Winterizing Scamp for first time.

[Manny]

Howdy folks! Great site! I have learned a lot about little issues and fixes for our newly purchased 16' Scamp deluxe just by reading the posts. I am winterizing it for the first time ever and I had a quick question. Scamp has two videos out for winterizing. Both are similar but one leaves out the part about the hot water faucets. According to the directions that I got from the videos, I drained out the water tanks. I opened up both the hot water and the cold water faucets and drained out the hot water heater. I then added RV antifreeze to the tanks and closed the faucets. I then turned on my water pump and ran the antifreeze through the system. It appears that the water heater sucked up quite a bit of the rv antifreeze. I was able to get a good amount of the antifreeze through all the lines including the toilet, bathroom faucet and shower head. I emptied my grey and black tanks. Here is the big difference in videos, one says to open up the HOT water faucet (which I did and got very little antifreeze) and the other video skipped that part. Did I completely drain my hot water lines by simply draining the water heater? After all was said and done, I went ahead and drained the antifreeze from the heater. Am I done? Thanks for your help. Like I said, this is my first time winterizing and I want to learn to do it myself.

[Jack L]

Does Scamp recommend using RV antifreeze in the water heater?? Everything I have heard says you should not put antifreeze in the water heater. My Bigfoot came with bypass valves to close off the water heater to avoid this. I just drain the water heater, blow out the rest of the system with air and run a little RV antifreeze through the pump. I also pour antifreeze into the drains to fill the P traps. Flushing out the system because large amounts of antifreeze were used can be problematic. I had a friend put several gallons of antifreeze in his domestic water system on his boat (similar to our trailers) and had cherry flavored water for months. I use less than a gallon of antifreeze to winterize my trailer.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Living in Oregon I've never winterized, but then I don't really have things like showers, toilets, and water heaters. Just a 12 gallon fresh water tank and bit of plastic tubing going to the pump/faucet. Since all the plumbing is inside the best solution for the fresh water tank is to keep it almost full, takes a lot of cold to freeze that large of block of water.
I also put a small electric heater inside the trailer and keep the temperature around 50°F. Add a container of Dri-Z-Air, open the ceiling vent a bit and window over the stove and baby is all set for cold weather until we can hook up and head for warmer weather.

[Manny]

Thank you both for your reply and assistance. I did talk to Scamp and they stated that rv antifreeze in the water heater would not hurt anything. Just make sure that I flush it out really good prior to my first trip next year. They do not not want me to drink the kool aid I guess. I was informed that the Deluxe does come with a bypass which I had no idea since I am a newbie to winterizing. I guess that's how you learn.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Manny

Thank you both for your reply and assistance. I did talk to Scamp and they stated that rv antifreeze in the water heater would not hurt anything. .

Just make sure you remember to drain the hot water tank before doing anything! Hot water tanks don't do well in freezing temps. If you purchase a Water Heater tank Rinser from Camping World it will help you flush out any anti freeze that may get in it. It will also flush out any sediment left in the bottom of the tank as well, making it last longer.

Also make sure you run some anti freeze through your water pump - another item that does not do well in freezing temps if water is left in it. Easiest way to do that is pour some anti freeze into an empty fresh water tank and turn on the water pump. Pour some anti freeze down into the shower drain and turn on the floor pump as well if you have one. Also dump a bit down your kitchen sink drain as well.

[Manny]

Thanks Carol. I did empty the water heater after all was said and done. I had the water pump going throughout the whole operation so I am sure I got antifreeze going through it. Thanks for your help.

[Darral T.]

Manny,

Let me give you my way of winterizing my "Standard" Scamp 13'. The only difference will be that probably the 16' will require a bit more RV Anti-Freeze because of it's length. Our tanks should be the same. I'll usually blow out the lines first but with this antifreeze here in Tennessee it's not totally necessary...or hasnt been for me.

FIRST of all, your Scamp SHOULD have a "Bypass" valve on the water heater that would prevent anti freeze from going in there. Here's a photo of mine (close this valve or you will WASTE much RV antifreeze!!):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/503516...posted-public/

Draining the water heater is fine. The damage by freezing water is caused by its expansion. If there is any water left (and there will be in the bottom) there's plenty room for expansion and it wont hurt anything. While you're at it, make sure ALL of your water tanks have been drained before beginning with the antifreeze application!!

The first thing I do after draining and checking my water heater bypass valve is pour 1 gallon of RV antifreeze into my fresh water tank. Then I make sure the pump is on and begin my process.

Next, I go through all my faucets as you said. You dont have to worry about the drains as the RV AF coming out of the faucets will flood the drains. I've never poured any AF down the drains during winterizing. Just make SURE you're cycling some through the front shower drain pump-and of course you will as the antifreeze will start to rise up in the shower pan if the pump's not running!!

