Too much tongue weight - trailer frame/coupler issues?

[Joe & Cherie]

Nice info! This thread has been a great help to me and hopefully others too! My frame is 4" but it is not stamped. It's exactly like the bottom picture. Exterior sharp corners, internal radii, and tapered top and bottom. It's exactly like the yellow cross section. I need to take a few pics of the coupler welded on just for info. I do plan check scale soon to!

[Joe Romas]

Mike.
I don't know what the "4" in C-4 represents but I suspect it's 4 inches but as Dave B says Casita uses 3" tall and is NOT the formed thin steel.

Here's how I strengthened my frame and stopped the flexing visible in my rear view mirror driving down the road and the door frame flexing when parked..
I also lowered the propane tanks about an inch and they sit on a substantial mount between the left and right frame members.

Joe

[Civilguy]

Joe,

That's impressive, it looks like you are on the "safe to drive" list too!

"C" is a designation for a standard steel channel. Yes, the first number that follows is the height in inches and the second (following the "x") is the weight in pounds per foot.

Just to spice it up a bit, what we call commonly "I" beams are designated as "S" or "W" for their standard or wide flanges.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/a...ls-d_1321.html

[k0wtz]

yes that is pretty nice work who would have thought!!

bob

[Joe & Cherie]

Here's a few pics. He welded 3" on top of the 4" the welded the coupler to the 3" and to the top of the 4"

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by JWScarab

IDK why I worry about all this stuff.....ask my wife, I drive her nuts!

Originally Posted by JWScarab

Here's a few pics. He welded 3" on top of the 4" the welded the coupler to the 3" and to the top of the 4"

Looking at those pictures, I don't know why you worry either. Please extend my sympathies to your wife, Joe. She must be a real saint!

Yeah, get yourself a scale or get to a scale. The bathroom scale trick is online. There's nothing like knowing what the numbers really are when you have been wondering.

http://hildstrom.com/projects/tonguescale/

And, in all seriousness, it is a good idea to pay close attention to the condition of our frames and their welds. I think a careful inspection "periodically" is a good thing to do. Steel is ductile. It will bend and stretch before it fails. But, there's nothing like keeping on top of this stuff before it does.

So, I hope you don't mind me giving you a little ribbing here!

And now, let's have a bang-up thread on what "periodically" means! Every year? Every tow? We are going to have fun with this one!

[redbarron55]

I can't speak about any other than Scamp, but in my humble opinion the sideways tubing under the door flexes and concentrates the stress on the opposite bend and this is where many frames crack.
Th bracing forward of the tubing.
Inspect these areas carefully at the door also tend to crack where they weld to that under door tubing

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by JWScarab

So today looked closer lol. 5000lbs trailer weight / 700 lbs tongue load. So my frame is 4" C channel. It is bent in a curve as it exits the body and angles to the ball, so there are no welds - just a gentle bend. Frame is not cut entire length. I can only assume its more then robust enough.

Tires are 2540 lbs D load each, up to 65psi. Wheels 80psi, and valves stems 100psi. Axle 3500.

Thanks again!

Joe, just curious, but you listed the weight of your eggcamper as 5,000 lbs, on a 3500 lb axle? I thought eggcampers only had 2500 lb axles when I was researching them, was yours upgraded?

[Joe & Cherie]

I don't mind the ribbing Mike!! Cherie is a sweetheart, puts up with me well lol. Had I read my tongue and crawled under it earlier instead of sitting in my recliner, I may not have started the post.....lol. I'd guess once a year inspection would be ok for a casual long weekender like us! Make more for those who go go go?

As for weight of 5000 I was referring to the coupler rating stamped on it. I think the actual egg weight is approx 2000 dry. As for the axle I remember when buying the lift kit it was a Dexter #10. I had to determine that to get the correct kit. It is 5x4.5. I thought the #10 was a 3500 lb but I may be mistaken. Great something else to worry about lol just kidding. I'll do some research to tell what physical difference are between #9 and #10......

[k0wtz]

every watched people load heavy equipment on trailers they put the tracks down but no reinforcement under the back end of the trailer. Up comes the big backhoe, tractor or other heavy stuff.

I wonder how those trailers take it?

bob

[Jon in AZ]

A #10 axle is rated up to 3500# but can be de-rated for a particular application by shortening the rubber cords. A #9 has a maximum rating of 2200#, but again, may be de-rated. I'm sure an EggCamper uses the #10, but it may or may not have the full 3500# rating.

There should be a sticker or plate on the trailer somewhere with the axle rating as spec'd by EggCamper.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

I can't speak about any other than Scamp, but in my humble opinion the sideways tubing under the door flexes and concentrates the stress on the opposite bend and this is where many frames crack.
Th bracing forward of the tubing.
Inspect these areas carefully at the door also tend to crack where they weld to that under door tubing

In my somewhat less humble opinion,I disagree with your conclusions. While damage could happen to any trailer under the right conditions it is incorrect to say many frames crack or that there is any designed in tendency to crack on the Scamp frame.
I have seen a few cracked frames and most commonly on the roadside aft of the tongue(as you say). In almost every case there was extensive rust around the door framing which failed first. these trailers were all early trailers of various makes made decades ago before Scamp made frame and axle upgrades.in response to more amenities.
Plenty of trailers of several makes from the 70s and early 80s experienced frame and tongue cracks due mostly to lighter gauge tubing in an effort to keep the trailers light.
I can think of only one make which has had a documented tendency for frame cracks in recent years resulting in a major recall for several model years.
It wasn't Scamp.

