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Old 10-30-2017, 10:35 AM   #21
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Make sure to leave space between roof and bottom of panels for cooling purposes, panels generate considerable heat while absorbibg sunshine.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:43 AM   #22
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I have mine set up to be portable so I can chase the sun. One of the problems I see with roof mounting Solar Panels is that you have to park in the sun. With the portable I can park in the shade.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:43 AM   #23
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My 80 watt panel weighs 22ibs, the feet are wide enough apart so weight is distributed nicely and not concentrated.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:49 AM   #24
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True, being able to adjust panels into the sun is a benefit, and also a pain. I'm very pleased with roof-top install, love watching the gauge hold my battery at 13.7, even when it's raining.!!
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:30 PM   #25
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Nice install, Jim. You chose 36 volt, can I ask what the benefits are for you? That entry port is clever. I like how clean the whole install looks. Can I ask you what the name for those connector plugs you used is? Did you have to buy specific extensions or can you cut those to fit?

I like that fifth wheel trailer. Looks like a great use of space while still being maneuverable.

Thanks.
I went with 36 volts to keep the amperage down to the controller. Probably not a big deal, but easy to do and I could.

The connectors are the industry standard MC4, the panels came with them on, though I did shorter some of them up and installed new ones. Easy to do with the right tools.

We love our 5.0TA, though knew we would, thus why we bought it. With all the modifications I have made, and the ones to come soon, it will be a great fit for us for many years to come. We find it hits that sweet spot giving us everything we need with a bit of luxury thrown in.
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:34 PM   #26
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True, being able to adjust panels into the sun is a benefit, and also a pain. I'm very pleased with roof-top install, love watching the gauge hold my battery at 13.7, even when it's raining.!!
I thought about this when choosing my system. I anticipated needing about 40 watts of solar power. So I bought an oversized 100 watt panel and mounted it on the roof figuring I wouldn't have to worry about sun angles or partial shade. I pretty much ignore it while the sun does its nuclear power thing. That has worked out very well except for one campground in total shade. I had to drag the Scamp a couple of miles away into the sun after 5 days. Even a movable panel would not have helped in this campground. Most of our campgrounds have at least 4-5 hours of sun each day fully charging the battery by early afternoon. And of course any towing tops off the battery very quickly.

The biggest problem so far is in my driveway. A couple of times each Winter I have to brush the snow off the panel to make sure the battery is properly maintained.

Love solar power, john

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Old 10-30-2017, 02:36 PM   #27
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There is a way to add a backing block against a ceiling for the screws of mounting brackets to grip into. I have done this to my Campster.

In my instance I cut a round disc of high quality marine plywood. Then trimmed out the area on the ceiling covering. I attached it directly to the shell using thickened epoxy holding it in place while the epoxy cured with two sticks clamped to each other, the clamp allows for adjusting pressure. One end was against the floor and the other pushed against the backer plate. After installation on the interior side I put a nice looking LED Light over the backer plate. If you don't want to wire in a light just use a battery powered fixture such as a Tap light. Always nice to have a battery operated light overhead for an alternative source of illumination. This makes it look like an intentional installation and hides the actual purpose of the backer plates.
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Old 10-30-2017, 03:19 PM   #28
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That's a neat idea. A through bolt with a lamp fixture to hide the hardware. Thanks.
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Old 10-30-2017, 09:19 PM   #29
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PV Panels on a Big Foot

Here is how I installed PV panels on my Casita 17 ft.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:53 AM   #30
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Franswa is on it... once you start down this path the itch to keep improving it is irresistible.

On the one hand, some people look to simply put on a panel and forget about it - to add some assistance or a bit more time out of the battery, but not relying on it for anything substantial.

On the other hand, some people find the solar experiment to be an interesting hobby that fits hand and hand with the camping. Like running a 12v fridge off of batteries, etc. (just teasing you here, I saw your other thread). In this situation, building with flexibility for future alteration makes a good amount of sense.

Some random stuff I've learned:

Panels are all different shapes and sizes. Even an aluminum framed panel of 100 watts may vary in dimensions a bit from manufacturer to manufacturer. So if holes are drilled for a specific panel, they may need to be filled and re-drilled if the panel is replaced or moved. Not a big deal, just have the head ready for the possibility. I've wondered about a frame that is wider than needed, with crossbars that could accommodate variations in size.

