Re-installing side windows in a Scamp?

[artrageous]

Okay, I'm totally confused now.... We've removed one of our side windows due to it leaking and hope to start the process of getting it put back in this weekend.

Rivets??? WHERE???

There were screws on the inside of the window frame and nothing visible on the outside--no rivets, screws or anything.

The trailer is a 16 ft. model from 1995 (never had anything in it, apparently it was sold as a shell) and when we got the window out, a sticker on it showed the window was manufactured in 1993. (Slide type window with screen.)

[Borrego Dave]

Sharon if you have screws in your windows, use the screws to reinstall them, not rivets.

[Eddie Longest]

Sharon
You seem to have the black frame radius windows. Most are mounted with an inside trim ring and screws. On the early 84> Scamps they may have installed several rivets to help hold the windows in. In later Scamps no rivets were used in those frames.
Bill
Scamp used 9/64 pop rivets to hold the jalose windows to the shell. They did sell them several years ago. I did like you and ordered a bulk order of 5/32 rivets. With the window it tightens thing up and protects the shell if you use back up washers with your rivets. They sell specific sized aluminum back up washers but you can subistute stainless flat washers for back ups. When attaching to fiberglass alone if possible I try to use back up washers if possible.
Eddie

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Eddie Longest

Sharon
You seem to have the black frame radius windows. Most are mounted with an inside trim ring and screws. On the early 84> Scamps they may have installed several rivets to help hold the windows in. In later Scamps no rivets were used in those frames.
Bill
Scamp used 9/64 pop rivets to hold the jalose windows to the shell. They did sell them several years ago. I did like you and ordered a bulk order of 5/32 rivets. With the window it tightens thing up and protects the shell if you use back up washers with your rivets. They sell specific sized aluminum back up washers but you can subistute stainless flat washers for back ups. When attaching to fiberglass alone if possible I try to use back up washers if possible.
Eddie

Thanks Eddie! I saw some flat aluminum washers in ACE's Rivet Section yesterday when I was buying 1/8" rivets. (for the curtain rod holders).

Yesterday,I also measured the thickness of my Scamp's shell in two places. It appeared to be 1/4" thick. I say "appeared" because my method of measurement wasn't all that great. I stuck a rivet into the hole and marked the exposed end with fine tipped felt pen.

I also got an air-powered rivet gun from a friend. It will be interesting to see how much damage I will do while learing how to use it! For one thing the gun doesn't set the rivet when a lever is pulled. It set the rivet when the lever is released!

I once unknowingly bought a shotgun with a release-trigger! I got quite a scare the first time I pulled the trigger...and it didn't fire...until I released the trigger!

Oh well...back to windows....

Bill

[RogerDat]

Well Bill maybe someone was "discovering" a release trigger shotgun near your scamp. Would explain the leaks.

The door seals (original) are a foam with adhesive back. Much like the stuff sold for around window air conditioners in big box lumber stores. 1/2 x 1/2 for sides and top, 3/4 deep for the bottom edge. The D seal is a rubber bulb type and tends to seal the sides & top better and last longer.

I almost hate to ask, you do have the snap caps for the rivets right? My 77 did not come with them but they are almost essential for getting a seal.

[RogerDat]

As Eddie points out Scamp used different windows attached in different ways over the years.

The jalousie style windows for awhile, those are the ones you sometimes see on older sun porches that have slats that crank up. The used windows that hinged at the top and opened at the bottom with a prop to hold them open. These two types just have an aluminum frame with a lip that gets riveted to the shell from the outside. Later models they used slider windows that are more like modern campers with a trim ring and rubber seal, and screws

One of the side effects of being in business for so many decades and having original production still in use is all the prior equipment is still out there and in use and being repaired. You don't want to know about my furnace, let us just say if furnace was a US citizen it is old enough to be elected president.

Poor Bills trailer is so old that rodents and spiders check it out and debate moving into something that old.

But man it is a blast to get it all fixed up and looking spiffy, have yet to camp without folks coming by to check it out. Want to hug the folks that ask is it new. Well maybe not the ones with beards. Oh what the heck them too.

