Anyone "X-Ray" a Fiberstream?

[Ed Harris]

Hi All,
I just had the new Fiberstream follow me home from Arizona and I have to say,I really like this new rig.

I will probably remove and build all new cabinets in it and maybe even alter the layout but I don't really have time to do it right now.
I also don't want it torn apart that far during the season.

Soooooo what I am trying to figure out is.......How the heck is the interior shell attached?????

On mine the inside walls appear to be a thin Luan panel and it does contour to the curves of the trailer. There is about a 3/4" space tween the outer fiberglass and the luan and there is just soft foam sheeting inside there I think?
What I can not figure out is how the luan is connected to the trailer above the floor?

At the floor level there are blocks of wood screwed to the floor and the luan is then tacked or screwed to them. Are there more blocks glued,glassed or something up higher to hold the inside walls in place? Then what about the ceiling?

There is certainly a way for me to find all this out but I am just not ready to go there just yet but I will if it comes to it.

I am afraid the entire insides are just attached to each other sort making a big island floating inside the fiberglass held together internally but not really attached.

I don't want to attach though the fiberglass any more than I have to but I also am not going to install anything new that is not strong and safe.

Any one in the know? How bout theory? I will even take wild conjecture?

Thanks
Ed

[Bob Cupp]

It is help up by what the engineers call FM. That is the abreviation for Fiberglass Magic.

[Brian B-P]

Some Fiber Stream owners have posted reports of their interior modifications involving bunks, which were supported by wood blocks which were bonded (presumably by fiberglass resin or epoxy, and maybe even 'glassed over) to the shell.

The same bonded wood block method is used for the dinette table hinge in many trailers, I believe including my Boler, and my centre ceiling light was definitely done that way. The Escape web site reports that's how their interior is done, to avoid rivets through the shell.

What actually holds the luan paneling? I don't know, but I would guess it's screwed to more of those blocks.

[Benita]

John Lawrence, your seller, Victor Benz and possibly Ellen B. have done the most extensive work on their Fiber Streams. I suspect they are more knowlegeable than the rest of us about the innards of the trailer.

[Ed Harris]

John Lawrence, your seller, Victor Benz and possibly Ellen B. have done the most extensive work on their Fiber Streams. I suspect they are more knowlegeable than the rest of us about the innards of the trailer.

Thanks Benita,
John didn't really delve into the wall too much when doing the mods to the bunks.

He too was not certain of what is holding them in and though he did paper them there are spots where there seems to be no backing at all. In fact some of the trim is screwed seemingly to just the luan so that they both sort of flop around if you push against them.

I am hoping Victor will chime in regarding this as he must have removed a lot of the walls to do his mods.

I do have a question for you too.....what type of paint did you use on the bathroom walls? Also was the toilet half of the bath wood walled and the shower raw glass? or was the entire bath fiberglass when you got it?

Thanks
Ed

[Ed Harris]

Some Fiber Stream owners have posted reports of their interior modifications involving bunks, which were supported by wood blocks which were bonded (presumably by fiberglass resin or epoxy, and maybe even 'glassed over) to the shell.

The same bonded wood block method is used for the dinette table hinge in many trailers, I believe including my Boler, and my centre ceiling light was definitely done that way. The Escape web site reports that's how their interior is done, to avoid rivets through the shell.

What actually holds the luan paneling? I don't know, but I would guess it's screwed to more of those blocks.

Brian
I suspect that this is the method used but I can not see evidence of it without some surgery.
I am just trying to get some confirmation before "going in".

Thanks
Ed

[Ed Harris]

It is help up by what the engineers call FM. That is the abreviation for Fiberglass Magic.

Bob
I thought it was the Military that used that terminology? Specifically the Air Force?

I understand there is an experimental program they refer to as "Pure FM" but your definition is slightly different than theirs?

Go Figure?

[Frederick L. Simson]

Some Fiber Stream owners have posted reports ... involving [b]bunks, which were supported by [b]wood blocks which were bonded ... to the shell.

This is how the furniture is attached in areas where there are no through-hull screws. These blocks are minimal in my Fiber Stream, though. One long strip for [b]each bunk along the side wall. No support whatsoever in any curved corner. The [b]kitchen counter has a small block bonded to the shell in mid-span between the transverse walls; I presume to support the weight of the stove in the long (4') span of the counter.

Even though my Fiber Stream has no interior paneling covering the shell walls, my [b]conjecture is that your insulation substance may be glued to the fiberglass shell, probably with construction adhesive applied with a caulking gun. The paneling would also be glued to the insulation in the same manner. These surfaces have no structural support role, and would have been installed last, after all walls and cabinets were attached with screws through the hull.

I used to live in, and repair/remodel '60s and '70s vintage mobile homes (admittedely of "Stickie" construction) and this was the method of installing the "Tile Board" shower walls above their bath tubs. I doubt the manufacturer of Fiber Stream did it any differently. Removal of this material usually meant it's total destruction, requiring new replacement materials for everything the construction adhesive touched.

I thought it was the Military that used that terminology? Specifically the Air Force?

