The unexpected consequences.....

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by gordon2

I see a lot of attention being paid to sanitizing surfaces. I'm no expert but based on what I hear from experts it seems to me that this is little more than a show. After all, transmission of the virus is usually from person to person. Evidence of transmission from surfaces seems to be almost non-existent. And even if surfaces are a concern, what good does it do it sanitize a surface if they very next person to touch it is a carrier? I even saw where a public pool was supposed to sanitize the hand rail at the steps into the water a few times a day. Really? So people get in the water which has chlorine to kill germs. Then with their hands wet with pool water they grab the rail, and thats the threat? But if it makes you feel its safe to open the pool, bath house, etc.. then I guess its good for business.

Read today’s post on the Niagara Wine Escape !!
Campgrounds are allowed to open but public restrooms are closed
We are running into this issue where the campgrounds are open but the restrooms , showers , toilets , drinking fountains , water hydrants, & dump stations are closed
If this information is available at the time of making reservations then fine but when the rules change at a moments notice thats a different story

[slowpat]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

Seems to me as someone who used to work wearing all sorts of safety equipment including masks of different types for 8 to 10 hours a day. Won't say they are exactly pleasant in a 90 degree plus factory environment or construction site. Especially the heavy duty rubber ones with canister filters. I don't find wearing a simple blue disposable mask or cloth mask in an air conditioned store or for the brief time I'm pumping gas to be too burdensome. Don't really have much sympathy for those who claim they are "bad" for you.

Ask any welder with a hair cover, shield, full leather apron, leather gauntlets in a shop without AC during summer about uncomfortable safety equipment. Of course his goal is to protect himself and self preservation and self protection is generally a stronger motivator than protecting others from a nebulous threat.

In the case of this virus by wearing a mask you are protecting others but also to some extent protecting yourself. Perhaps not giving yourself a large measure of protection from others but some.

I find it hard at times to understand how people I am pretty sure would step up to protect or help others find wearing a mask somehow offensive even though it is clearly an act to protect others. I can only assume that despite well over 125,000 having died they are still being convinced the situation isn't a threat.

Seems simple to me, going out less, and avoiding congested spaces reduces opportunities to spread the virus. Wearing a mask reduces the chances of spreading the virus when you do go out. One has to consider is it better to have a steady but reduced activity level with people taking precautions.? Or better to have a burst of greater activity and less protection that leads again to requiring a lock down? I mean once the hospitals are full then what?

I would hope our leaders would realize that the less the rate of spread the better our society and economy will be doing. At some point activity will drop because of people just deciding it isn't worth it to risk going out. The presence of people in stores not wearing a mask will I think increase the perception of risk associated with going out and reduce economic and social activity.

Then of course people who die or are debilitated in hospital or long term during recovery don't contribute a whole lot to the economy either. And covid patients actually hurt the hospitals bottom line so even health care isn't a growth sector right now.

Seems a no brainer, the doctors offices and hospitals enforce mask wearing and discourage or reduce in person visits as much as possible. The waiting rooms have the chairs removed to enforce social distancing. They check temperatures before allowing you in. One can pretty safely assume these medical facilities have an approach that is based on pretty solid information and assessment.

The problem is telling people to do things they don't want to hear is politically bad for the individual politician, even if those unpopular actions or information are exactly what is required of a leader. Ask any manager who has dealt with tough times in their industry. Sometimes reduced hours or layoffs are the only way to position the company to come back when things turn around.

That was well written and right on. I was thinking the other day how I'd worn a hardhat, boots and other PPE for years. It was part of my job. The hat got heavier when we had to wear wildfire worthy hats. We did it because it was the thing to do, and also wearing a special vest with pockets filled with measuring equipment, a gallon and half of paint or more, drinking water and lunch. We worked in the forests on steep ground going up and down the hills. Ask my knees about this. I did it, liked it, and it didn't pay very well but the retirement is good--except for achy body parts that were injured or abused.

I see no bravery in not wearing a mask. Only stupidity. It hurts nothing to wear one--home made or bought, and it might help slow down this thing.

