$25,000 Question!!!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by OneOleMan

The thing I like most about my 4Runner isn't the gas mileage, or the tow capacity, or the comfort. The thing I like most is the son of a gun is paid for.

yup that is always REAL good thing regardless of what the tow vehicle is!

[DeanCHS1980]

Hey, I have not had a car payment for two years!!! That is soooooo nice. However, it is that college tuition for one daughter the last couple of years and two daughters next year that is slowing down our TT & TV purchase!!! That is why I am trying to learn as much now from you folks, so I can be ready to "haul" in a couple of years or so. I have been a college professor for 25 years. I have been a parent paying for college tuition for the last two plus years. Yikes, tuition is EXPENSIVE and that cost does not show up in my salary!!!

[Alf S.]

Hi: DeanCHS1980... I'm with you as for tuition's. Who ever said have all your kids near in ages was nuts. That means they all got to University at the same time. Our first stayed 9 yrs., our second stayed 4 yrs., and our last stayed 4 yrs. SHEESH!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[Franswa]

"pickups, I also agree, will tow a trailer down the road but with reservations. For what they are capable of they are too large and lack precise handling which plays a big part in trailer towing control and stability."

minor point to bring up here...IME the longer the wheelbase of the TV the better the handling/towing....so while it is true that not towing anything the SUVs mentioned have better handling....once you hook a trailer to both of them the longer wheelbase of the truck would mean that both would handle pretty well the same (I think anyways)...and something else....SUVs these days seem to come standard with all kinds of anti-skid or anti-that technology that takes over for/from the driver in certain situations....not a good thing when towing a trailer because the computer doesn't know there's a trailer back there...

I almost had a head-on with a BUS on a snowy road when my back wheels started to slide out some....so I countersteered just a bit to compensate and keep the throttle on...a split second later my "smart" vehicle applied full brake to the front wheel opposite the skid....the result was a violent 90 degree change of direction.....TWICE!!! because I tried to correct that with ooposite countersteer of course (instinct) and again the computer applied full brake to the other front wheel......very scary....it was like somebody else was driving the car

it's sort of ironic that now if it's slippery I have to de-select the antiskid feature built into this car...it comes on by default every time the car is started.....I guess I could just pretend I'm a new driver and just "freeze" when a skid happens because the effect of braking the front inside wheel is pretty much the same as counter steering.....both together though can be big trouble.....Dodge Nitro BTW

happy trails all

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Franswa

minor point to bring up here...IME the longer the wheelbase of the TV the better the handling/towing....so while it is true that not towing anything the SUVs mentioned have better handling....once you hook a trailer to both of them the longer wheelbase of the truck would mean that both would handle pretty well the same (I think anyways).

Suspect it depends on what truck and what small SUV you are comparing. Its been my experience pulling the same trailer with a small SUV and a mid sized truck that the small SUV provided a far more solid tow in all weather conditions. Getting the truck to feel as solid as the small SUV required a fair bit of load adjustment as well as hitch adjustment/change and some added equipment to get it close to the same solid feeling as the SUV had. Oh and I added an anti sway bar just incase I still haven't got it right ;-O

Longer distance from axle to hitch, higher centre of gravity of the truck, lighter back end of the truck that allows the trailer to be able to tug a bit more on the back end of the truck vs. the heavier back end of the SUV in side winds.... may be just some of the reasons for the difference in feel that I have experienced.

[Timber Wolf]

Originally Posted by Franswa

If i'm travelling alone I use one of the beds as designed...2 up, I deploy the mod.

I just visualized Captain Picard saying "Number One, DEPLOY THE MOD".

[Franswa]

your experience truck vs SUV is interesting.....I might have it wrong......all I remember is the shorter the wheelbase the more white knuckle drive it's always been for me.....and your comment about no weight in the back of the PU I can certainly see.....I had a PU long ago that somebody had supersized the rear springs to handle a heavy camper....and that thing was awful to drive empty....just going down to the corner store for some milk!!!

and a correction....I said "because the effect of braking the front inside wheel is pretty much the same as counter steering." that should have been the outside wheel....that's the way the anti-skid works in this Nitro of mine...back end slides out to the right...a few seconds later the right front wheel brakes....it does work but....

BTW Carol....just did (last week) the Pacific Marine Road (Cowichan Lake to Port Renfrew) and had WONDERFUL weather....kids back in school so nobody around...it was lovely and deserted....You been through there yet/before?

[MC1]

Wheelbase, center of gravity, suspension (independent is preferred), shocks, springs, tires, hitch type and accuracy of set up, type, size, and weight of trailer, etc are all factors that determine the handling and towing qualities of a TV.