I got this idea on how to winterize the "hot" water side from Floyd that posts here. To winterize the "hot" water faucets, you should have the water heater on "bypass" remember? Next, turn on the hot water faucet valve. There will be very little if ANY water comes out. Then, put your thumb over the faucet outlet and hold it there while turning on the "cold" water valve (the water pump should still be on!). This forces the fluid backwards into the hot water lines!! The one at my kitchen sink, you can actually look and see antifreeze that has backed its way into the lines and actually some into the water heater!! To make this a little more efficient, you may want to open the safety valve on your water heater. This will allow the slight pressure from the incoming antifreeze to escape allowing a better flow. (Not totally necessary though).

Also, remember to do this in the bathroom sink. I've done this for the past 5 yrs and never had a problem. We've had temps in Tenn. down to 4-5 degree in the harshest part of winter.

[stevenjuliehorney]

Thank you for this timely thread! May I clarify about the timing of winterizing? We are headed out again to camp in 3 weeks. It is now around 45-50 degrees here in Indiana at night. Typically temps can either dip to freezing or stay at freezing by the timeb of our departure to head south November 7th.

How long does the temperature have to be at freezing for there to be problems with freezing anywhere in the waterlines, water heater? We are trying to decide if we need to winterize for these 3 weeks then unwinterize when we get to Georgia?

[Darral T.]

This is my personal opinion, but once the weather announces it hitting freezing, I winterize. You really DONT know how cold it will get out underneath the camper where (and on my Scamp they are) the drain hose, filter, and pump is exposed! And I dont know of a smaller RV that wont have the drain valves exposed underneath as well.

Look at it this way... a $3 gallon of RV antifreeze or potentially hundreds of dollars for pumps, hoses, labor? Something to think about....

Originally Posted by stevenjuliehorney

How long does the temperature have to be at freezing for there to be problems with freezing anywhere in the waterlines, water heater?

[Manny]

"To winterize the "hot" water faucets, you should have the water heater on "bypass" remember? Next, turn on the hot water faucet valve. There will be very little if ANY water comes out. Then, put your thumb over the faucet outlet and hold it there while turning on the "cold" water valve. This forces the fluid backwards into the hot water lines!! The one at my kitchen sink, you can actually look and see antifreeze that has backed its way into the lines and actually some into the water heater!! To make this a little more efficient, you may want to open the safety valve on your water heater."


Darral, thank you for your suggestion and help. I was wondering where the Bypass valve was. Thanks for the link! I will try the thumb over the faucet trick tonight as I know its not too late to try. So according to Scamps instructions, once you open the faucets and empty the heater the hot water lines should be drained? That's what they made me understand during the call.

[Darral T.]

You're very welcome as the RV world can be SO confusing!

I'm not "trusting" what Scamp says NOR that draining the water heater will drain the hot water lines. BUT, either blowing out the lines and/or applying the RV Antifreeze will do away with the residual water.

There's one thing to point out...IF you're going to blow out the lines, you will need the bypass valve OPEN so the air can enter the water heater then out the hot water lines the same at the water does!! That make sense? I know that may sound confusing but again, if you leave the water heater valve open while pumping the RV antifreeze through it, it WILL suck up much of your AF. But the "backward" pressure trick will work! Another thing I will point out here is, I can also look under my sink and see the lines that run to my bathroom.

FWIW, some people do the line "blowout" method and that's IT. Personally I'm scared of it. IF you do that, then you WILL need to do as Carol suggested and pour RV antifreeze into the drains!!

While it's not an absolute necessity, some then drain the tanks again after the antifreeze. I've noticed if you dont, the alcohol mixture seems to want to "gel" at the drain valve(s). Anyone else notice that???

Originally Posted by Manny

Darral, thank you for your suggestion and help. I was wondering where the Bypass valve was. Thanks for the link! I will try the thumb over the faucet trick tonight as I know its not too late to try. So according to Scamps instructions, once you open the faucets and empty the heater the hot water lines should be drained? That's what they made me understand during the call.

[Gail H]

Darral, Do you mean you drain the antifreeze when you DE-winterize? Or right away??? We thought the antifreeze was supposed to remain in lines and tanks throughout the cold season. Another question....about antifreeze in the toilet bowl. We thought we should keep some in the bowl to cover the seal and keep it from drying out. Is this correct? And when it evaporates (guessing it will), do you put more in? I'm a little concerned about it staining the plastic toilet bowl pink too.

[Darral T.]

I've just read some places where they say drain the water tanks AFTER you're through winterizing. (your water lines are fine at this point) I believe the theory is, if you're just using the antifreeze and NOT blowing out the lines, then you can have a significant amount of water accumulate at the drain valves (of the black/grey tank- fresh water tank excluded in this portion of draining). That make sense? Yes, it will have the antifreeze in there too, but think about it. It will be diluted. Ok...so I've done this without draining the tanks and never had a problem, but I dont live in sub-zero weather either.

Personally, I think the ultimate ideal situation would be to "blow out" the lines. Drain the black/grey tanks again (if you havent already)- and that gets rid of as much water as possible. Then add the RV antifreeze and forget it. It wont hurt to leave the RV af in the tanks...or it hasnt for me other than the "gel"-look it has in the spring. But then again, it wont hurt to drain them again if you wish.