I think it is fair to say that every fiberglass trailer manufacturer still in production builds frames designed and built to withstand the service for which they were intended.
It is still prudent to occasionally inspect anything in which you will allow yourself to be hurdled down the road at more than a mile-a-minute!

The OPs original inquiry is fresh and relevant and explores the question of how much extra is too much extra for the trailer and not the TV.

[redbarron55]

The early Scamp frames were lighter, but the flexing in the unreinforced area in the bend causes the cracking I have seen.
Of course Scamp went to heavier gauge tubing but the geometry is still the same.
The flexing of the tubing although the same size, but laid on it's side allows for more flexing and added stress on the opposite side.
The heavier frames still crack, by the way, and many here have had splayed patches welded on because of this.
Of course this is still my humble opinion
I have no opinion on other trailers that are built differently, but most have the dropped floor and entry door that means that the section of the frame running under the door is laid sideways and could have the same problems.
On my 1985 Scamp I replaced everything from the door forward with heavier gauge tubing and added reinforcement as well.
The bends were mover to forward of the shell to add room for the front bath and cross members were added as well.
The bends in free space with no reinforcement mean that they are subject to bending from the weight and the pulling fore and aft and the twisting from unequal stiffness from side to side adding a fair amount of stress over time.
In my opinion (Humble though it may be) this is a weak area for these reasons light old style tubing or newer heavier (1/8").
To each his own, but taking a good look won't cost much either way.
As an aside each manufacturer builds units that will lats as long as the warranty and hopefully beyond.
Also as an aside there are a LOT of old Scamps out there still going strong, but with also a fair number of welded repairs.
Some have been Reframed also

[k0wtz]

So I guess both of you are suggesting a close look over by getting under your trailer from time to time.

bob

[Joe Romas]

Casita started out with the 13 and 16 foot trailers and later introduced a 17. But all of them seem to use the same C-3 channel frame. On my 99 17' they boxed in the area by where the bend is but my experience is the flexing takes place behind that area and in under and behind the door.

Maybe they should have boxed in the area from the axle forward.
I added my frame support from the hitch to the 1/8" thick square piece between the axle and frame.

How long did they expect these trailers to last, mine is 18 years old

Joe

[floyd]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

The early Scamp frames were lighter, but the flexing in the unreinforced area in the bend causes the cracking I have seen.
Of course Scamp went to heavier gauge tubing but the geometry is still the same.
The flexing of the tubing although the same size, but laid on it's side allows for more flexing and added stress on the opposite side.
The heavier frames still crack, by the way, and many here have had splayed patches welded on because of this.
Of course this is still my humble opinion
I have no opinion on other trailers that are built differently, but most have the dropped floor and entry door that means that the section of the frame running under the door is laid sideways and could have the same problems.
On my 1985 Scamp I replaced everything from the door forward with heavier gauge tubing and added reinforcement as well.
The bends were mover to forward of the shell to add room for the front bath and cross members were added as well.
The bends in free space with no reinforcement mean that they are subject to bending from the weight and the pulling fore and aft and the twisting from unequal stiffness from side to side adding a fair amount of stress over time.
In my opinion (Humble though it may be) this is a weak area for these reasons light old style tubing or newer heavier (1/8").
To each his own, but taking a good look won't cost much either way.
As an aside each manufacturer builds units that will lats as long as the warranty and hopefully beyond.
Also as an aside there are a LOT of old Scamps out there still going strong, but with also a fair number of welded repairs.
Some have been Reframed also

Notice we agree on the inspection aspect on the Trailer and the TV!
I don't buy the flex on a good frame as a cause of any tendency although I agree that anything can break with the right inducement.
Your opinion seems thoughtful and has some logic, I just don't concur with your conclusion... That's all good!

[Radar1]

I suspect that having a really heavy tongue weight could add to any flexing of the frame between the ball and axle and might contribute to any frame stress issues that are being mentioned. Think of your frame like a ladder suspended at two ends (tow ball and axle), if a person was to jump up and down on that ladder, would it be more inclined to break under the weight of a 200 lb person, or a 400 lb person?

[Joe & Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

A #10 axle is rated up to 3500# but can be de-rated for a particular application by shortening the rubber cords. A #9 has a maximum rating of 2200#, but again, may be de-rated. I'm sure an EggCamper uses the #10, but it may or may not have the full 3500# rating.

There should be a sticker or plate on the trailer somewhere with the axle rating as spec'd by EggCamper.

Good info on the #10! Now I'm on a quest to find my "real" #10 defrayed axle limit. I crawled all over that axle short of pulling the wheels and I didn't see a stamp on it. I bet it is there somewhere!!

On the sticker there is no mention of axle spec but it does have a 2500 gvwr. I personally think it's not best to push limits by I'd bet that 2500 is more of a manufacture cover your butt limit, and not what it is engineered for and really could handle. It also had a 250lb max tongue weight "sticker" placed by eggcamper but we determined it's built with a rather hefty frame and coupler is 700 max tongue weight.

I'll keep looking to determine the actual #10 rating! And I'm guessing that's my real gvwr, not that I'm planning on loading it up anymore anyway. Just fun to know this stuff!!

[k0wtz]

Joe my scamper is 22 years old!!

[redbarron55]

When I reaxled my 16' (heavy) Scamp I had Flexiride make my axle 3000 lb an the 3500 lb unit.
That was to improve the ride and keep the heavier duty bits.
If you go for an axle stiffer than you need you will beat the devil out of the trailer.
My much modified Scamp weighs in at 2850 or so.