Two top tow pro's recently published towing articles on their all time best tow vehicle experience. One of Carol's top pics the VW T-Reg was one guys favorite, and a Jaguar sedan was the other. Both did the tow test with large trailers. These vehicle have relatively short wheelbases but the other factors came into play in a big way to over shadow the wheelbase number.

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi All,

Carol H, I have a bro-in-law that is a huge Airstream and vintage Avion fan. He just finished restoring a late 80s Avion about 30 feet long. His dream tow is a Touareg TDI. He currently tows with Ford Excursion with a modified diesel and a custom bumper that weighs 700 lbs. It is a big honkin' tug! I can also see a Toyota Highlander being a great tow. My DW and I bought our 17 y/o daughter a 2005 Honda Pilot a few months ago. We bought it for a GREAT price. As it turns out, it is a really impressive vehicle even with 135,000 miles. My DW and I are threatening our 17 y/o that we may commandeer it since it has the highest tow rating of our three vehicles. She is not impressed!!! Regarding wearing high heels, a bunch of us male faculty and staff wore high heels and "Walked a Mile in Her Shoes" to raise money and promote awareness regarding Domestic Violence. Great cause. On a lighter note, walking a mile in high heels was BRUTAL!

Wayne, my DW and I had a 2000 Mazda MPV that we drove for nearly 10 years while the girls were young. We LOVED it. I see that many folks are towing with Oddys (almost bought it in 2000 rather than the MPV). In any case, very cool to see that a minivan can be used as a tug for some of these FG rigs. I have always been a minivan fan in terms of its versatility.

Alfred, LOL, you got me beat. That is a whole lot of tuition!!!

Wayne, Francois, and Carol, informative discussion regarding tow vehicles in terms of cars, SUVs, and/or trucks. Lots to think about.

Tim, I like it!!! Working in a little Jean Luc Picard. Nice!

Well, I guess I will "Make It So" and go to bed!!!

Dean

[EllPea in CA]

Originally Posted by OneOleMan

The thing I like most about my 4Runner isn't the gas mileage, or the tow capacity, or the comfort. The thing I like most is the son of a gun is paid for.

Yup. Me too my Volvo!

[rdickens]

Us too with the 2011 Honda CRV that was the best tug that we had
when we bought our Scamp13.

For my wife and I, the $$,$$$ question was "Will we still like RV camping
or will we "flame out" and what is our financial risk tolerance if we do
"flame out".

By "flame out", I mean that we and many of our friends had experienced
early excitement and grand dreams about new boats, home organs, new
airplanes or pilot ratings, or about motorhome ownership and becoming
"full-time RVers". After a short while, the boat, organ, airplane, and/or motorhome were all sitting around unused.

Sometimes, after the initial excitement wears off, the realities of some
types of ownership and/or travel can cause the dream to fade ......
and sometimes it actually gets better.

Although our CRV was fairly "tow weight constrained", we decided to
minimize our investment (and therefore our risk) and get a lightweight
Scamp13 trailer and see if RV travel and exploration was as much fun
as we remembered from our earlier StarCraft pop-up camper days.

Although it is a small trailer and we do sometimes get a little bit of
three-foot-itis, we have made lots of trips across the country in it
and I'm happy to confirm that we really do still enjoy RV camping.
We don't seem to be too close to "flaming out" just yet.

We have now upgraded at least one of our cars to a more powerful
tug that could handle a 16/17 foot trailer. Perhaps, now with a lot of
experience under our belts, we may decide to upgrade to a larger trailer
in the future ..... or not? Still TBD!

Just sayin' .....

As always, YMMV.

Ray

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by OneOleMan

The thing I like most about my 4Runner isn't the gas mileage, or the tow capacity, or the comfort. The thing I like most is the son of a gun is paid for.

The same reason we towed with our 2004 Honda CRV, it was paid for...

We really didn't expect small trailer towing to last long, just a trip thru Newfoundland and across Labrador.

"I promise honey we'll only own it for two months". Two months turned into 8 years. The CRV towed 16 foot trailers all over North America on a wonderful adventure.

Using what you have is a tradition.

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi Ray, Norm, and Ginny,

Great comments regarding "flaming out" and keeping the initial investment in the TT and Tug to a reasonable minimum. That Oliver Elite II with a brand new Ford F150 Crew Cab looks mighty nice, but not so good if one is not using it a year after purchasing it.

There is a lot to be said for buying small and used to get one's feet wet in order to figure out if this is a longer term lifestyle choice that fits.

For most, we have to make choices and compromises in terms of our toys. We can't have it all. Maybe that is a good thing that we have to reflect before buying???

Even though it will not happen right away, I still really like that new Ollie 23.5 Elite II and a new PU!!!

