Trillium Window Removal - Fiberglass RV
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Old 04-21-2008, 10:26 AM   #1
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Trailer: 1976 13 ft Trillium
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I've been reading past posts about leaks and have been wondering about the actual mechanics of removing windows from a 13' Trillium... each post I've seen (so far) that mentions removing windows does not elaborate on the actual steps required to remove said windows.

At this point, my best guess is that I will find screws of some sort under the black strips attached to the aluminum window frame. My (gentle) prodding at these strips seems to indicate they are quite stiff (being a cold day probably didn't help matters), and deciding to take the cautious route, I ceased prodding and resolved to ask before actually breaking something.

So, do these strips actually come/off out easily? (should the be warmed first?)

Are they reusable or will I need to source replacements?

What will I find lurking under the strips? (what should I be careful to look for?)

Will I need to make any arrangements to the window area from INSIDE the trailer before removing a window?

Will I need extra bodies (hands) to remove the windows once I get past the actual releasing them from their bondage to the trailer?

Installation (after a thorough cleaning/refurbishment of the window opening) with butyl tape and stainless fasteners seems to be the consensus from what I've read. (I will now think twice before reaching for the silicon sealer...)

What am I fogetting to ask...

Thanks
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Old 04-21-2008, 10:36 AM   #2
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Surfsides/Trilliums are based on the same mould and have similar windows. One thing I have heard consistently is a.) replace the screws holding the windows with stainless steel ones and b.) use Butyl tape for the window sealant.

There is a discussion on replacing surfside windows here
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Old 04-21-2008, 12:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
I've been reading past posts about leaks and have been wondering about the actual mechanics of removing windows from a 13' Trillium... each post I've seen (so far) that mentions removing windows does not elaborate on the actual steps required to remove said windows.
I second the motion for stainless steel and butyl tape. I also suggest staying away from caulking material. The plastic strip covering the screws is most likely brittle by now and will probably break when you pull it off so you should consider replacing it altogether - ask for Hehr-style screw cover strips at your local RV dealer (via the Atlas supplier). The old screws can be fairly easily removed with a power screwdriver however some of them may be rusted-in and will break when you try pulling them out. There are also wooden pieces behind the window (which the screws go into) that should be inspected - they may be rotten (I replaced all of mine). The aluminium window itself isn't that heavy and can be handled by one person - the key is to remove the screens, open the windows a bit, and take your time.
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:18 PM   #4
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the plastic strips ARE readily available at Meridian mobile. I'd shy away from a power screw driver to remove old screws, too easy to break them off. Two bodies (4 hands) are always better for any chores. Do NOT use silicon chalk, I did (not on my windows) and now I'm sorta regretting it and definately replace screws with stainless.... will we see you on May 10th @ The Fort campground???
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Old 04-21-2008, 05:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
the plastic strips ARE readily available at Meridian mobile. I'd shy away from a power screw driver to remove old screws, too easy to break them off. Two bodies (4 hands) are always better for any chores. Do NOT use silicon chalk, I did (not on my windows) and now I'm sorta regretting it and definately replace screws with stainless.... will we see you on May 10th @ The Fort campground???
Booker, Daniel, Doug - thanks for these replies. I will be very careful with the powered screw driver as I have indeed quickly snapped heads off screws in the past when a slow, thoughtful job with a manual driver would likely have done the job. It's good to know the plastic strips are easily available too.

I don't know if we'll make it to the Fort campground for the gathering, a lot of things on the go between now and mid-June.

Again, thanks.
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Old 04-21-2008, 10:50 PM   #6
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DAVID.....THATS M A Y!!! NOT June!!!! May 9/11 at The Fort!!! EIGHTEEN SLEEPS........
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Old 04-22-2008, 01:20 PM   #7
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There are also wooden pieces behind the window (which the screws go into) that should be inspected - they may be rotten (I replaced all of mine).
Would you happen to have the measurements for the wood? I need to replace the rotten wood in my front window, and I would like to have it cut before I start the job. When I had the side window out it never occured to me to measure the wood.

