ParkLiner wheel wells & tires

[Huck]

What was the responsibility of Parkliner regarding the wheel wells and tire rub? It seems to me it was to eliminate the problem, if it existed. Under warranty, how they fix the problem is likely their decision.

The issue seems to be that Parkliner examined the trailer and determined that enlarging the wheel wells wasn't needed and that replacing the tires with slightly smaller tires was an appropriate solution and that Frank doesn't agree with that solution. Since Parkliner has a fiberglass guy, I don't understand why they would not have had him resize the wheel wells if that was the appropriate fix.

So the questions I have are:

1. Was there a wheel well problem on Frank's trailer exhibited by tire rub? I don't believe all the early trailers had the problem.
2. If answer to above is yes, did the action taken by Parkliner resolve the problem?

If there was a demonstrable tire rub issue and the action taken by Parkliner didn't resolve the problem, it seems Parkliner is at fault. On the other hand, if there was no apparent tire rub issue or if Parkliner's action resolved the tire rub issue, it would seem Parkliner is not at fault.

[Jared J]

So if you took your car in for warranty because it overheated, and they pulled your v-8 out and put a v-6 in, you would consider that fixed? That trailer came with a spec'd tire size, and that's what should be on it.

Downsizing tires because a wheel well is too small isn't a fix, it's hack.

My scamp axle was 100% flattened out and the tires still didn't touch, and they never should on a proper design.

Could you imagine hitting a big pothole and stuffing a tire at highway speed and having it stop? All hell would break loose.


Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV

[frank_a]

Gee Huck, should I take the stand?

Early in January I emailed Cameron about the wheel well issue after seeing the pics of their Facebook site of how they could get 3 or 4 fingers in. He wasn't sure they could do anything, so I sent him pics of my wheel wells (I cannot get more than one finger in), and after a week or so he got back to me saying he had talked to Chandler, and they would do it, but needed at least 2, and probably 3 days to do it. No problem. We made arrangements to get the trailer down there, and a week before we were to go, got an email from Mr. Bass, and was told they could not do it the time we had planned. Gee, that's great, time and $ down the tubes. So then I finally get down there, and essentially nothing much gets done. They couldn't even move the batteries and do it right. They broke the bath door handle while it was there. All of a sudden I had a waste pipe leak I had not had before.

I still haven't answered your question, and am not going to. Whatever you think is fine. I had this all arranged and had been told certain things would be done. For all the money (and time) I put out, I could have had the wheel wells expanded (and more) done right at home. Basically, I learned a very expensive lesson. Don't trust ParkLiner.

I still like our trailer, but if I had known then what I know now, we'd have an Escape.

Frank

[Huck]

Originally Posted by frank_a

Gee Huck, should I take the stand?

Frank

Frank, I think we can hold off on the witness stand for now!

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

...
In July, the Oregon Gathering happened on the southern Oregon Coast. About 100 all molded towables had reservations. Reace and Tammy (Escape Trailer Industries) came down from BC and brough a bathroom door, because someone from California had one in an Escape that WARPED (probably due to humidity). Reace changed it out... during a rally...

Now THAT is customer service!

Whether Escape builds a better trailer doesn't matter. People perceive they do and that generates a cult like following that results in ever increasing sales. People will wait a long time and travel a long way to buy a trailer from these folks. That in turn increases the resale value of a used trailer when the original owner wants to upgrade. One could spend thousands of dollars on advertising and not promote your product anywhere near what the owner repairing a door at a rally will do. A little good faith goes a long way. I don't get why this is so hard to understand but it must be. Raz

[Timber Wolf]

This whole sorry affair comes down to communication, like most do. Poorly communicated expectations and poorly communicated resolutions. I think what can be learned is a buyer should clearly express (maybe in writing?) exactly what they expect to happen, get the company to agree, and make sure the company understands that they are to keep the buyer informed along the way of ANY deviations from this plan.

Perhaps we expect too much in this day and age. I bought a new (laptop) computer the other day. I needed one, as did my daughter for school (she has to have her own computer for the 6th grade!) so I decided to buy one similar to hers so she could teach Daddy how to use it. The one I wanted was not in stock so I had it sent to the store. I paid them to set it up with the virus software and generally get it ready to go. I picked it up the next week and took it home. At home I discovered they had set up a password and nobody bothered to tell me what it was. A calm but stern phone call and several minutes of them trying to figure out what the Tech had done got me going. So, lesson learned, don't leave the store unless I am sure I am not locked out of the dang machine.

