Covid 19 discussion zone

[gordon2]

I was just re-reading this thread looking for my post and saw...

Originally Posted by DanielAG

The U.S. 1st Amendment gives you the right to choose.

No it does not! It gives you the right to express why you make your choice, to protest if you don't get to exercise your choice, and the right to pray to your God when your loved ones get COVID.

Originally Posted by gordon2

...In other news:

By unanimously vote the South Carolina Supreme Court has struck down the City of Columbia's mask mandate for schools.

And that while at the same time a second school in South Carolina (Fort Mill) is transitioning to remote learning due to COVID-19 cases, the district announced today. Pleasant Knoll Middle School will go remote for all students beginning Friday, Sept. 3 due to a rise in COVID-19 cases that indicate community spread within the school.....

So I thought I would add an update to the SC Schools situation where masks are optional inside the school buildings.

Lancaster County is adjacent (to the east) of the county that Fort Mill schools (mentioned above) is in. At last tally the school system had 588 teachers. Two of them (from one Middle School) died of COVID complications in the last week. A 16 year old student in the same county also died of COVID-19 complications last month. 16% of the students are in quarantine now. There are no plans to close the schools and move to virtual learning.

Families of these three people in Lancaster are now exercising their First Amendment Religious rights.

[floyd]

In the mean time the American Medical Association further instills confidence in their wisdom and advice by recommending that the U.S. government no longer include a designation of gender on birth certificates.
No wonder the general population is getting skeptical and wary.
Perhaps getting medical advice on the internet from people with no credentials might actually be preferable.
Even when the advice is good , its source should be authoritative and not given to coercive nonsense at odds with settled science.

Maybe now is the time to appropriate the obsolete term ...
"my body my choice" from those former "radicals" who no longer dare use it.

As for me and my house...
We will continue to seek medical advice from trusted and experienced medical professionals, who have honorable intentions based on real science, and then to use such advice to make informed choices

[CarlD]

And in the meantime we have weapons to fight this war and win, and get the country moving forward again, without lock downs, masks and social distancing, all it takes is patriotism.

[parmm]

Originally Posted by CarlD

And in the meantime we have weapons to fight this war and win, and get the country moving forward again, without lock downs, masks and social distancing, all it takes is patriotism.

Patriotism is getting the shot in the arm and looking out for your fellow citizens. During my many years in the military I had lots of injections into my arm!!! Today I chalk that up to my patriotism looking out for you and your family!

[floyd]

Originally Posted by parmm

Patriotism is getting the shot in the arm and looking out for your fellow citizens. During my many years in the military I had lots of injections into my arm!!! Today I chalk that up to my patriotism looking out for you and your family!

Those shots were mandatory because you enlisted, and even then it was required that they be properly approved by the FDA.
Looking out for me and my family would include protecting our liberties, not running our lives...(for our own good of course)
Thank you for your service and I hope our military is allowed to continue its honorable mission as you have.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by floyd

..Looking out for me and my family would include protecting our liberties, not [government (I assume)] running our lives...(for our own good of course)...

If it were only for your own good then I would agree.. no one and no government should require you to do anything (or to not do anything) as long as it only affects you. And I do mean anything. If no one else is impacted then you should have unlimited liberty. Do ANYTHING you want as long as it does not affect or endanger me or anyone else.

Good luck with that. We all live in a shared space. How many people have contracted a virus from other than another person? We can argue about the effectiveness of various anti-viral techniques and medications until we are blue in the face. But does anyone actually argue that their individual liberty takes precedence over the health and even the life of others in a Democratic society?

Maybe it should be noted that as illness and death from COVID continues to increase in South Carolina, even before the winter months when such increases are generally expected, the push-back against liberties which conflict with medical advice is growing stronger. This winter will be telling.

[parmm]

Originally Posted by floyd

Those shots were mandatory because you enlisted, and even then it was required that they be properly approved by the FDA.
Looking out for me and my family would include protecting our liberties, not running our lives...(for our own good of course)
Thank you for your service and I hope our military is allowed to continue its honorable mission as you have.

I did not enlist - I WAS DRAFTED - 1967!!! After those 2 years I enlisted. But sure got a lot of shots before they sent me off to Okinawa, Thailand and Vietnam, and during that time was during my draft years!

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by parmm

I did not enlist - I WAS DRAFTED - 1967!!! After those 2 years I enlisted. But sure got a lot of shots before they sent me off to Okinawa, Thailand and Vietnam, and during that time was during my draft years!

Wait a darn minute.. are you trying to tell us that the United States Government forced you to join a military organization, probably against your will and surly ignoring your liberty, then sent you literally halfway across the planet, and for two years or more controlled every aspect of your life while putting you in harms way? Well that’s unbelievable.

But to hear the government also forced you to be injected with with a substance that was well known to prevent disease and death but also had a small chance of some unknown and unlikely long-term effects.. well that we will not stand for!

People forget.. Liberty has a cost.. whether it is in a rice field in Vietnam or at your local doctor's office.

[CarlD]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Wait a darn minute.. are you trying to tell us that the United States Government forced you to join a military organization, probably against your will and surly ignoring your liberty, then sent you literally halfway across the planet, and for two years or more controlled every aspect of your life while putting you in harms way? Well that’s unbelievable.

But to hear the government also forced you to be injected with with a substance that was well known to prevent disease and death but also had a small chance of some unknown and unlikely long-term effects.. well that we will not stand for!

People forget.. Liberty has a cost.. whether it is in a rice field in Vietnam or at your local doctor's office.