Thanks.
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Old 04-22-2008, 08:32 PM   #8
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Would you happen to have the measurements for the wood?
Well, let's see... in my Trillium the wooden strips were about 2" wide or so. The larger window has two pieces of about 52" long across the top and bottom, and two shorter pieces of about 22" on each side. They are made out of 3/4" plywood with one side cut at an angle (makes smoother edges for the ensolite around the frame). The exact length of each piece can vary a bit from one window to the other, so I would suggest not making the final cuts until you measure your old frame.


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Old 04-23-2008, 12:27 PM   #9
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They are made out of 3/4" plywood
Thank You!

At least now i don't have to pull out the window, then go to lumber yard, I can have 3/4" wood at the ready.
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Old 05-19-2011, 11:26 AM   #10
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Trailer: 2014 GWV Trillium Sidekick 1500
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Re-sealing the windows in my Trillium 1300

Hello,

I have started the window re-seal process on my Trillium 1300 windows. I have thus far exrtracted and cleaned one of my side dinette windows and obtained butyl tape and stainless steel screws. These are my hints:

For butyl tape the best place I found to get it at a reasonable price is:

Go-West RV Center at $9+change for a fair sized roll (not sure how many feet yet, but definitely much larger then what I found at other places.

For the stainless steel screws I recommend getting them at:

Pacific Fasteners - Home as I was able to pickup 180 pieces for about $9 vs. getting 6 pieces to a pack at Home Depot for $2.65. Shame on you Home Depot, that is a $70 difference!

Now my questions are:
  1. The wood window frame *looks* like it is in good shape, I don't see any water stains except for one spot and it doesn't feel soft or look rotted. I am by no means an expert, how can I tell? What am I looking for that will help me decide if I should replace the frames? The putty around the windows was in great shape as it was still soft and pliable. Are there any experts that are in the Vancouver Lower Mainland area that care to come down and have a look? If you help me with mine I am more than happy to help you with yours.
  2. The screws appear to be #8 3/4" screws. If I am going to re-use the existing wood frames and hence the same screw holes should I be using slighly larger screws? Is there such thing as a #9 3/4" screw? Or is #10 3/4 the next size up? Obviously I dunno much about screws...
  3. The kitchen window has rivets on the sides and screws on the top and bottom, do I need to remove the rivets to get the window out? What is the degree of difficulty? Anyone know the rivet size?
My bellyband also needs to have a bead of some kind of sealant applied to the top of it. I have a horrible hand for this kind of work. Again, if there is anyone in the Vancouver Lower Mainland area that is great at caulking I would be more than happy to help you with your trailer if you can help me with this. If you are awesome at it and don't need help with your trailer I would be happy to pay for this service. I personally think people who are good at caulking stuff should leave a stack of business cards next to the job. I see good jobs from time to time but when I ask around for someone to do the caulking on my various projects everyone I ask seems to be reluctant and the guy I end up with tends to do a terrible job. I always look at it and think "I could have done better than that!".

One last thing: I need to get my brake drums sand blasted and painted with heat resistant paint because the rims I bought are pretty open and expose much of the brake drum. I took the drums off the trailer, removed the bearings and seals and clean all the grease off of them and took them down to an autobody place. They wanted $355 to sandblast and paint the hubs for me. This seemed a little high to me, does anyone know a place that I can take these to and get this done? Again, if this is a service you can provide I am willing to barter with you, pay you a reasonable price, or help you with yours. For $355 I might as well buy an air compressor with a sandblasting and spray attachment and do it myself and have these around for when I get to the frame. PM me if interested. Thanks!

