Corrosion under battery box on Scamp 16

[The Minimalist]

JC, when you pull the terminals to clean them, you should probably replace the nuts and bolts that hold the terminals on the posts. If the wing nut bolts are badly corroded, I would go ahead and replace the terminals as well. The wiring is probably good, but after cleaning the eye terminals, if you see any green or white corrosion going up into the wire insulation, I would recommend that you cut off the terminals, cut back the wire until you get clean copper, strip and re-terminate the the wires.

This battery has been neglected for some time it seems, so it would be a good idea to charge it fully, and then bring it to a place that sells batteries and have it tested.

A quick cleanup might do the job, but you will do better to bring it up to first class condition and reduce the chance of surprises.

+1 on checking the cell levels and using the terminal spray. If you have to add water, use only distilled.

[mary and bob]

Originally Posted by padlin00

They sell a battery terminal sealer to prevent this, might be worth picking up a can and spraying the terminals and posts before putting it back together, I haven't had much luck with petroleum jelly. There is also a spray on cleaner but I have no experience with it.

We always used the spray-on sealer at work on truck batteries. Works fairly well. I use it on all my vehicles and equipment. I have the spray on cleaner, it's not all that great. With this battery I would cut the wires at the end terminals and crimp on new ends, pull it out, wash it, wire brush the terminals, remove them and see if they will clean up, replace the clamp bolts (used to buy them in box quantity of 10), use the special brush tool on the terminals. A copper fitting cleaning brush will work in the terminals. If they won't clean up then replace them. Charge and then load test is a good idea, I have so many vehicles and batteries that I own chargers and a load tester.

[Eddie Longest]

Found this on line the other day. Helps keep the water in the Battery.
Eddie
https://www.flowsystemsusa.com/index.html

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by JC_In_Austin

This battery shows it was purchased in Nov. 2015. I was about to check the water in it but, when I removed the top of the holder, this is what I found.

Judy, that much corrosion is a bit unusual. Since the photo indicates corrosion on the negative terminal as well as the positive, that could mean your battery is being undercharged. I don't know what kind of charger you have, so hard to say.

[JC_In_Austin]

Originally Posted by rbryan

Judy, that much corrosion is a bit unusual. Since the photo indicates corrosion on the negative terminal as well as the positive, that could mean your battery is being undercharged. I don't know what kind of charger you have, so hard to say.

----------------------------
Thanks VERY MUCH to everyone who has given me advice! I agree that the battery has been neglected. Apparently, the person I bought it from didn't do any maintenance of any kind on anything in the trailer since it was bought in November '14.

This Scamp has a Progressive Dynamics 9130 converter, without the Charging Wizard, so it has likely been undercharged long-term. (I discovered that it was actually unplugged from the trailer's system after we got back from our weekend trip, so the battery hasn't been charged for a while and, for all I know...ever.)

I used baking soda and water to get all the corrosion neutralized, brushed everything with a wire brush, and removed it from the case. **The two bolts through the case (into the frame) were heavily rusted, causing some rust on the frame below (I'll be sanding and repainting). I'll be replacing all the hardware, and I'll check the wires and remove any with corrosion remaining, then I'll recharge and add distilled water last.

QUESTIONS:
(1) Should I drill a couple of drain holes in the case? There are presently none. Note that this is a Group 24 Battery, and the case is about 3-4 inches longer than the battery. Maybe the mftr thought the extra space would allow for any water to evaporate without holes?

(2) Should I be worried about a pea-sized breach in the plastic outer casing of the battery, a couple of inches from the negative post? It took quite a while for it to stop frothing after I nuked it with baking soda.

(3) Should I use stainless steel nuts and bolts for replacement?

(4) Should I spring now for the Charging Wizard or wait until I need to buy a new battery (possibly this week...lol). As far as I can tell after speaking to the tech at Progressive, its sole purpose is to extend battery life, and I think this one may be on life support already.
-------------------------
Fair warning ~ I'll likely be posting some questions about the propane system in a few days since it hasn't been maintained, either. I've never, ever used propane for anything and I'm a little afraid of it. I'll do my research first, but it's very comforting to get real-time information from you veterans who've been there and done that!