Applause

[MyronL]

People who use the "F..." word (Freedom) to justify not getting the vaccine are so full of the "S..." word (stupid).

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Wait a darn minute.. are you trying to tell us that the United States Government forced you to join a military organization, probably against your will and surely ignoring your liberty

Can't wait for the comeback.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Wait a darn minute.. are you trying to tell us that the United States Government forced you to join a military organization, probably against your will and surly ignoring your liberty, .

I don't know your age, but yes we were the last generation to be subject to the draft...If you were born after 1956 then you will never feel the weight of the draft or of your life being the subject of a lottery. whether that is a good thing or not has been the subject of debate for generations.


I would hope that you would not simply put no limits on the infringement of God given rights or liberties if it would provide you with the feeling of safety without risk...if so, well and good for you, but a wise man once said ...

“People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.”


I am an advocate of sacrifice for the common good generally and have done so all of my life, more than some and far less than others, like Pat.


Also, the issue for me has little or nothing to do with Covid 19 or the vaccine.
For this reason, I have not spoken against vaccination nor have I revealed whether I or my family have been vaccinated.

I will say that the leadership on the "pandemic" has been divisive and incompetent at the least.

You seem to think that if a person were to seek medical advice from trusted and experienced medical professionals, who have honorable intentions based on real science, and then to use such advice to make informed choices, that they would then choose wrongly and thus could not be trusted to be responsible and must be forced.

Those who respectfully disagree with your methodology do not necessarily come to a different conclusion on the value or need for precautions for the common good.

I respect your right to an opinion and can even understand that your motives are good, but for the few years I have left on this earth I will hold to and value our heritage of liberty.
No, I will not chase after every strawman argument presented nor will I
cry "FIRE" in a crowded theater. (unless I see the flames)

Finally, I regret that I have been unable to make my point clear to some, and I have not endeavored to offend anyone in that effort.

[tua]

Something that really bothers me is that THE MAJORITY of deaths from covid IN THE WORLD, have been in the United States.

Does anyone else consider this odd considering that we are: 1) not the most populated country of the world, and 2) supposed to be the most advanced?

[parmm]

Originally Posted by tua

Something that really bothers me is that THE MAJORITY of deaths from covid IN THE WORLD, have been in the United States.

Does anyone else consider this odd considering that we are: 1) not the most populated country of the world, and 2) supposed to be the most advanced?

I dare say that many of the reporting countries have less that adequate health systems and much of the deaths from Covid 19 go unreported in those countries.

I follow case count in several localities, and am still amazed at the rise in cases over the past month, but yet the hospitalization has not gone up locally. The vaccine is helping. Knowing someone who is working in the Covid ward at a local hospital, their adolescent cases are up, and those cases are quickly shipped out to a regional Children's hospital. Nature seems to be taking care of the over population of our world!

[floyd]

Originally Posted by parmm

I dare say that many of the reporting countries have less that adequate health systems and much of the deaths from Covid 19 go unreported in those countries.

I follow case count in several localities, and am still amazed at the rise in cases over the past month, but yet the hospitalization has not gone up locally. The vaccine is helping. Knowing someone who is working in the Covid ward at a local hospital, their adolescent cases are up, and those cases are quickly shipped out to a regional Children's hospital. Nature seems to be taking care of the over population of our world!

"Darwinian Awards" all around!

[parmm]

Originally Posted by floyd

"Darwinian Awards" all around!

Have you ever been in any of the south east Asian countries or the middle eastern countries? Have you ever passed thru East Germany before the fall of the iron curtain? I have seen those places first hand. I know how the citizen of those places live and know the lack of health care in those countries! Do you? Been there and seen that!

[floyd]

Originally Posted by parmm

Have you ever been in any of the south east Asian countries or the middle eastern countries? Have you ever passed thru East Germany before the fall of the iron curtain? I have seen those places first hand. I know how the citizen of those places live and know the lack of health care in those countries! Do you? Been there and seen that!

Not sure you got my point.
That's understandable, it was a bit arcane.

Anyway...
Your travel to those places can be revealing.
Though its not so much having "been there and seen that" as it is the "take away" that counts.

[slowpat]

If you are going to go around bare faced, in stores, and have a coughing fit, please at least cover your mouth with your arm.

I stopped in quickly at a local store to look for an item. I quickly left after some unmasked man at a counter started coughing hard and was not even trying to cover his mouth. It is just unbelievable here. I can't figure out where these rude people come from.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by slowpat

If you are going to go around bare faced, in stores, and have a coughing fit, please at least cover your mouth with your arm.

I stopped in quickly at a local store to look for an item. I quickly left after some unmasked man at a counter started coughing hard and was not even trying to cover his mouth. It is just unbelievable here. I can't figure out where these rude people come from.

In my experience, everybody is rude in some way, its just the more sensitive you are the more you see it!

I have a book on "rudiphobia" written long ago called...
"Emily Post's book of Etiquette"
I don't even know anybody who has read it!

[Huck]

Originally Posted by jerrybob

A shame we have become political idiots and so divided. The virus is real....it has killed many people and will kill many more. Do what is right.....protect yourself....protect your family and friends....protect others. Shots and masks folks.....be smart.....talk to your doctor.....do what is right.

Why is it the people who have come to a different decision are political idiots?

There is so much conflicting information available, and backed up by scientific studies and scientists, I can argue for or against any position someone decides to take. My personal position is we should have focused on treatment from day 1 and we probably could have saved millions of lives worldwide.

Vaccines for people at high risk and anyone else who wants it and treatment for everyone else.