1996 Subaru Legacy AWD pull 13 scamp?

[honda03842]

Tom, Certainly weigh your new Scamp 13. We weigh our 16 virtually every year and the tongue more often. Fully loaded for our extended trips we weigh in at 2600 lbs, that includes our tongue weight.

Our son pulls a Scamp 13 and is delighted with it. His is a 1977 (no typo). They do last and that had separated fiberglass trailers from the rest.

Electric brakes were a smart choice, they would be my first option choice.

Wishing you many safe travels.

Norm

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by TomK

I am fairly certain our 2011 Forester should be up to the task for our Scamp 13 Std. with front couch.


Tom

Tom I am pretty sure it is also! ;-)

You would have to work pretty hard at filling up a Scamp 13 to get it up over 2000lbs.

[TomK]

I believe the single most valuable thread for me in this entire forum was Fredericks "Trailer Weights in the Real World" when it came to picking out a trailer and tow vehicle combination. It was a real eye opener to say the least. If it weren't for this forum and all the generous people that subscribe and contribute, all the consumers would have to go on would be the wildly optimistic brochures and websites of some manufacturers.

They are trying to put their products in the best possible light after all. I'll stop short of saying they lie, but they do mislead. One term I wish they would drop is "Dry Weight". That sounds to me and others I'm sure, as the trailer without water in the tanks and maybe empty propane bottles. After getting my degree from the FGRV forum, I realize they must mean taking out everything that is removable, i.e.. hatch covers, cushions, battery, propane bottle, etc. The term "Stripped Weight" might be more accurate.

Carol, if I remember correctly, you tow, or used to tow with an Outback? If something happens to our Forester, that will be our next vehicle. I can't say enough about the brand. BTW, our Forester is sage green. We call it our "Sage Coach".

Norm, I know this is the wrong thread, but wanted you to know a good friend is a big fan of the Honda Oddesy (sp?) He's on his second and never had any problems with them. I had a Civic and Accord in the early 80's and found them to be very reliable. But then you already know that, eh?

Tom

[honda03842]

Tom,

As important as weigh is when hill climbing, it represents a small part of towing driving while frontal area and trailer shape are always there and generally represent the more significant load.

Interestingly when weight comes into play on hills, the effect of frontal area becomes less important because for many of us we're going slower.

Things like roof top air conditioners and awnings add to the 'effective' frontal area.

There is much that we all can do, particularly when towing with a smaller tow vehicle to make them more effective tow vehicles.

As to the Odyssey, from what I read it has traditional Honda reliability. There are some things I would wish for that are not there but certainly we'll have plenty of volume. This year we saw 3 couples traveling in Notre Dame Provincial Park in Mini-vans, Ginny says we could definitely sleep in the Odyssey.

Safe travels and I'm sure your Subaru will work well.

[TomK]

I understand Norm. The elimination of drag is important. It is probably the biggest factor in reducing MPG and performance when towing at speed. I was an aircraft mechanic for approximately 25 years and many of the same skills will be used for this new pastime. I find it interesting that the 18 wheelers are now going to new lengths to reduce drag now that fuel is so expensive. You see more and more trailers with fairings front and rear.

When we ordered the Scamp, I didn't like the look or extra drag of the roof top A/C or awning. With more Florida time now looming in our future; we decided it might come in handy and went with it. Everything in life is a tradeoff.

As an aside, I remember towing our sailboat all over the midwest with our little S15 GMC Jimmy. I don't remember the total weight, but the keel was filled with concrete and weighed 1,200 lbs alone. The dealer helped me hook up to my bumper hitch, and told me "You may want to get a frame hitch sometime down the road." I did when I noticed the bumper started to sag! I don't think trailer brakes were an option. Never wore a bicycle helmet back then either. Sometimes I'm surprised I'm still alive. Ignorance was bliss. Now we have the internet.

Tom

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by TomK

Carol, if I remember correctly, you tow, or used to tow with an Outback? If something happens to our Forester, that will be our next vehicle. I can't say enough about the brand. BTW, our Forester is sage green. We call it our "Sage Coach".

Yes I did tow with an an 07 Outback for almost 6 years. Have actually owned 4 Subaru's over the years so yup I love them. They are outstanding cars for driving in the snow which I do frequently to the Rookies to attend ski races. Wish my 4x4 truck was half as good.

