Escape Insulation Package vs Bigfoot 4-Seasons Insulation

[rbryan]

My two cents: a double hulled trailer with all plumbing enclosed is superior in every respect to a single hull with external plumbing, regardless of what you do to insulate it. In terms of quality, it's in a class by itself.

Having said that, layout is far more important to us than true 4 season camping ability. If Oliver ever made a trailer whose floorplan was something other than a stretched Casita, we would strongly consider it. Of course, everyone's priorities are different.

[thrifty bill]

Check out how motorhomes do four seasons. They pretty much all have all water inside the heated space including tanks. Can't get there with the Escape.

Now on the other hand, I like having increased storage inside the trailer by putting the water tank below the floor (Escape design).

Agree, can't make a single hull trailer as cold weather efficient as a double hull can be. And surely it costs more to make a double hull trailer. So the higher pricing of Oliver and Bigfoot are not that surprising.


As far as summer heat, I've had no problem with keeping the Escape plenty cool. Thermopane windows probably help. No interest in cold weather (season 4 if you will) camping.

+10 Layout/floorplan is KING for us.

As far as "getting what you pay for", I find a lot of things, price does not equate to quality. Is a $1000 iPhone 10 twice or three times as good as some of its competitors? (I've got an iPhone myself, I call the pricing "the Apple tax").

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

...Agree, can't make a single hull trailer as cold weather efficient as a double hull can be. And surely it costs more to make a double hull trailer. So the higher pricing of Oliver and Bigfoot are not that surprising.

Bigfoot is not a double hull trailer. There is no molded inner shell. Perhaps what you meant was they both have a double bottom, i.e., an enclosed underbelly, for holding tank protection?

Bigfoot and Oliver have taken very different paths to building a 4-season molded trailer. It would be interesting to do a side-by-side controlled test of the B21 and E II (seem closest in interior volume) to see how efficient and comfortable the two are under the same cold-weather conditions. Leave both buttoned up with the thermostat set at 62 degrees for 48 hours of below freezing weather. Monitor interior temperatures throughout the cabin, holding tank temperatures, propane consumption, and battery draw.

It's a pity there isn't more controlled testing of RV's in general. Most of the trade magazines print nothing but glorified marketing in the guise of "reviews."

[Rumline]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

It's a pity there isn't more controlled testing of RV's in general. Most of the trade magazines print nothing but glorified marketing in the guise of "reviews."

This. I am reminded of Practical Sailor. Although that rag isn't perfect, they do scientific-enough tests of various products and are subscription-based so not beholden to manufacturers buying ads.

[South Coast Stu]

Originally Posted by Jane P.

I also read that, in the Bigfoot 4 seasoned trailers, the furnace worked in conjunction with the plumping and tank to provide protection. But I never found any written information on how that worked. Given Deb's post, I now wonder if that integration referred to the newer models manufactured after my 2006.

While going through my 2003 25RB21 today I noticed this small duct running into the floor. I assume this is to heat the holding tanks(?)



This is in the space right under the closet. You can see the large duct going to the bathroom. Pretty easy for folks to take a peak and see if they have it.

[David and Nancy]

Deb and Chuck may be Bigfoot experts, but 4 season Bigfoots have been around since way before 2006. As stated by another post, all the 2500 models are four season, the old 1500 models were not. Not sure about the 19' model owned by the OP. That being said, few people actually need a four season trailer very often, if ever. So spending extra for that is a matter of personal needs. True four season trailers include double pane windows, well-insulated walls, and (most importantly) fully enclosed and heated water tanks and plumbing. Bigfoot does not enclose the tanks with double wall construction. They build an extra compartment over the tanks and run heat ducts into that space.

If the OP wants a queen sized bed in a four season trailer, look no further than a Bigfoot 25. New Bigfoots have a really high price point for my budget. But you can find affordable used ones if you are persistent enough. Deals on used Escapes are much more rare since there are not many out there.

[floyd]

Don't forget you must TOW what you choose!


"You get what you pay for" is more or less an anachronism.
My Timex keeps time just as well as a Rolex, and I won't get mugged for it!
So it depends on whether you are buying "Bling" or a watch.
Don't forget to wind the Rolex ( The Timex needs a battery every seven years)



Does any one know what movie said...
" It only cost twice as much to go first class."?
Sometimes 90% for half the price is just a better deal!



Price paid

[yardsale]

Surprised that Lance trailers haven't entered this discussion. My buddy traded his Bigfoot for one as it isn't stick built like the BF (hence susceptible to rot) and was lighter with better layout in his mind.

[David and Nancy]

Nick, Bigfoots are not stick-built but are molded fiberglass like the others on this forum. Lance, on the other hand certainly look stick built, but I am not really familiar with what materials they use. Bigfoot Industries, in the past, did market a line of stick built trailers for awhile. I have never seen one, but maybe your buddy had one of those. All current Bigfoots, and the vast majority of old ones are molded fiberglass.

[yardsale]

Perhaps my memory is faulty. How about the roof, are there wooden trusses up there? Lance has a multi layer laminate construction with a lot of CAD CAM design for accuracy and consistency. https://www.lancecamper.com/design-construction/

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by yardsale

Surprised that Lance trailers haven't entered this discussion.

Why would you be surprised that a stickie (albeit a high quality stickie with aluminum superstructure) hasn't entered the discussion on a molded fiberglass forum?

Originally Posted by yardsale

My buddy traded his Bigfoot for one as it isn't stick built like the BF..