Funny, I thought that was a NAVY term.

[Ed Harris]

Thanks Fred for taking a shot at this.

The insulation I have is just thin soft foam and can not be glued in nor glued to really.
I think you are correct that there must be blocks somehow attached to the inside of the fiberglass shell and then what little fastening is to them.

Every thing interior seems to "Float" somewhat inside the shell except the counter and cabinets of the Kitchen area,The Bath and the closet. There is also thin plastic bumper tape? between most mating surfaces that I presume provides some shock absorbing action as the trailer moves down th road and flexes some.

I want to make sure that anything I do that enhances cosmetics also enhances the structure if possible.
I suppose I could use construction adhesive to lay in blocking where I need it for any improvements that I make.Given enough time to setup that stuff adheres well to almost anything.

I also need to do work in the bathroom which the former owner never/rarely used and it is a little scary. I plan on putting a new fiberglass panel on the wall with the kitchen and then painting the raw fiberglass. What I am dying to know is what the shower curtain must look like to work in there?

Thanks
Ed

[Brian B-P]

...The insulation I have is just thin soft foam and can not be glued in...

The foam lining in most trailers seems to be glued in; the soft open-cell plastic foam in my Boler (not the usual foam-rubber Ensolite) is definitely glued on; for my repair work I used 3M Super 90 spray adhesive to reattach it.

...I suppose I could use construction adhesive to lay in blocking where I need it for any improvements that I make.Given enough time to setup that stuff adheres well to almost anything...

The plywood block for my ceiling light fixture had come off of the fiberglass (it looks like the factory put it on with resin or epoxy), and previous owners had injected various junk through holes in the foam/vinyl lining material to glue it back in place; however, by the time I got it the block and light were suspended by the lining and wiring. It was a mess to clean up and the lining in that area was unsalvageable.

The glues which did not work appeared to be silicone sealant (no surprise) and construction adhesive. I think the construction adhesive failed because it wasn't put in the right place, the block wasn't clamped in place for curing, and it was probably the wrong type. It was difficult to remove.

I checked the labels on the various tubes of construction adhesive and found one which was specifically intended to bond plastics to wood, normally for shower wall installation; the information is also available from LePage.

Originally posted by LePage Products FAQ
[b]Are all PL Construction adhesives the same?

No, the PL Construction adhesives are all different. Each one is specially formulated and designed for a specific in use. Read all packaging carefully.
...
What adhesive can I use to bond plastic?

Plastic is a very difficult surface to bond. In most cases, consumers are not sure of what type of plastic they’re trying to bond. Polyethylene, polypropylene and nylon are very common plastics used in today's market and they're also very difficult to bond. Styrene, on the other hand, is relatively easy to bond but very susceptible to solvent adhesives. LePage offers PL 700 for the bonding of tubsurround panels that are made of styrene. It is also a suitable adhesive for bonding other types of plastics as well. Small pieces of plastic can be bonded with cyanoacrylate adhesive such as LePage Super Glue. If you are unsure of what adhesive to use, please contact the LePage Technical Service Department for assistance.

As I recall, I used PL 700 for my replacement ceiling block, and propped it in place for curing with a stick to the floor. It has been in place for a couple of years now.

[Frederick L. Simson]

What I am dying to know is what the shower curtain must look like to work in there?

Sorry it took me so long to answer, but I wanted to get pictures...



Here are some shots of my shower curtain open and closed.

[Frederick L. Simson]

The curtain track has these eyelets that slide in a central groove.
The back wall has several pieces of Velcro glued in place.

[Frederick L. Simson]

The curtain itself is made out of a plain cotton/polyester blend material, and is shaped to follow the curve of the trailer. There are 6 tiny grommets in the hem of the curtain. I use small "keyrings" as curtain rings. There are also matching Velcro pieces sewn onto the curtain.

The hard "hook" part of the Velcro is glued to the wall, and the soft "loop" part is sewn onto the curtain.

I "store" the curtain on the high side, next to the kitchen wall, so the bottom can dry out between uses.

[Benita]

Love the clarity of the photos, Frederick. Must be a new camera, hmmmm?

[Ed Harris]

Fred,
Thanks for the pics,they tell the story.
Looks like I will need to learn some sewing sooner than I thought.

I am thinking of making the curtain and I will need some more cushions too. The trailer has just beds and no other cushions and I found it difficult to use the beds as seating without some firm cushions. I just wanted to fall asleep whenever I sat down.....Go Figure?

The bathroom needs a lot of work,mainly cleaning and doing something to the walls.

Benita,When I asked what you used to paint yours I was thinking that yours had the blue bath as I saw that one first on your site.
Now that I think about it,is that the trailer that Victor bought?

I am still wondering what to paint the raw fiberglass with though if anyone has an idea,it is not smooth also.

Anyway it has gotten very cold and rainy here again so all is on hold until warm weather creeps back.

