #34
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Portable gas sniffer on Amazon for $29.99 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I can't tell you how many different times I've used it for different things.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:22 AM   #35
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When we redid our '73 amerigo, we discovered the propane lines were severed nearly clear through from what we discovered later had been a major crash.

If your rig has been in any kind of crash, check such things even if all seems fine. The forces involved in even relatively minor crashes can be powerful and damaging.

Our condolences to those injured and our best wishes for everyone's future safety.


BEST,
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Old 06-16-2018, 08:40 AM   #36
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[QUOTE=gordon2;700055]
Damage to the lines from stuff bouncing around seems unlikely to me, but still possible. I do in fact take some precautions to limit that from happening, also to protect the water lines which run next to the propane line. It seems like a reasonable precaution even if the risk is low.

While refurbing our 13, i discovered two breaks in the furnace line. I removed the furnace and that segment of copper line. Can't get the cap to seal at the flare connector. Also there is a small leak at fridge connection. Anyone know how to make flare connections seal better? I found my dad's flare tool and I will try it to hopefully fix flare end slightly bent or malformed.

A spray bottle of soapy water solution is an easy way to detect gas leaks.
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Old 06-17-2018, 07:51 PM   #37
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A spray bottle of soapy water solution is an easy way to detect gas leaks.
but only at the joints / connections, and only the ones you can get to. A manometer pressure drop test will check the entire system. Thats why annual inspections by professionals is the standard recommendation.

As for flaring.. I have no tips.. that one of those skills I think best left to someone who has the experience, not that you cant get that experience. If it were me I would get a gas guy to make up the needed piping.
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:54 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Jann Todd View Post
I am not insinuating that what I am posting is what happened at all but an answer to disposable cylinder safety. Many people try to refill them with some kind of an attachment but that is not safe. Never ever refill a disposable cylinder. This is just a safety issue. They are called disposable for a reason.



That was a warning about disposable containers valve failing, which does happen. A spark of any kind close by and you'll have a problem. Just be careful when removing the disposable.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:02 AM   #39
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Suburban 3-burner with oven

This may be a good opportunity to share my experience with the Suburban 3-burner top with oven that came with my 2004 Scamp 5th wheel. It is model SRN3SWBM.

The cook top never gave us any problems, the oven has been "interesting". Trying to use the oven after buying the Scamp in 2013, I discovered that lighting it resulted in a small fire way back between the metal walls where the insulation is installed. The main burner line was broken where it enters the brass nut that makes the connection to the oven burner. Obviously by metal fatigue, caused by vibration. The lines are aluminum, which is more prone to fatigue and easier to damage otherwise. After a temporary repair that did not last long, I replaced the line. All is still good in that respect years later.

On our last trip, a few weeks ago, we observed that it was difficult to light the pilot. Then while using a top burner and lighting the oven the result was a small flame under the white top cover. Shutting the control valve took care of it and the oven was off limits. The pilot line, 3/16 size was broken where it leaves the nut that makes the connection to the control valve. Also that line rubbed on something and may have had a second small leak, although I could not confirm that. This time I replaced the aluminum line with copper. Lighting the pilot flame now works as expected, since it now has the right gas pressure and flow.

All this required removing the oven and disassembling it completely. While at it, I replaced the size 6 or 8 sheet metal screws with size 14 and added a few extra to get the whole thing to stay together. I got a lot of practice in assembling cheap sheet metal stuff...

These repairs are not "rocket science", but they are tedious and require care. In both instances I got useful tips from the friendly people who sell or service the propane systems and hardware. I would be buying a new burner-oven set if I did not have the time to work on this, and would be looking at the new designs carefully and looking for weak spots, such as Aluminum lines and such.

And, yes, testing for leaks before declaring mission accomplished is very important. Both by sniffing to find the big ones and by soap bubbles.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:11 AM   #40
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...
And, yes, testing for leaks before declaring mission accomplished is very important. Both by sniffing to find the big ones and by soap bubbles.
I feel like a broken record but here I go again.... sniffing and soap bubbles will find many leaks, and will also miss some.

Connecting a manometer will read about 11 inches of water column pressure. Shut off the tank and drop that pressure to 7 or 8, then watch it for 15-20 minutes. If the pressure remains, then you can declare the entire system to be leak free. Not just what you can (or cannot) smell, or the fittings you can (or cannot) reach with soap.

At least that is basically the way I understand that a professional does a leak test. Bubble tests work better to find a leak after one is detected.
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