A couple of weeks back I sent a note of encouragement to Parkliner via their website expressing my interest in their product and my intent to possibly be a customer in a year or two. I ended my communication with the hope that they would pay particular attention to product quality and customer service. So, I am watching and waiting. I can, or cannot buy whatever I want. If I decide I want a new trailer I will have one. Or not, I have a good Scamp and it meets my needs. I WANT a new trailer, and the Parkliner meets my WANTS. Wants can wait, they are not going to keep me from camping.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Huck

What was the responsibility of Parkliner regarding the wheel wells and tire rub? It seems to me it was to eliminate the problem, if it existed. Under warranty, how they fix the problem is likely their decision.

The issue seems to be that Parkliner examined the trailer and determined that enlarging the wheel wells wasn't needed and that replacing the tires with slightly smaller tires was an appropriate solution and that Frank doesn't agree with that solution. Since Parkliner has a fiberglass guy, I don't understand why they would not have had him resize the wheel wells if that was the appropriate fix.

So the questions I have are:

1. Was there a wheel well problem on Frank's trailer exhibited by tire rub? I don't believe all the early trailers had the problem.
2. If answer to above is yes, did the action taken by Parkliner resolve the problem?

If there was a demonstrable tire rub issue and the action taken by Parkliner didn't resolve the problem, it seems Parkliner is at fault. On the other hand, if there was no apparent tire rub issue or if Parkliner's action resolved the tire rub issue, it would seem Parkliner is not at fault.

I think a better question in regards to determining if there is an issue with the tire clearance or not is to confirm that the axle manufacture Dexter says the min. tire clearance should be. Its my understanding that Dexter specifies a min. of 3" of clearance with their torflex axle. Thats on a fully loaded trailer. Which is why you would be hard pressed to find a current fiberglass trailer manufacture that does not build with at least that and in most cases twice that and more.

[emers382]

Frank, I just came across this thread today and so sorry to hear of the "non-fixes" PL did especially when you seemed so pleased on your way home from NC.

My experience with customer service is with Escape and I can second Donna's story of bathroom door fix. Our new to us Escape lost it's spare tire and mount on our very first trip. My wife sent a very nice email to Escape and I followed up with a picture of what was left after losing it. A PO had modified the mount which made it weaker, yet Escape still offered to go half towards new tire, mount, and cover. Now THAT is customer service.

Adrian

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Carol H

I think a better question in regards to determining if there is an issue with the tire clearance or not is to confirm that the axle manufacture Dexter says the min. tire clearance should be. Its my understanding that Dexter specifies a min. of 3" of clearance with their torflex axle. Thats on a fully loaded trailer. Which is why you would be hard pressed to find a current fiberglass trailer manufacture that does not build with at least that and in most cases twice that and more.

"Allow 3" bump clearance from full load". At about 2 1/2", Trillium missed that line. What is the Parkliner measurement? Raz

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by P. Raz

"Allow 3" bump clearance from full load". At about 2 1/2", Trillium missed that line.

Perhaps that and a few other quality and well documented customer service issues is why that particular Trillium factory/company that built yours had a very short shelf life as well

[Raz]

"it's like Deja-Vu, all over again." Yogi Berra

[Steve Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Come on Parkliner, do what's right. You NEED to fix this...

ParkLiner should do the right thing as Oliver did when they discovered an issue in ALL the original 2007-2008 17 footers sold with a 3500 pound Axle. Even though at that time they had suspended their trailer production, they recalled every unit, replaced the axles with 5200 pound ratings and outfitted everyone with 3 new upgraded 15" wheels and tires. The new wheels were 6 bolt pattern to accommodate the larger brakes that were on the larger axles. I'm sure this this was expensive for Oliver and fixing the tire rubbing issues with Parkliner would be too, but ParkLiner should man up and do whatever it takes to make their existing units safe and problem free and most of all, their customers HAPPY. THEN they can work on the solution to keep future units from having the same problems.

[Mike Magee]

I have seen other companies skimp on what they would do for their customers, and quite often their motivation was a tight cash flow. Just a possibility.

[deryk]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

I have seen other companies skimp on what they would do for their customers, and quite often their motivation was a tight cash flow. Just a possibility.