Panels are all different watts, volts and amps. Even 100 watt panels, when from different manufacturers, will have different volts and amps. Look at the specs in the descriptions. The reason this is of interest is that the combination of panels will be subject to the weakest link among them. I think its that they will all run at the lowest voltage panel among them. This results in some lost power because the stronger panels don't run as hard in the group as they could have if matched to equals. The ultimate solution for mismatching seems to be a separate charge controller for each panel or each matched set or, simply live with the limitations of mismatching them and be ok with that. The best practice is to have the panels matched not only in watts, but also manufacturer and model so the volts and amps are matched as well.

Batteries are like that too, but that's a different discussion.

Shadows matter. You see Jim's awesome placement of his panels in his pictures. His panels do not run right up against the roof-top appliances, and they are spaced so that it is not likely for an air-conditioning shadow to cross the corner of one of his panels. This is important. Even a tiny shadow on part of a panel drops its output tremendously. Don't know why, just what I've read.

Tilting at different angles at different times of year can have a substantial impact on productivity. Face to face with the sun is best. Rooftop does not lend itself to tilting unless you wanted to get up there to monkey with your frames when you park, and park your rig at the appropriate relationship to the sun.

My last rig was big and I roof-topped it and loved it. I didn't tilt, had a few more panels instead, and didn't have to do anything but get there. You have to get sunny sites though so your rig is in the sun. This time I've got a tiny egg so I'm going with panels I set out when I get there. This will add an ability to find the sun with them too.

Mono is more productive than poly, especially for cloudy days. It's priced accordingly however. I'm in Ohio so I'm going mono this time.

Size matters... when it comes to 12v wires thicker is better. You can Google oodles of wire size charts so the information is plentiful. Its not just fire safety, the larger wires have less resistance, so they loose much less energy to heat, so more ends up in your battery. The sizes are numbered backwards... bigger wires have smaller numbers because they have smaller resistance. Think at least 10 gauge thick for a rooftop system. You can add thicker wires too for the longer runs (like 8 or whatever). Its like water flowing in a pipe. The pipe opens up for a bit along the way and looses less heat at least during that portion. Always fuse it for the smallest wire in the run. Lots of charts on that too. 30 amp for 10 gauge, 20 amp for 12 gauge, etc. (Check that though I'm just some fool typing on the internet).

Length matters... when it comes to 12v wires shorter is better. 12v hates distance. Route and re-route the system in the mind over and over to come up with the shortest possible wire runs. Less distance is less loss to heat is more electrons making it home to the battery.

Size your solar charge controller for amps. Use the short circuit amp specification x 1.25 = minimum size controller. Soooo... four 100 watt panels each with a short circuit amp of 5.7 would be like this... 5.7 x 4 x 1.25 = 28.5 amps. So basically a 30 amp controller is called for because they come in round numbers. (Check that though I'm just some fool typing on the internet).

Size your solar charge controller for voltage. A panel sold as a 100 watt 12v panel may vary in open circuit voltage (Voc) from 16 to 24 volts, or whatever, depending on manufacturer. Just check the open circuit voltage on the panel specs and the maximum voltage spec of the charge controller. 12v is "nominal" voltage that gets you into the ball park of what works together but look at the details to select your pieces.

MPPT and PWM solar charge controllers work differently. I've always had PWM which needs voltage that is in the ball park (my 30 amp PWM controller has an input maximum of 25 volts so 12v panels with Voc up to 24 are in its ballpark). I've read that MPPT is far superior and allows you to use much higher voltages on the input side but I don't know enough about it other than I would be researching MPPT if I was buying a charge controller right now.

Edit- Weight matters for fiberglass eggs. A 100 watt aluminum framed panel is about 23 pounds. A 100 watt flexible panel is about 8 pounds. I think the consensus is that the aluminum panels are more physically robust, however, in terms of the glass or whatever, and in using feet to stand them off the roof a bit so heat is dissipated better. I'm thinking flexible this time around (like Jim's) for weight savings.

Have fun!!!
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:37 AM   #31
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Nik, if you want to know more than you thought you could about solar on an RV, you can go to this blog:
https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/...ging-puzzle-2/

I've read through it 1/2 dozen times and I still learn something new each time.
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Old 10-31-2017, 11:22 AM   #32
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Thanks Buggeee and Alex.