Thanks again for your responses! / Judy

[JC_In_Austin]

Originally Posted by Eddie Longest

Found this on line the other day. Helps keep the water in the Battery.
Eddie
https://www.flowsystemsusa.com/index.html

Wow! Those sound great! I assume you need one for each of the 6 cells(?)

I haven't had the nerve to open the battery top yet (especially after I read "DO NOT OPEN BATTERY" near one side) so I don't actually know what it looks like under the two long caps on top.

Thanks

[Borrego Dave]

Judy, I think you'll be way ahead of the game just getting a new battery instead of messing with this one. You'd be starting your own maintenance time frame that way and not wondering the "what ifs". I'd replace the cables also and couple drain holes in the box would be good too.

[The Minimalist]

Originally Posted by JC_In_Austin

QUESTIONS:
(1) Should I drill a couple of drain holes in the case? There are presently none. Note that this is a Group 24 Battery, and the case is about 3-4 inches longer than the battery. Maybe the mftr thought the extra space would allow for any water to evaporate without holes?

(2) Should I be worried about a pea-sized breach in the plastic outer casing of the battery, a couple of inches from the negative post? It took quite a while for it to stop frothing after I nuked it with baking soda.

(3) Should I use stainless steel nuts and bolts for replacement?

1) Drain holes are a good idea. In most plastic battery cases there is a cross shaped ridge in the bottom to stiffen it. On mine I drilled a 1/4 in hole in the outside corner of each section.

2) Any breach in the battery case is cause for replacement. You probably got baking soda in that cell when you were cleaning.

3) Stainless steel will avoid most of the corrosion problems on the bolts. You want to get bolts of the same size and length and with the square head so you can loosen the terminal with only one wrench.

Note: Never charge a battery before making sure all to the cells are topped off with distilled water. When you add water, fill only to the bottom of the cylindrical walls visible. Those slots are to allow gases resulting from the charging process to escape. If you fill to the top, the gas will force acid out of the cap vents and you will have a real mess on your hands.

One more thing. When you buy a battery, get a deep cycle battery that has the stainless studs.(many batteries have both) By attaching the wires directly to the studs, you will reduce the number of locations where corrosion can cause problems.

[JC_In_Austin]

After all the great comments and suggestions, I've decided to take Borrego Dave's suggestion and just get a new battery, so that there's no doubt about the status and maintenance going forward.

I was going to buy a "charge wizard" but, after looking at the way the converter is mounted (under the bench seat about 5" from the back wall), I don't think I can get the plate off to attach the wizard. Removing the bench seat is just...no.

If you have any tips on keeping it charged properly, I'm all eyes!

Again, thanks to all of you for taking the time to help me out. I really do appreciate it. 😬

/ Judy

[JC_In_Austin]

I'm going to strip the front wires up to clean territory, since replacing the entire length of cable would also involve removing the power converter. It's mounted such that it's impossible to mess with without removing it, or the entire dinette bench (poor design, IMO). Neither is an option for me right now.

The eyelets look good, but one wire bubbled a bit from under the sleeve during cleanup, so I'll be sure to remove any compromised wire.

[JC_In_Austin]

Battery recommendations, please?

Has to be a marine battery, correct?

Thanks again! / Judy

[alan H]

Pay close attention to battery cables
Easy to forget which goes where
Dont ask how i know

[Glenn Baglo]

As for battery recommendations, Walmart sells a 'marine' battery for cheap. It's a combo starting and deep cycle. It's not a true deep cycle battery, which is what you want. So, don't ask for a 'marine' battery. Ask for a deep cycle.
I have a Trojan group 27 deep cycle. Interstate is another brand. You pay a premium for Trojan, but it's worth it in my mind.
Go here for tons of info on batteries and battery maintenance:
Marine / Recreational Vehicle – MR | Trojan Battery Company

[JC_In_Austin]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

As for battery recommendations, Walmart sells a 'marine' battery for cheap. It's a combo starting and deep cycle. It's not a true deep cycle battery, which is what you want. So, don't ask for a 'marine' battery. Ask for a deep cycle.
I have a Trojan group 27 deep cycle. Interstate is another brand. You pay a premium for Trojan, but it's worth it in my mind.
Go here for tons of info on batteries and battery maintenance:
Marine / Recreational Vehicle – MR | Trojan Battery Company

Sweet! Researching now! Thanks so much! / Judy

[The Minimalist]

Originally Posted by JC_In_Austin

Battery recommendations, please?