~Rodre
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:30 PM   #11
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Hi Rod,
Wood is cheap; if you're already in there I'd replace it. The wood I pulled out of mine was A, rotted and B, a pretty cheap, high void ply. I replaced mine with a high grade, low void, birch ply.
I think screws are even #'s, never heard of a #9.
As far as the belly band goes, I was tired of the band-aids and just finished up the project of eliminating mine. Ripped it off, ground the glass to "below grade", glassed it in, sanded it flush and fair, primed, painted. Looks like it should have from the factory; nonexistant. I'll post an extensive how- to in the next couple days, with pics. It's not rocket science!
Good luck.
Scott
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Old 05-19-2011, 02:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott H View Post
Hi Rod,
Wood is cheap; if you're already in there I'd replace it. The wood I pulled out of mine was A, rotted and B, a pretty cheap, high void ply. I replaced mine with a high grade, low void, birch ply.
Scott
Hello Scott,

Thanks for your reply. Is the wood around the window frame "glassed in"? How is it held in place, just by the ensolite? My main problem is that I don't really have a saw or workshop area for that matter to do it in, so that is why I am avoiding doing it if possible. It seems that every time I take simple things to a shop to get done they want an arm/leg/blood/firstborn to do simple jobs. If I decide to go this route does it make any sense for me to put treated plywood in? How did you arrive to the choice of the high grade, low void, birch ply? Thanks for all the info!

Oh, BTW, if I just re-use the existing frames should I use #10 screws?

Oh, and, and if I like the look of the bellyband can I get the seam filled in with fiberglass to stop the leaks and then have bellyband re-installed? Or would what is left of the rivets get in the way?

~Rod

~Rod
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:44 PM   #13
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Rod,
The wood is held in place by the same screws that are holding the window in, it's the back side of the sandwich. The ensolite may keep it from moving around but it's not structural. I used the birch ply cause I had it laying around. AC (I think that's what it's called) is low void, less expensive option. No tools? I would see if I could find some 2" x .75" hardwood, cut it to length by hand, and round one corner by hand so the ensotite wraps over it smoothly.
I think I used #8's but cant remember. What fits through the holes in the widow frame best?
Belly band? Yes, Gumpit just did something similar. Do a search, it was fairly recent.
Scott
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Old 05-19-2011, 04:07 PM   #14
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Name: Larry
Trailer: Trillium
Arizona
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Reinstalling Trillium Windows

Hello,

When I did my Trill 1300 windows a couple of years ago
I found that the plywood looked like it had been wet many times...
but it was not rotted out. I believe they used 'marine' ply when
manufacturing the trailer. I had some trouble with some of the
screws stripping out when the windows were reinstalled. So I used
the old carpenter trick... before I put the windows in I stuck a wood
glue dipped wooden match stick in each hole in the plywood through
the mounting holes in the fiberglass. The next day I ran a razor knife
between the fiberglass skin and the interior plywood strips to cut the
match sticks off fairly flush with the backin plywood strips. Then, I
was quite careful reinstalling the windows to avoid stripping out the
screws from the plywood backing using a electric screwdriver but doing
the final tightening by hand. This process worked well with the
windows being quite snug and no more leads!

GL Larry H
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Old 05-19-2011, 04:29 PM   #15
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AHhhhhhh!, what to do? what to do? I had settled on renting a table saw from Home Depot after reading Scott's reply, but after reading Larry's reply it got me thinking of doing it the easy way. I wish I could really tell if the wood needs replacing. What am I looking for? Black rotted areas, soft or spungy spots? Should I poke it hard with a awl and see if it goes deep?

Now I am also thinking about what if I open up the other windows and their wood needs replacing? Then I am going to wish I replaced the wood in the one I just opened up and re-sealed (my trailer is in a parkade and I am not really supposed to be doing repairs there so I am trying to do it low key).

Also, what about the side kitchen window? Do the rivets hold the window frame to the trailer body? Is it going to be a pain to remove after I drill the rivets out?

Thanks everyone for your info!

~Rod
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Old 05-19-2011, 05:29 PM   #16
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Name: Larry
Trailer: Trillium
Arizona
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Hi Rod,
On the wood... use the awl... compare the firmness to a piece
of similar wood you have on hand... generally I would say if
the plywood is not soft and has not delaminated it is probably OK.
Mine was quit dark gray to black and it seemed to work OK as
it was not dry rotted.