[stevebaz]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

Carol H. turned me on to tapping the shaft out and trimming the sleeve down with a fine toothed hacksaw if the rivet needs a shorter grip range. Just slip the shaft back in after the tube is trimmed.

An easier way to trim aluminium rivets is to tap out the pin. turn the pin around and slip it partially in just so the rod comes out the other side. Now use a wire stripper with stripper holes and choose the stripper hole closest to the rod size. Use the stripper to cut the rivet shaft without cutting the rivet pin. You will get a nice clean cut with little distortion and you don't cut the pin. Now pull the shaft and turn it around and put it back inside the rivet the right way and rivet away with the right length rivet.

below wire stripper I use which makes this job easy and quick.

Klein Tools Kurve Wire Stripper/Cutter-11055 - The Home Depot

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by artrageous

Okay, I'm totally confused now.... We've removed one of our side windows due to it leaking and hope to start the process of getting it put back in this weekend.

Rivets??? WHERE???

There were screws on the inside of the window frame and nothing visible on the outside--no rivets, screws or anything.

The trailer is a 16 ft. model from 1995 (never had anything in it, apparently it was sold as a shell) and when we got the window out, a sticker on it showed the window was manufactured in 1993. (Slide type window with screen.)

No Rivets on the windows of models of the 90's. Simple clean up the outside area of the window frame and trailer put some new butyl tape on the underside of the outside part of the window frame, stick it back onto the trailer and screw it all back into place from the inside just as you did to remove it. Then trim away any of the excess butyl tape that seeped out from under the frame. All done. Simple.

[Carol H]

Thanks for sharing that tip Steve, it does sound easier than my approach. Just happen to have the correct tool as well!!

As they say you learn something new here every day!

Originally Posted by stevebaz

An easier way to trim aluminium rivets is to tap out the pin. turn the pin around and slip it partially in just so the rod comes out the other side. Now use a wire stripper with stripper holes and choose the stripper hole closest to the rod size. Use the stripper to cut the rivet shaft without cutting the rivet pin. You will get a nice clean cut with little distortion and you don't cut the pin. Now pull the shaft and turn it around and put it back inside the rivet the right way and rivet away with the right length rivet.

below wire stripper I use which makes this job easy and quick.

Klein Tools Kurve Wire Stripper/Cutter-11055 - The Home Depot

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Carol H

No Rivets on the windows of models of the 90's. Simple clean up the outside area of the window frame and trailer put some new butyl tape on the underside of the outside part of the window frame, stick it back onto the trailer and screw it all back into place from the inside just as you did to remove it. Then trim away any of the excess butyl tape that seeped out from under the frame. All done. Simple.

OR, some of the late 1980s models (windows are radius). None of the windows of my 1988 Scamp are riveted. They all uses screws (inside for the clamp ring), or in the case of the door window... screws from the outside through the door to the clamp ring.

Interesting the different hardware used over the years to accomplish the same thing... a leak-proof window.

[Bill Nolen]

Progress at last! Well, sorta...

The rivets I ordered arrived this evening, so tomorrow I will start the progress of drilling off the heads of the existing rivets, punching out the old rivet stems, and hoping I can find the stem stubs later, cleaning off the old butyl tape, then adding new butyl tape, re-install the windows, and hope that the air-powered rivet gun works the way it should!

I haven't even started...but, already I hate the guy or gal that invented revets...and that the Scamp Mfg. Co. ever learned about them, and used them!

My dear, long suffering wife, told me to quit whining, and either get to work on the trailer or sell it, as she was tired of my complaining!

WELL!

Bill

[Donna D.]

Sweat equity Bill! Your wife will love it when you're done. It's your sweat, her happy dance

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Sweat equity Bill! Your wife will love it when you're done. It's your sweat, her happy dance

Ha! Donna D, for my future happness, i sure hope she likes the finished project!

As my dear old Grandmother told me: "Son, a happy wife makes you a happy home!".

Bill

[Bill Nolen]

I started the replacement and re-sealing of my windows today.

To say it was an interesting day would be a understatement. But, I'll provide details and photos in the Modification Forum when I'm finished.

However, I do want to correct a statement I made in an early post.