Has to be a marine battery, correct?

Thanks again! / Judy

Well, you want a deep cycle battery anyway. In the marine batteries you want to get one that is clearly marked 'deep cycle', not a marine starting battery. The big difference between deep cycle and starting batteries is the thickness and number of plates in the cells. Starting batteries are designed for producing a lot of amps over a short time, whereas deep cycle batteries are made to produce moderate amps over a long period of time and stand up to frequent charge-discharge cycles.

You will hear some batteries referred to as 'true' deep cycle batteries, but I think for your use in a 13 footer the marine deep cycle will be sufficient and easier to find at a competitive price.

There are a lot of types out there, flooded lead acid(FLA), absorbent glass mat(AGM), gel, etc. For camper use, the flooded lead acid is the best buy. There are some advantages to the AGM and gel and but you pay more for those benefits and personally I am not convinced that they are worth the extra money, for our use.

On any deep cycle battery you want to look for the amp hour rating. The standard test for amp hours is a 20 hour test. On the 20 hour test, if the battery is labeled 100 AH, that means that you can draw 5 amps from the battery for 20 hours before the battery is dead. Some marine deep cycle batteries, particularly those from WalMart were tested on a 100 hour test to make them look better. If the vendor can't assure you that the amp hours are based on the 20 hour test, go elsewhere.

The Group 24 battery you have, if it's a deep cycle, would normally give 80 to 85 AH. Of course, if you want to get maximum battery life, you will never drop the battery below half of it's capacity, so figure on average you will get 40 hours or so of use at maximum draw. Most systems on the small trailers will never draw the maximum, unless you run an inverter or try to operated the 3 way fridge on DC.

Given that you have a larger case than the Group 24 requires, you might want to move up to a larger battery. The battery group number specifies the physical size of the battery, among other things. You can measure the case and bring the measurements when you shop batterys, but first look on the top of the case. Many times the group size is marked on the case and sometimes it is part of the part number. If you see a 27, 29 or 31 in the part number, that likely indicates the group size that that case was meant for. So, if the case is marked 27 for example, any group 27 battery should fit in that case. For comparison purposes, a Group 27 Deep Cycle battery should give you about 100 amp hours, a significant increase of the Group 24.

[JC_In_Austin]

Originally Posted by alan H

Pay close attention to battery cables
Easy to forget which goes where
Dont ask how i know

Hah! Ok! In the photo I took, the white cable was on the right ~ and negative.

I won't ask (but I'm really sorry that happened to you)!

[The Minimalist]

Originally Posted by JC_In_Austin

Sweet! Researching now! Thanks so much! / Judy

Actually, Glen, though I agree with the recommendation to steer clear of Wal Mart batteries because of the way they are rated, your blanket characterization of marine batteries is not quite correct. There are two types of marine batteries, marine starting and marine deep cycle. A marine starting battery is just that; it supplies a large amperage, for short periods, for starting the engine. A marine deep cycle battery is for operating trolling motors, lights and electronics, providing moderate amperage over a long period of time and and they are able to stand up to frequent and deep charge-discharge cycles.

[stevebaz]

If you change the battery box to a good marine type there will be no holes on top. The cover is designed to vent out the side under the lid so no water will get in. Since I used the marine type battery box on my Scamp I did drill (2) 1/4" drain holes in the bottom so if I spill any water or wish to rinse off the box inside the liquid would drain out the bottom and the battery would not sit in a puddle. On a boat you would not do that because if the boat is swamped they want the battery held dry in a bubble of air.

[Glenn Baglo]

Clif,
Good post and info. I based my info on what I found at my local Walmart, which is why I went elsewhere. They didn't have a proper deep cycle battery offered.

[The Minimalist]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Clif,
Good post and info. I based my info on what I found at my local Walmart, which is why I went elsewhere. They didn't have a proper deep cycle battery offered.

Thanks. They do stock marine deep cycle batteries, but not dependably. My main gripe with them is the way they rate their batteries. And, no big surprise, there is no one there who can speak knowledgeably about the product.