Kitchen window... you have to drill out the rivets. I used my table say to
cut some backing strips to put behind where the rivets were drilled so
screws could be used on reassembly. Of course, you could reinstall using
rivets...

On my trailer I removed all the windows including the one in the door.
The caulking around the windows was over 30 years old so I figured it would
be best to do it all. While I was at it I reset the roof vent. I bought new
plastic channel to recover the screw heads as some of the the old stuff
cracked when i pulled it off.

When you get ready to reinstall the windows use plenty of butyl tape.
I doubled it to get plenty of sqeeze-out... it is not very expensive.
The butyl will keep coming out from around the frame for a day or two.
Hint... make sure the tape is warm when you use it... I put it out in the sun
or on top of the dashboard of my truck in the sun to make sure it is quite
soft. I like to get it to the stage where the paper tape between the layers
of the butyl tape just starts to stick... It can be a tad difficult to unroll
sometimes but it is worth the effort, in my opinion. Alternatively, you could
put the tape on the window frames and then warm the whole thing up
to get the tape soft. Ensure that the surfaces of the window frames and
the exterior of the trailer are very clean. I use denatured alcohol to clean
before installation. I find it preferable as it it is not as toxic as many other
solvents.

The above procedure was taught to me by my neighbor who ran
an RV repair business for over 20 years and is a wealth of information. Since
he had to warranty his work he used some overkill but found it better than a
call back for no pay.

Hope this helps.
Larry H
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Old 05-19-2011, 09:37 PM   #17
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Trailer: 1979 Trillium 4500
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When I resealed the windows on our trill I used #10 stainless screws figuring that since I wasn't replacing the wood I needed bigger diameter screws to hold. Good idea -they hold good but the heads are large enough that the screw cover moulding is hard to reinstall. Matches and glue-lots of holes- longer screws-maybe screws w/ smaller heads? Always another dilemma. On the plus side the windows don't leak anymore. I would also encourage you to use exterior grade ply if you do replace the wood.
Best of luck.
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Old 05-20-2011, 08:55 PM   #18
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Best place I found for the stainless steel screws is E-bay...
Stainless Steel Sheet Metal Pan Hd Screw 1000 - #10x3/4 | eBay

The ones I bought was a 1000 for $32.50 including shipping you just have to keep looking until they show up....Also the Butyl tape is fairly reasonable there too a hint on that stuff keep it in the refigerator right up until you use it that way it want stretch and tear as bad.....Hope this helps....RANDY
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Old 05-22-2011, 06:18 AM   #19
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If you buy plywood from home depot, they usually make 5 cuts free,(their saw will cut the angle you need, take a sample from the old stuff with you) the rest of the cuts should be less than $5 each,get them to make your main cuts, then get a handsaw and do your own trim cuts
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:26 PM   #20
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After reading all the above I have decided to just go the #8 screws with the matches and glue in the existing holes to give the new Stainless Steel screws something to bite into. I didn't want to risk cracking the fiberglass getting the larger #10 screws in, also on the one side the screw holes in the fiberglass are very close to the edge so I don't want to risk breaking this row of holes. I looked at the wood and it is in fantastic shape, so I think removing them would just be too much work for not so much return. I have posted some pictures and would like your feedback.

In regards to cracking screw holes, it looks like there are some pressure cracks around some of the screw holes. The worst ones crack reaches past where the window frame and butyl tape would cover. Is this something I should look at repairing before putting the window back on? If so does anyone have any suggestions? How hard would it be for me to repair? I am going to be taking the trailer to a boat fiberglass repair place to get a couple of small rock chips in the gel coat repaired and the whole trailer buffed and waxed and the gel coat brought back to new. Should I just get the boat repair place to do it before I put the windows back on myself?

~Rodre
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