I stated that the thickness of my 1978 Scamp 13 shell fiberglass was 1/4-inch at the windows.

THAT IS NOT TRUE!

THE THICKNESS OF THE FIBERGLASS AT THE WINDOW OPENING IS ONLY !/8-INCH!

I have owned and worked on several fiberglass boats, and never have I seen such thin, and non-supported, fiberglass at a high stress area such as a window opening!

Bill

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

I started the replacement and re-sealing of my windows today.

THE THICKNESS OF THE FIBERGLASS AT THE WINDOW OPENING IS ONLY !/8-INCH!

I have owned and worked on several fiberglass boats, and never have I seen such thin, and non-supported, fiberglass at a high stress area such as a window opening!

Bill

On the plus side Bill.....is isn't below the water line

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Borrego Dave

On the plus side Bill.....is isn't below the water line

Ha! Dave, you are right!

I've got to quit being so judgmental about the little Scamp! I knew it was a light weight trailer, that needed a LOT of work, when I bought it.

I guess I want it to turn into a Silk Purse while it's still in it's Pig's Ear stage!

Bill

[RogerDat]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

Ha! Dave, you are right!

I've got to quit being so judgmental about the little Scamp! I knew it was a light weight trailer, that needed a LOT of work, when I bought it.

I guess I want it to turn into a Silk Purse while it's still in it's Pig's Ear stage!

Bill

A mans dreams should exceed his grasp.... if nothing else it keeps one motivated. And gives you (us) something to complain about that DW know she does not have to really care about.

Or as Mark Twain said "few fleas are good for a dog, keeps him from brooding on being a dog". could be originally by Edward Noyes Westcott but certainly applies to project trailers. Who has the time to worry about getting grey hair? I have rivets to trim!

[Bill Nolen]

Because i made a BIG mistake about the thickness of my 1978 Scamp's shell thickness at the side windows, the rivets I ordered were/are too long to be used. i had no desire to trim 52 rivets!

I also didn't wish to wait for another week to receive new rivets.

So I went to Plan B...screws with a wood frame inside the shell. Very simple, and I believe...er...I hope it will be leak proof!

One window is re-installed, and I'm starting on the second window.

My guess is that Plan B is taking three times the time to re-install a window than if a person used rivets...if a person uses a air-powered rivet gun.

Bill

[stevebaz]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

Ha! Dave, you are right!

I've got to quit being so judgmental about the little Scamp! I knew it was a light weight trailer, that needed a LOT of work, when I bought it.

I guess I want it to turn into a Silk Purse while it's still in it's Pig's Ear stage!

Bill

After 37 years your little Scamp has survived the elements with relatively little care. Designed with just enough in mind and it still survives, as do thousands of others in its class. Rates right up there with my Boston Whalers of the same time frame. Stick 3 months of work in her and let her run another 37 years can't be all that bad. My tents don't last that long in the elements nor did my Pop-up trailer. Not perfect but definitely good enough.

Think how many would be around if everyone stored them inside when not in use and gave them proper year round maintenance.

Weather the storm and stop trying to reinvent the trailer your job would be much easier, be done sooner and this resurrection will just be a long lost memory replaced with new adventures. Best wishes.

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by stevebaz

After 37 years your little Scamp has survived the elements with relatively little care. Designed with just enough in mind and it still survives, as do thousands of others in its class. Rates right up there with my Boston Whalers of the same time frame. Stick 3 months of work in her and let her run another 37 years can't be all that bad. My tents don't last that long in the elements nor did my Pop-up trailer. Not perfect but definitely good enough.

Think how many would be around if everyone stored them inside when not in use and gave them proper year round maintenance.

Weather the storm and stop trying to reinvent the trailer your job would be much easier, be done sooner and this resurrection will just be a long lost memory replaced with new adventures. Best wishes.

Well, dang, Stevebaz, I reread and reread your message...seeking to find some comment that I could take issue with...without any success!

Either I'm getting old, or I happen to agree with you.

However, if you knew me better, you would know that a more positive state of mind wouldn't/couldn't speedup my work habits!

Yet, no doubt my dear wife would most likely be happier if I would quit griping

Best wishes,

Bill