I have a suspicion that this is part of it. I can understand it if your trying to keep your head above water so the company stay afloat that pulling your guys off of production to make warranty repairs. But they need to be honest with the customer and tell them... We will make the repairs but can't afford to hold up incoming business which pays the salaries and rent...fall and winter is probably a slower time of the year for them then spring/summer.

If they were up front and honest about it...put it in writing before Frank put money out of his wallet for a condo for a week...that fell through, then drive down there 700 some miles, fly back home...then a week later fly back down pick it up find out on his own they didn't make the repairs...nor the rest of the upgrades they promised...find out they broke the lock on his bathroom door and didn't fix it. That is shitty. Communication is key...no one likes feeling like they are being left in the dark.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Parkliner's business model is flawed. They need to read Les Schwab's Book "Les Schwab, Pride in Performance: Keep it going"

Les Schwab build a tire retail empire in the North West with outstanding customer service. He understood that make the customers happy would keep them coming back and their friends and relatives would become customers too. Poor customer service is a sure way to kill a company.

Parkliner seems to deserve all the negative publicity along with the F rating from BBB.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Parkliner seems to deserve all the negative publicity along with the F rating from BBB.

I bet there are at least 50 Parkliner owners that would disagree.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Huck

I bet there are at least 50 Parkliner owners that would disagree.

I believe it was PT Barnum that had a pretty famous quote that seems to fit.

[RogerDat]

If you happened to have been following the situation with Market Basket stores the ousted CEO was noted for saying "We are not in the grocery business we are in the customer service business." The employee and customer loyalty from that attitude really pays in the long run.

The thing I don't understand is if smaller tires & battery move were all that was being done why would anyone be expected to drive 700 miles to get the work done? That could have been done locally with less hassle and probably not much greater expense for the company???

I don't think the people that like their PL are doing so because they are getting the wool pulled over their eyes. Even Frank says he likes the camper but that in his experiences the company is falling short in customer service & communication dept.

The company will work things out or not, improve in the areas that need it, or not. There have been a lot of conflicting posts about customer experience with multiple companies. Some reported that "their" company were great folks to do business with others saying the same company was awful.

You purchase something from a small company you avoid the overseas call center and bureaucracy but there may be some trade offs, if the small company is a start up then you should assume you are taking even more risk.

I once called Scamp to order some parts and was told the parts guy was on vacation, not going to happen with General Trailer company. On the other hand when in a later call I explained I really needed some information to order the parts I ended up talking to the owner who looked up rivet sizes for a 35 year old trailer. Doubt rivets are a high profit item. So do I slam them for making me wait? Or applaud them for being helpful? It is what it is and if it bugged me enough I could sell the Scamp, I like the thing so I don't and accept that I made that choice.

[Wallo]

I don't have a ParkLiner, but a Scamp. Is Scamp a GREAT unit? No, but it's good enough to take camping. Everything works, it tows nicely, and there no design flaws that concern me enough not to use it. Would I buy another? No. Because it is cheaply made, shortcuts were taken, and not enough thought given to the layout. So far, have not had need for Scamp service, I can get that locally. Next trailer that might be in my future would be a used 15' Escape B if one becomes available. I think their customer service is A+. That could be because they use their own products and see first hand what works and what doesn't. If the Escape is elusive, i could be tempted with a new T@B CS-S. But, ParkLiner is nowhere on my list because of the spotty customer service they provide. I don't want to be left out in the cold because they are short handed, not enough money to cover the repair, or too busy. Good news travels fast, but bad news travels twice as fast.

[accrete]

Originally Posted by Steve Outlaw

...fixing the tire rubbing issues...ParkLiner should man up and do whatever it takes to make their existing units safe and problem free and most of all, their customers HAPPY.

For whatever it is worth... and of course your millage may vary... The wheel well fix for our Parkliner #35 (via Tom's blueprints and paid for by PL) was just a bit over $1200 done by a professional marine repair and boat yard in my town on the Oregon Coast. As i've said elsewhere, the job was absolutely perfect! We just got back from another ~500 mile trip and about 60 of that was off road/forestry trails...not a rub in sight.

THAT SAID... i know that Cari and i will probably have a pro-upfitter lift the trailer. It soooo cries out for a lift when you see it on some forestry road pulled by our lifted AWD van. That and a bit of Rhino-Lining to match if it can be done.

Cheers,
Thom