As has been mentioned, a Bigfoot is a molded fiberglass trailer, not a stickie.

[Roger C H]

We have camped in below freezing weather in our Trillium and had no problems. Of course we don't use our plumbing. Our water tank was emptied our first year and not used since. We carry drinking water in two former apple juice gallon jugs. When needing refill, we stop at a Glacier or other water dispenser.
Camping in Yuma, AZ, the fountain next to us had icicles! We were plenty warm in Homelet with our electric radiator heater.

[Jack L]

Originally Posted by David and Nancy

Nick, Bigfoots are not stick-built but are molded fiberglass like the others on this forum. Lance, on the other hand certainly look stick built, but I am not really familiar with what materials they use. Bigfoot Industries, in the past, did market a line of stick built trailers for awhile. I have never seen one, but maybe your buddy had one of those. All current Bigfoots, and the vast majority of old ones are molded fiberglass.

In 2000 Bigfoot built some "Millennium" trailers that were fiberglass, foam panels on a framework. They called it a fibercore, or some similar name construction but only a few were built and the only ones I have seen were built in 2000. The first time I saw one listed on Craigslist at a price that was much lower than a molded unit would sell for, and it was listed for some weeks before it was gone. Cost less than a molded Bigfoot, and well worth it.

[bretb]

I also have my eye on 19 Escape with Queen bed just wish they were closer! Love the layout and queen bed. More insulation is a great option - cooler summer warmer winter. There are many people living in vans and whatnot full time with insulated walls and floors no problem and it's not hard to heat these small areas. I'd just go for it and you can of course always just dry camp (which I'd do anyhow when freezing) to avoid risk of freezing pipes and blowing out lines.

[NW Cat Owner]

On our 21' Escape we got the heated tank pads, underneath foam and were one of the few that had heat tape installed at the factory. I know one trailer before ours got it installed and I think after ours they said "no" to anyone else asking. Don't know how many they ended up doing, but not very many as Reese had to call me to see if I had more information on how to install it. Nope, I didn't.


We got all that in case the trailer is used when it's much colder, which hasn't happened - yet. But who knows what the future holds.


I do know it was quite hot in the trailer when I was traveling last summer in 90-95 degree weather. Of course, the a/c will cool it down, but it's so damn noisy that I wasn't able to sleep through it. I'd run it until I was ready to go to bed (and snuggled under a fleece blanket as I was getting it as cold as I could in there) and I'd get probably about 5 hours sleep before I'd wake up sweating away and massively overheated. But that was much more sleep than I was getting with the a/c running.


It would be interesting to know if a 4-season Bigfoot would have been cooler in those temperatures than the Escape was. In the same conditions, of course. (Many times without shade trees overhead.)

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by yardsale

Perhaps my memory is faulty. How about the roof, are there wooden trusses up there? Lance has a multi layer laminate construction with a lot of CAD CAM design for accuracy and consistency. https://www.lancecamper.com/design-construction/

Google Lance delimitation. Here's one, trailer was six years old.


RV.Net Open Roads Forum: How to delaminate the not yet delaminated. A rotten story.

[Bruce Olive]

Our Oliver came with a 13,500 btu a/c and had no trouble staying cool on 100 degree F days. We ordered our Bigfoot with their 11,000 btu a/c unit, and also stay very cool on 100 degree F days. The 11,000 btu model starts and runs easily using our 2,000 watt propane-powered Yamaha gen set. We are experiencing far less condensation (hardly any) in the Bigfoot on cold days compared to the Oliver. Just feels a lot cozier on really cold days. Both trailers were far cozier than a buddy’s Airstream, so there’s that.

[k corbin]

Don't mistake what is going on with the Bigfoots.

The Bigfoot trailers have wood framing in them because they are designed for cold weather camping. That space the interior framing provides is filled with insulation that is actually thick enough to work. This is they reason they have wood inside of them, it is all about the insulation so they can be used in the winter in cold regions. Some of the Bigfoots also offered an upgrade to double pane windows. There are in Canada, land of hunting in the fall and winter, skiing, ice fishing, etc. Of course the trailers are made differently, the climate is different.

The design is intentionally different than most other molded fiberglass trailers that have very minimal to no insulation because those other trailers are intended for warm season camping.

[FRMcClure]

Originally Posted by k corbin

Don't mistake what is going on with the Bigfoots.

The Bigfoot trailers have wood framing in them because they are designed for cold weather camping. That space the interior framing provides is filled with insulation that is actually thick enough to work. This is they reason they have wood inside of them, it is all about the insulation so they can be used in the winter in cold regions..

The wood in BF is not for framing. There are selected areas where wood is encapsulated in fiberglass for the purpose of reinforcing mounting points, such as to mount cabinets on the inside or a ladder on the outside. This is the same as the Escape I believe and likely every fiberglass trailer. They all require reinforcement points for anchoring because the fiberglass alone (being slightly less than 1/4 inch thick) won't hold a fastener all that well in areas subject to heavy load. The photo shows a cutout from a 2500 series Bigfoot. EPS Foam board glued to fiberglass on one side and vinyl covered luan on the other.

[Garnet]

I have a 92 Bigfoot 17G that I am trying to upgrade the insulation in. I have foamed in insulation where I could but the underside is my weakest link. The fiberglass bottom is exposed and I wanted suggestion as to what is the best insulation material to reduce my heat loss through the floor. Suggestions?