A good lesson of Bunggeee's primer - make sure you can grow a system without running into bottlenecks and weak links.

Originally I thought about splurging and going with lots of panels, so as to worry less about shade, but then I saw the expense! And also I'm planning to install a huge skylight (3' x 18") and suddenly things get crowded up there.

I want to learn first and build the system for my specific needs. I'm going to start with one portable panel on a tether. Might even buy a used one cheap which I can sell later if it's not compatible with the final-grown system.

I always park the rig for a good view and often in shade. And so far I use very little power. One panel well placed might be enough.

It does occur to me that a free standing panel could be tempting for a thief and thus could tie you to staying in camp on the sunniest days! Maybe I'll build a system to 'hide it' locked to the roof when need be. Always some trade off!
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Old 10-31-2017, 11:30 AM   #33
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Nik, you hit the nail on the head: Learn first and build a system to suit your needs. I am in the experimental stage so I bought a relatively inexpensive solar controller ($70) and got both of my panels on sale($150 for one, $135 for the other). I lucked out with my batteries since I essentially got 2 for the price of one. I figure once I am comfortable, I will invest in a better controller and battery management system. I'm looking at charging batteries for electric planes, running a 12 volt fridge, etc so my system will probably be bigger than what you are looking at.
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Old 11-27-2017, 12:24 PM   #34
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if you contact Bigfoot they may be able to send you the blue print of the roof which will have the location of any built in blocking like they put in for the ladder and roof racks, solar etc. I asked them for a blueprint on my previous 2005 17.5 gaucho to find a place for skylight and they sent it to me via email.
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Old 11-28-2017, 09:09 AM   #35
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.....Edit- Weight matters for fiberglass eggs. A 100 watt aluminum framed panel is about 23 pounds. A 100 watt flexible panel is about 8 pounds...
My flexible 100 watt solar panels have arrived. They only weigh about 4 and a half pounds each.
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Old 12-09-2017, 01:12 AM   #36
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Jim,
How are the solar panels holding up? Do they heat up the roof of your trailer noticeably? Do you have any second thoughts about going with the tape-down system. I'm considering something similar for my 17-B.
Rick Gibbons
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:56 AM   #37
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Mine are pop riveted on, the solar panel is mounted six inches above the roof. That gives plenty of air circulation and the solar panel becomes a shade for the roof.

The solar panels have been mounted for eight years now. The only problem I have had is the controller, replaced that last year.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:38 AM   #38
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Jim,
How are the solar panels holding up? Do they heat up the roof of your trailer noticeably? Do you have any second thoughts about going with the tape-down system. I'm considering something similar for my 17-B.
Rick Gibbons
No problem at all this past summer, though I was never in really hot weather. Might be headed to Arizona and area this January/February and will see there. The tape is holding up fine. My other option was to use a caulking like ProFlex, but though not real easy, the tape is considerably easier to remove if even wanted.
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:45 AM   #39
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While looking over solar literature for a couple of decades or more I have seen lots of talk of tilting mounts, portable panels, ideal wire gauge and length, and cell chemistry. Folks get pretty passionate on these subjects. Oh bother.

As a believer in the KISS principle in my solar system I utilized the Scamp supplied #12 romex that runs from the converter and up across the ceiling for the air conditioner I don't have. Then I installed a fixed flat 100 watt panel that is more than double in output of my expected needs. So the tilt of my panel is seldom ideal and shading can be a problem. Yet it keeps my battery topped off 99% of the time. And I just forget about it, other than brushing off the snow a couple of times during our Wisconsin Winter.



May the power of solar be with you, john

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Old 12-09-2017, 05:42 PM   #40
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consideration....

your comment makes me think that there should be another consideration to the usual three number solar equation that has to be worked on when designing/building someone's "optimum" system.....namely "tilt or no tilt"....given the HUGE difference in production between panels angled exactly to the sun's rays and those on the flat

Panels // Storage // Daily Use // Tilt or no tilt

by "optimum" I mean the least expensive way to cover one's 24hour power use without running the battery(ies) down below 12.2 or even better 12.4....

as the price of panels is continuously going down and we generally have quite a sizable amount of flat space on our roofs....I can see a time, possibly in the not distant future, where it might make sense to just cover the whole roof in panels (on the flat) and be done with it...

one could even park in a shady spot at the end of the day if there had been enough power production while driving there...

interesting thread.
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