As of last week, it has finally made it to the local nursing homes in my county. Cases have increased and I will expect more to happen as there were a lot of parties going on over the fourth. People are weak and stupid.

The quicker we buckle down, the quicker we'll see results.

Does anybody long for past when smoking was allowed everywhere?

[John in Santa Cruz]

I attended this online lecture on the current science behind Covid-19 given by a prominent epidemiologist from the local University... He downplayed surface contamination, breathing aerosols is the primary infection route.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVNG5cDL__U

the actual talk starts at about 3:30, and ends about 35 minutes later, then is followed by nearly an hour of Q&A, much of which seemed redundant to me. Warning, Dr Kilpatrick talks fast and to the point and covers a lot of material in those 35 minutes.

[neparker]

Thank both of you. Well put. Stay safe and care about one another's safety.

-- Anne

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Campgrounds are allowed to open but public restrooms are closed

In Nevada, we have the comical situation where campgrounds are open, but the restrooms are closed. So they brought in porta=pottys and placed them in front of the restrooms. Hmmmmm.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Raspy

In Nevada, we have the comical situation where campgrounds are open, but the restrooms are closed. So they brought in porta=pottys and placed them in front of the restrooms. Hmmmmm.

Thats crazy! Or is it? At least that way you wont be sharing the same enclosed space with someone else (who might have the virus). I would not want to be standing at the sink in the bathhouse next to another guy but with the porta-potty I could spray it full of Lysol and wait a few minutes and then go inside and feel I was safe. Its a calculated risk. Right now I have calculated that my best bet is to forgo any optional travel and use my own bathroom.

[Peder_y2k]

Instead of lettuce, use dandelion leaves in salads. The entire dandelion is edible, but the stem should be avoided as it contains chemistry that can cause digestive issues for some people. Don't use dandelions that have been sprayed with insecticide or found on roadside.

[Eggcentric]

You aint seen nothin yet.
At this time locally there are no workers available to pick fruit and veggies, not so bad now but comes December a head of lettuce might be $10++.
My BF, a retired high level microbiologist tells me that unless we all practice distancing, hand washing and wear masks, we are going to have many many more deaths.
When shopping we wear masks, and as we get back into the truck we sanitize our hands with alcohol.............. no not tequila.
Kinda lucky, do a lot of woodworking, and at a local habitat found a good deal on masks, thinking of them as dust masks, turns out they are N 95's which is good.
Wear a mask because you may have covid and be spreading viruses without knowing it.
Until the US has a coherent national plan for dealing with the pandemic it will just get exponentially worse.

If & when we go camping, we will get as far away from others as we can.

[bjsmitty]

I scored a job as a contact tracer. That will really wake you up to the risks we face, and the peril we will be in if stupid people continue to make the most critical decisions about our welfare. I cannot understand why this became a political talking point. Wearing a mask is so simple, so easy, so wise. I am at a loss and very concerned about my communities welfare.

[JaxDan]

"In WA State our governor requires everyone to wear a mask in their house if a visitor-relative or friend enters the house. Also if we drive with anyone that does not live in the house all must wear a mask." ???


Isn't there an amendment in the US constitution that limits the extent government can intrude into our homes???


I remember WA when it had reasonable governors like Dan Evans and Dixie Lee Ray. Glad I left in 2000!



As for TP, during the run on it we had 14 rolls and in the RV section at Walmart they were always stocked with the kind we use for our black tanks. True it cost more but it always was there. The two of us have not used all 14 rolls yet but picked up 12 in late June to keep the cabinet stocked.


BTW, I am looking forward to camping in a state where we are expected to use 'common sense'. We get guidance - not edicts.

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

There will tens of thousands of lightly used, lower end priced RVs for sale in the next few years. That is my prediction. Community colleges ought to be developing curriculums fro enterprising young men and women to become Mobil R V techs. I base this in the already over booked RV service shops and the changing normal of leaving your RV somewhere for weeks where a mobile tech with a flexible schedule setting their own hours could service many owners on site or at home to repair many problems that are minor but need the common park and diagnostic abilities.
Iowa Dave

I totally concur, Dave. We just got back from a week in the Sierras, at 2 different campgrounds. We (the 2 of us + another couple, all with 50+ years camping/fishing/hunting exper.) observed a lot of new campers, and people new to backing rigs, this week (Think: tree branch trimming!). We got to help a few.
E.G.: My buddy is a retired IBEW electrician. The 2 of us helped someone who was having quite a few electrical issues with his almost new trailer.