Was very happy with the Outbacks ability to solidly tow in all kinds of weather & think anyone with a 13' trailer would be happy towing with an Outback. The gas milage performance when towing compared to my truck didn't hurt either

[Bob Miller]

Me thinks that the critical point about weight vs frontal area is being missed.

Weight, especially being overweight, is most critical, in somewhat priority order:

1. In emergency handling/braking situations, especially in the rain/snow/high winds.

2. When braking on long downgrades.

3. When considering stress on vehicle components, and last;

4. Effects on economy.

And, at 55 mph, (the towing speed limit in the Golden State) aerodynamics aren't yet that big a deal. At 65 it begins to show, at 75 it's the 800 lb Gorilla in the room. If there is any question about that, compare MPHs at those three speeds. In fact, on newer vehicles with MPG readouts, you can see up to a 50% increase in fuel consumption at 75 vs. 55

[Sam Moore]

We did the rockies, sierras, yosemite, and the pacific coast. The long steep grades were, ah, difficult. I had to pull them slower than the drivers behind wanted to go…The other side of the hill was easier because the subaru's brakes are so good. I have rarely had to stop really hard and fast, but it has happened.
I did replace the radiator during the trip, and that helped a lot. I think the cooling system is marginal, and wish there were a heavier duty radiator available. There was a balance between going too fast up hill and so slow that there was not enough air forced through the radiator. The cool mornings were best for driving in the mountains, we started early and stopped early. We took this rig into several "interesting" campsites, and even went off road near Moab. We used the AC on the downhills, mainly.
We love our Scamp, we love our Subaru, and we love them together.
Sam & Ellyn Moore, Central Virginia

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Sam Moore

I did replace the radiator during the trip, and that helped a lot. I think the cooling system is marginal, and wish there were a heavier duty radiator available.

I think you will find the newer Outbacks (about 2006 onwards) with the higher tow rating actually have a large and better cooling system.

[TomK]

Although I never pulled a Scamp with a Subaru, I was licensed for just about every truck in the Army inventory to include semi's. I think I'll do ok in the hills. I'll take it real easy figure out any limitations as I go. There's a road I know between Sheridan and Cody WY thru the Big Horns that should test the rig pretty well.

Sam it sounds like you had quite an adventure! I appreciate the input and will watch for indications of engine or xmsn overheating. How many days were you gone? I have in-laws in VA. In fact my wife's from there. That's on our short list for places to go.

Tom

[TomK]

Originally Posted by Carol H

I think you will find the newer Outbacks (about 2006 onwards) with the higher tow rating actually have a large and better cooling system.

Carol, I checked with the dealer and they said our xmsn does not need a cooler. They said the entire cooling system in the 2011 Forester should have no problem with towing if we stuck to the limitations in the manual. We will. Thx!

Tom

[Sam Moore]

Tom,
We skipped the Bighorns and went north out of Yellowstone, having heard about those grades. I don't know how we would have done.
We were away about 35 days, averaged 18 mpg, and would do (most of) it again. This country is huge, beautiful, and much of it is dry and hot. June is a great month for wildflowers everywhere. We took many pics, had the time of our lives, and met several interesting people, including two instances of chancing to camp next to folks that turned out to be friends of friends. Small world.
There is no place like home.
Sam

[TomK]

Sam,
I was right. You did have a great time. I hope to do the same thing you just did. Hitch the Scamp to the Subie and go for it! The country out west is awesome. I fell in love with Wyoming while hunting mulies and motor goats. (Mule Deer and Pronghorn Antelope for non-hunters). My wife and I spent 10 days there years ago, and she was as impressed as I was. I also never found a desert I didn't like either, from the Mojave and Chihuahuan to the Sahara. That surprised me, after growing up in MI. If I had to pick a favorite place, it would be somewhere I haven't been yet. I'll let you know when I get there. It's all about the quest.

Tom

[Mike Magee]

Space-wise you certainly could sleep in the van. The drawbacks include air movement (not so many opening windows, and no screens to keep out bugs), no bathroom on board, and no coffeepot within 2 steps of the bed.

I tried camping out of a Windstar van one summer, about 15 years ago. It wasn't fun.

However, if you ever needed to leave the Scamp off at a repair shop for a day and night, at least you have an affordable backup sleeping option!