Also Brian,the foam I have tween the walls is so soft and formless that I don't think it could have been attached or glued in any way. I may be wrong but I beleive they just slid it in there as insulation.
I have come to beleive that mostly the interior is held in by the luan being curved into a stronger shape and then it is fastened to the floor and the ceiling thus holding it tight.
I will not know more unless I perform some surgery which is really only a matter of time I think.

There must also be some wood attached to the shell at various spots to attach to and I will find a way to attach more so thianks for the adhesives advice too.

Ed

[Benita]

Benita,When I asked what you used to paint yours I was thinking that yours had the blue bath as I saw that one first on your site.
Now that I think about it,is that the trailer that Victor bought?

I am still wondering what to paint the raw fiberglass with though if anyone has an idea,it is not smooth also.

Hi Ed,

Yep. You are thinking of Victor's trailer. Beth Peery had the trailer painted inside and out. All I remember is the paint she used was hi-gloss and I suspect oil based. My FS bath is a shiny white.

[Victor Benz]

First off, sorry for being so late in responding. Lots of work up in my area these days.

Secondly, Thanks everyone for the kind words on my work in progress.

Ed, to your questions:

The interior walls were 1/8" or even 3/32" luan plywood that had been covered in wallpaper. Undeneath was a thi(1/4") layer of open cell foam, glued rather haphazardly to the wall. When I did the first round of work on my project, I kept the plywood, but replaced the disintegrating foam with a plastic bubble-wrap type product that was sandwiched between two sheets of foil. It was a tmy local Home Depot as chicken coop insulation! It was available in 24" and 36" wide rolls. I did not keep the brand name.

In my trailer, there were thin strips of 1/2" material at the joints between the plywood sheets that held the sheets together. All was a friction fit. I fiberglassed in 1/2" plywood strips in strategic locations to provide solid support for the wall plywood. See my renos at:

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/551123968ABqdPX

I don't know about the ceiling, the cabinets and the ceiling are this year's project. I intend to fiberglass in strips of backer plywood again, and then screw into the new cabinet support from outside the trailer.

With regard to the bathroom wall paint, it is a high gloss marine enamel used on boats. We had the trailer out in rather cool weather last fall, and the bathroom was very cold. I think I will probably put in some form of insulated fibereglass paneling to address that problem, stay tuned.

The Fllor of the bathroom is a fiberglass component. The back wall, behind the toilet, is a plastic cover panel, as is the wall connecting to the kitchen. In my case, they both were in good shape, with no leaks or rot.

Fredrick Simpson's comments on support sticks reflect my experience as well.

With respect to the shower curtain, all I did was hang an I-beam curtain rod that I curved to fit, with an extra long shower curtain, from the tank vent pipe to over the toilet and to the back wall. Works just fine. Pictures will have to wait til the spring melt is done. THe trailer is out there.

Send me an email direcxtly if I can help you with other questions.

Vic

[Ed Harris]

Victor
Thanks for the insights and experience.
I had looked at your pics over and over but can not see any instance of the blocking that you mention.
I know there must be something in there to at least guide the Luann into postion but in my case there does not feel like anything is behhind the seams at all.
Maybe the screws have popped as they must be very short to grab the blocking but not go thru to the shell?

I am wondering also how you managed to remove the foam and replace it with the reflective insulation.
I can not imagine doing this without removing the interior panels first.

In my bathroom the Kitchen wall seems to be Luan with bad wallpaper on it. I am thinking of stripping the paper the best that I can and then cutting a peice of fiberglass panel from Lowes to fit there on top of the Luan. I will just glue it to the Luan panel and trim the edge somehow.

The outside wall where the kitchen meets the side of the bathroom also has a gap I will have to seal so the shower does not go everywhere when on.

I also can not understand just what they were thinking when it was decided to make you crawl over the toilet to get to the shower????
It seems in all of the other eggs it is the other way around.
Also there is less headroom in the corner where the shower is making it even more strange for some reason?

Everything I do in the bathroom as far as upgrading really needs to be thought out a little more as it is all interconnected so I will give it some more thought before charging ahead.
I need to replace the roof vents from the holding tanks but since the locations may change I can not even do that until I figure something out.

Oh what fun!

[BuzzardsBurro]

Ed-

I, Ellen B. have a Burro not a Fiberstream. Wish I could chime in and help you out but I don't know anything about the Fiberstreams except I like them. Good Luck

Ellen B.

[Frederick L. Simson]

Also Brian,the foam I have tween the walls is so soft and formless that I don't think it could have been attached or glued in any way. I may be wrong but I beleive they just slid it in there as insulation.

The interior walls were 1/8" or even 3/32" luan plywood that had been covered in wallpaper. Undeneath was a thin(1/4") layer of open cell foam, [b]glued rather haphazardly to the wall. When I did the first round of work on my project, I kept the plywood...

In my trailer, there were thin strips of 1/2" material at the joints between the plywood sheets that held the sheets together. [b]All was a friction fit.

My opinion is that this foam may not have seemed so "formless" when it was new. Victor's report of the joining material holding the sheets together sounds like the a variation of the construction of those shower stalls I mentioned earlier in this post..
"Fiberglass" Magic, indeed!