[Doctor Harold]

Originally Posted by Alex Adams

Yeah that's right! The majority of the scientific community across the world is in on it! 100+ years of research into how diseases spread is all faked! And all of the dead and hospitalized people are faking and being paid to make you submit to the tyranny of wearing a mask!

This is the one of 2 things we can do to support first responders and actually make a difference in how this thing progresses. The other is observing social distancing.

I've been social distancing for many years, and in the past ten years or so I've had maybe one cold.

The biggest consequence of wearing a mask for me has been resisting the compulsion to say: "Stick 'em up!"

[Stogiesaurus]

Originally Posted by DanielAG

It is harmful to the person to wear a mask. If you wear a mask thinking it will protect you, you do not have the right to harm another by telling them they have to wear a mask to protect you=what makes you more important than the person you don't mind hurting?

That’s a myth. If it were true there would be a lot of disabled/dead medical professionals, construction workers, painters...

[PatrickTXFL]

Originally Posted by tua

Plenty of toilet paper and everything else here except this past week I went to three different stores looking for stewed tomatoes. There are none to be found! Stewed tomatoes!

People have been coming from other states this whole shut down time to buy Utah's toilet paper....can you please bring me some stewed tomatoes when you come? I guess it's not a convenient time to be having a stewed tomato craving....ugg, does China make the stewed tomatoes too?

In Florida they stopped most migrant workers that pick the veggies, so they plowed them under. Many of the farms where contracted to restaurant supply chains, all the restaurants were closed so another reason they plowed under veggies. My guess is your stewed tomatoes have been plowed under rather than stewed because the cannery couldn't get tomatoes or was shutdown

[mizterwizard]

I have quiet a few things to say on this subject, not that it matters to anyone.

Yesterday my wife talked to her brother on the phone. He had many of his family over for the 4th and they had additional plans for later in the week. The next day the word came out that one of the relatives at the party was positive. The result? Well, we've already been exposed so let's just go ahead with everything!

We live in a free country which means we all have the freedom to be stupid. And that is just what you have to be not to do all you can to protect yourself and others in this time of national crisis.

One of our biggest problems is a lack of leadership. Since POTUS is so politically motivated and unwilling to be presidential, the leadership has been left to the governors. Each one has a different take on the whole problem so we have 50 different plans. You can find any option you want that agrees with your personal bent.

I did some flying last year so when the virus situation got serious I started getting emails from several airlines about how safe they were with their HEPA filters and such. The thing is, I got a cold on my last flight from the person sitting behind me. Maybe it was COVID??? I don't know because it was just at the start of the disease spread. I'd get tested to see if I was already immunized but where do you go for a test?

In Oregon you can't get plastic shopping bags or straws. It doesn't make a bit of difference to the environment but it is politically viable so they outlawed them. We see lots of the same sort of "science" with COVID. Things that make little or no difference are stressed over things that could really help.

As has been mentioned by others, there is no such thing as unlimited personal freedom. If you are going to enjoy the benefits of a society you have a responsibility to act for the benefit of that society. Just because you are pissed off doesn't mean you can riot and plunder. Just because you don't like to wear clothes doesn't mean you can go naked in public. Freedom of speech doesn't give one the right to say hurtful things. There are lots of restrictions placed on personal freedom that we are used to and don't even notice. Freedom is a complex idea.

Made in China doesn't equal junk. There is lots of junk for sure but there is also lots of good stuff. I went to a Ford dealership and bought a Ford part for a Ford vehicle thinking it aught to be better than the more generic parts sold elsewhere. When I opened the package it said "Made in China". What is one to do?