As far as the bowl. I dont worry about what's left in the bowl. My bowl is "glass" and not plastic. But I've never seen it stain either one of my plastic Scamp sinks (bath/kitchen), nor the fiberglass shower tub. If you're concerned about the bowl seal....mine is "teflon" based on what Dometic tells me and it doesnt need lubricating. If yours is rubber, you could use some silicone-type (NON- PETROLEUM) grease. Do NOT use Vaseline or any type of petroleum grease on a "rubber" seal. It will destroy it.

Originally Posted by Gail H

Darral, Do you mean you drain the antifreeze when you DE-winterize? Or right away??? We thought the antifreeze was supposed to remain in lines and tanks throughout the cold season. Another question....about antifreeze in the toilet bowl. We thought we should keep some in the bowl to cover the seal and keep it from drying out. Is this correct? And when it evaporates (guessing it will), do you put more in? I'm a little concerned about it staining the plastic toilet bowl pink too.

[Dennis mn]

You want to leave the antifreeze in the lines all winter. The toilet bowl in my Scamp is porcelain, so staining is not an issue. If yours is truely plastic, it might be! I do have a small bit of stain from the pink antifreeze on the inside of the plastic fill fitting for my water tank. If staining is a concern, turn the pump off and push the flush lever to allow any antifreeze from the bowl drain into the black water tank. Antifreeze in the toilet bowl does nothing to protect the system.

[Sid]

Does anyone else relieve the backpressure in the lines after running the pump? I do not see it listed in any of the threads but one of my final steps is to remove the screen in the city water connection and then push in on the valve located underneath. This will "burp" the lines, allowing some water and then AF to spurt out. Replace the screen and your good to go!
Sid

[Darral T.]

Thank you Sid for bringing that out! I do that as well. And you HOPE to see "pink" come out. (Although there's no screen I remove on the Scamp..just press the plunger)

Originally Posted by Sid

Does anyone else relieve the backpressure in the lines after running the pump? I do not see it listed in any of the threads but one of my final steps is to remove the screen in the city water connection and then push in on the valve located underneath. This will "burp" the lines, allowing some water and then AF to spurt out. Replace the screen and your good to go!
Sid

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Sid

Does anyone else relieve the backpressure in the lines after running the pump? I do not see it listed in any of the threads but one of my final steps is to remove the screen in the city water connection and then push in on the valve located underneath. This will "burp" the lines, allowing some water and then AF to spurt out. Replace the screen and your good to go!
Sid

I do. Once all the lines are completely full (many of the lines on my trailer are clear so I can see they are fully loaded with pink Anti freeze) I turn the water pump off and then open up the taps one at a time and some of the anti freeze will normally come out of the tap - that will also let off the pressure in the lines. Can actually see the amount of pink in the lines drop down. My theory is as long as the only liquid in the lines is anti freeze they don't need to be completely full of it.

I do as a previous poster mention make sure ALL my holding tanks are drained prior to winterizing. To completely drain the fresh water tank I need to lower the trailers tongue down as the tanks drain is located at the bottom of the tank at the forward end of the tank. If the trailer is sitting level the fresh water tank does not completely drain. If I were to add anti freeze to the fresh water tank without making sure it was completely empty first the anti freeze going through the trailer lines would be diluted.

I also do not leave an anti freeze in the top portion of the toilet over the winter. I actually don't leave any anti freeze in the toilet at all. I drain the tank right out once I have filled the water line leading to the toilet with anti freeze. I actually don't leave any water in the toilet anytime the trailer is in storage. Never had a problem as a result of that practise.

[crowwing]

I named my Norwich Terrier 'Manny' after Manny Ramirez. Now back to winterizing....I store my Scamp at a retired turkey farm building so rodents are a concern. I use a product called Botanical Fresh Cab rodent repellent which is primarily Balsam Fir Oil in plant fibers. Found it on Amazon. I put one under each seat space and one up front under the bunk. I also put one under the sink. Mice and chipmunks stay out and it smells great. I have always put two gallons of fifty below in my water tank run it through the faucet and toilet. I have no hot water heater. The worst part about winter is we don't have our Scamp.
John

[topgun2]

As a slight addition to the above - for anyone that has an "outside shower", don't forget it as you go around opening/closing faucets in order to get the AF through the pipes.


Don't ask why I know this!

[sal6342]

We winterized our 13 foot Scamp today using all of the good advice in this posting. We only have one question on the last step. Do you empty Grey and Black tanks after doing the winterizing with the antifreeze. According to Scamp website this is the last step. We just cannot figure out why we would empty. If this is a really dumb question please forgive us. I think all the other steps were clear and I liked the tip in putting your finger over the faucet!

Thanks once agin for all the great people helping each other in this forum!

Scott and Linda and SALLEE (our Scamp)