Take care,

Dean

[Bob Miller]

With the OP budget for trailer and TV at $25k, almost any new TV is pretty much ruled out. There is a new Ford F-150 version that starts at $60K
Ford Announces Nearly $60K-to-Start Limited F-150

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by DeanCHS1980

Hi Ray, Norm, and Ginny,

Great comments regarding "flaming out" and keeping the initial investment in the TT and Tug to a reasonable minimum. That Oliver Elite II with a brand new Ford F150 Crew Cab looks mighty nice, but not so good if one is not using it a year after purchasing it.

There is a lot to be said for buying small and used to get one's feet wet in order to figure out if this is a longer term lifestyle choice that fits.

For most, we have to make choices and compromises in terms of our toys. We can't have it all. Maybe that is a good thing that we have to reflect before buying???

Even though it will not happen right away, I still really like that new Ollie 23.5 Elite II and a new PU!!!
Dean

Dean, We started spending $900 for a 25 year old stick built, slightly leaky Sunline 15.5, just for a 2 month trip. We spent a few 100 dollars getting it ready for our 4000 mile trip across Labrador, expecting that at the end of the trip we'd sell it. We came from a motorhome and laughed about the tight quarters before we started. By the end of the Labrador road we were saying "Wow that was fun", WE kept going for 8 more months and did a loop of the USA. Since then it's been little trailers. WE sold the motorhome.

For us, and I know everyone's different, a small rig and small tow vehicle worked just fine. If I hadn't wanted to drive across Labrador we'd probably still be traveling in a motorhome and still be the happy travelers. It's really about what the travel brings, not the rig or the tow vehicle.

Safe travels,

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi Bob, Norm, and Ginny,

Bob, nearly $60,000 as the point of entry for a Ford F150 Limited, YIKES! My mother- and father-in-law just sold their 2004 Chevy Suburban to my nephew for $6,000. Given I knew the history of the vehicle, I would have bought it if I was a little closer to buying a TT. It is more rig than I need, but it would have been fine for a $6,000 tug. Good for my nephew!!!

Norm and Ginny, I LOVE your perspective on RVing and traveling. I agree that it is ultimately the intangibles of traveling and the memories that are more important than the medium for transporting ourselves. I think I caught the RV bug for reasons related to this. As my DW and I move toward 53, move toward an empty nest, and feel the desire to live more simply and minimally, the opportunity to create memories rather than collecting more stuff resonates with us. I also "figuratively" see RVing as getting to the point in life where my DW and I begin to "own" more of our time rather than the hectic, stressful, fast-paced nature of life as repsonsible professionals, parents, and adult children caring for elderly parents. Despite not owning an RV at this point, my DW and I enjoy talking and dreaming about not just the RV, but the travel, the time, and the opportunity to relax and enjoy creating more memories.

Take care,

Dean

[Glenn Baglo]

Get a Bigfoot like this one and you don't need a tow vehicle.

[DeanCHS1980]

Hey Glenn,

Ha! True, I would not need a Tug, but then I would need a Toad!

Take care,

Dean

[honda03842]

Dean,
I think time is a huge benefit. We originally bought an RV to travel not realizing the unintended consequences of health, freedom and time. The three were all important but particularly time. Time is limited to each of us. Of course I love the memories of places seen, but it's the time together, the time to think, the freedom of our actions.

I would say becoming an empty nester was significant, I'm now seeing it in our own children, seeing the changes in their lives. In a sense it's a regression to pre marriage, a time for attention to each other. (Ginny still talks about going on dates.) It seems in a marriage there's a growing apart that happens, you each spend the bulk of your day apart, your thoughts may often be on your job or some other personal focus.

For us RVing encouraged change.

[DeanCHS1980]

Norm and Ginny,

Norm, once again your comments regarding time and the empty nest resonate with me. At this point in my career (roughly 30 years down and 10 years to go), assuming and accumulating more responsibilities no longer motivates me as much as it once did. Instead I find myself looking more to "owning" my time as the greater motivator.

Also, I appreciate your comments about the empty nest. As the empty nest looms, I find myself thinking about one of my favorite classes that I taught in the early 1990s. I taught a university course on "courtship and marriage". It was a ton of fun to teach. Romantic 20 yearolds would sometimes be a little disappointed in the research related to happiness during the married years: couples are "happier" before children and then once children leave the nest. This does not mean that couples are unhappy with kids in the nest, only that "marriage" happiness has to be balanced with this focus, energy, and time to raise children and the happiness associated with these activities. The empty nest is an opportunity to "regress to premarriage". I like your comment. I can see where RVing and travel could enhance this "regression" for some.

Take care,

Dean