If we would all get truly serious about the virus for three weeks it would be done. We just won't. Consider what was considered "essential" business. I follow several auction sites. I was considering a purchase from one so I called to see what they were doing about COVID. There answer was that they were an essential business so they were preceding as usual. They were selling wrecked cars. How is that essential?

There is little use contemplating what we should have done. With the current situation I can understand that some people have to go to work or lose everything. I can accept that. Thankfully I'm retired so I don't have to go to work. I figure it is my part to keep myself out of the stream so that those who do have to engage with each other have fewer people to deal with. One solution does not fit all situations. A part of personal freedom is to decide how best to meet the demands of our own lives. That includes doing your best to protect everyone in spite of the rigors or daily life.

There is nothing you can do to make yourself perfectly safe, period. It's is all about percentages. Move to an island and wait it out would be a pretty high percentage measure. Carry on as usual would be a very low percentage solution. Wear a mask, stay home as much as possible, social distance, wash your hands, etc. can yield a lot of protection at minimal cost in time, money and inconvenience. The wise thing to do is to band together and beat this thing back with every weapon we have available.

During the great wars many things were forced on the populace. Things like rationing, conscription, curfews, blackouts, mandated jobs and internment were accepted as necessary evils until better times returned. Wearing a mask is nothing compared to being put in a prison camp because you have slanted eyes. Nobody liked the exigencies of those times but they did it because it was needful.

The main thing to stop the virus is distance. The further the virus has to travel to its next victim the less likely it will make it. Feet matter. Masks matter. Air flow matters. Solar radiation matters. All of these things increase the effective distance. Think of it like the pioneers crossing the plains. Some days things were nice and the might cover 20 miles. Some days things were tough and they could only make a few hundred yards. Let's make it too tough for the virus to cross between us, either by pure distance or by obstruction.

I'll bet most of us now have in our possession at least two gallons of ethanol. It's mixed in with our gasoline. We now use many times as much ethanol as we did 20 years ago. There is no alcohol shortage at all. There is a distribution problem though. We are putting it in our cars, not on our hands.

I've decided I won't go back to normal until there is a vaccine. We really wanted to go play with the grands over the 4th. It was a wrench not to but we stayed home for the benefit of all. I applaud all of those who are doing their part for the benefit of all.

Not to get too melodramatic but in the history of our country there have been millions of us who have given their health or their lives for the benefit of us all. Is it really too much to ask of us to wear a mask for the same reason?

[mizterwizard]

I think we will get serious about the virus when everyone knows someone who has died from it.

Sending kids back to school in the midst of a pandemic is just about the insanest thing we could do.

[Doctor Harold]

As I personally see it, during the pandemic wearing a mask in an environment where physical distancing is less than optimal (for me it's about 15 feet) is a polite thing to do. It's like deodorant: you don't use deodorant for yourself, you use it for the people around you. It's just good manners.

The same goes with hand washing. Studies have shown that a great many people wash their hands after using the toilet only if there is another person in the restroom, but if they think they are alone, they don't bother.

To me, washing one's hands after using the bathroom is a sign of good manners, and smart hygiene. It is not conditional on who might know or not. I would know, and in our pre-pandemic society where handshaking was the norm, I would not want to shake hands with someone who had potential body waste on their hands, nor would I consider it good manners to subject others to mine.

People being what they are, it seems to me those who are lax about hand washing are the most likely to take offense at the suggestion that their hands might not be clean. Perhaps the same mindset is among those who refuse to don a mask.

[redbarron55]

My only problem with the mask (been wearing one since??? I forget now) is that I am out of silver bullets and this indigenous American keeps calling me Kemo sabe.
Science it the only way out of this.
We (meaning the people who run the country now) have been able to ruin the economy, blow the debt out and have the highest infection and death numbers in the world.
WINNING!
Maybe we can get the guy who took the SATs to take over.
Wearing a mask and doing what the health professionals suggest is a sign of respect for our fellow human beings.
Perhaps that is why HE doesn't wear one.

[Terry R.]

Another reason for the lack of inventory on RV sales lots, is the shut down of production in some factories, due to Covid. They have not caught their production up yet.Terry