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01-26-2010, 08:49 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 13 ft Trillium (USA)
Posts: 180
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I forgot to put Rv antifreeze in my tank and flush the system before the cold set in....as soon as temps got warm again I put the anti freeze in the tank and turned on my pump for the water faucet (the only plumbing I have, no bathroom, hot water heater,etc.) It ran through nicely and the antifreeze, pink in color, filled the tub but woundn't drain out. Looks like my system is free of ice except the drain. Will the antifreeze eventually melt that ice away and out the drain? Could I have damaged anything by not doing this sooner?
Thanks for any help here...Lloyd
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01-26-2010, 10:45 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 Scamp 16 ft / 2003 Durango
Posts: 696
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Look under the trailer and see if you can see the trap from the tub. If you can see it look closely for cracks.
And also look in any other low spots in the drain line.
Bill K
Toledo
Quote:
I forgot to put Rv antifreeze in my tank and flush the system before the cold set in....as soon as temps got warm again I put the anti freeze in the tank and turned on my pump for the water faucet (the only plumbing I have, no bathroom, hot water heater,etc.) It ran through nicely and the antifreeze, pink in color, filled the tub but woundn't drain out. Looks like my system is free of ice except the drain. Will the antifreeze eventually melt that ice away and out the drain? Could I have damaged anything by not doing this sooner?
Thanks for any help here...Lloyd
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01-26-2010, 10:49 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 13 ft Trillium (USA)
Posts: 180
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Quote:
Look under the trailer and see if you can see the trap from the tub. If you can see it look closely for cracks.
And also look in any other low spots in the drain line.
Bill K
Toledo
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Bill, I will do that...I just checked the sink basin and it hasn't gone down an inch...still full of antifreeze,,,would that mean the drain system is blocked with ice? I can't understand how there would be ice when the water in the tank passed through to the faucet without a problem.
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01-26-2010, 10:54 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1974 Boler 13 ft (Neonex/Winnipeg)
Posts: 3,008
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I agree with Bill, based on what you've posted. The problem with pipes freezing is that water expands as it freezes. Since it sounds like there was frozen water in the drain, then there is the potential that expansion damaged a pipe or fitting.
At this point, the damage is probably done, but I might want to get under there and thaw things so that the anti-freeze will flow in (and to see what damage there might be). If it were March, I might say just to wait (and you still could just wait, of course).
If you do go under to thaw things, be aware that fires do get started by people who use a torch or etc. I would recommend either a hairdryer or perhaps a hot washcloth wrapped around the frozen spot. Of course you can use a heatgun too, but you have to be more careful and there is the potential to wreck something.
Since you have no bathroom, when you say "tub," do you mean sink basin? I can't remember how the Trillium sink drain is set up, but you may have a flexible hose instead of a rigid pipe. Maybe you got lucky and there is a frozen clog but no break.
In spring you'll want to double check for leaks in the tank, lines, and pump leading up to the faucet as well, just to be sure everything made it through okay.
Raya
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01-26-2010, 11:08 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 13 ft Trillium (USA)
Posts: 180
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Raya, it's a 13 ft. and the "tub" is really a small sink basin. I will check it out as closely as I can. Hopefully, like you said, maybe I have a drain hose instead of a pipe. I just couldn't figure out why it wouldn't drain when the ice should have thawed after a week of 40s and 50s but then again it may take a whlle for that to thaw. thanks for your advice....Lloyd
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01-26-2010, 11:23 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Trailer: 16 ft Casita Spirit Deluxe
Posts: 1,043
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sounds like your "P" Trap is frozen in the sink..... that trap hold water in it to keep gasses from the grey tank entering back into your living area..... If your handy just put a bucket under the "P" trap and take it off and thaw it out inside the house..... you could also just take a blow dryer and direct it at the lower section of the trap for maybe 20 minutes.... it cost nothing to try this.
Joe
__________________
Joe and Linda
2013 Casita SD
Dodge Ram 4x4
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01-26-2010, 11:25 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Trailer: 16 ft Casita Spirit Deluxe
Posts: 1,043
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Oops..... Double Hit
__________________
Joe and Linda
2013 Casita SD
Dodge Ram 4x4
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01-26-2010, 11:54 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 13 ft Trillium (USA)
Posts: 180
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Quote:
Oops..... Double Hit
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Joe, I have a heat gun....I will do it....and be careful not to overheat anything...thanks
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01-26-2010, 12:06 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Trailer: 16 ft Casita Spirit Deluxe
Posts: 1,043
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Lloyd...
Hope it works.... post back.
If you do decide to take the "P"Trap off it's just a little outer nut on each end of the trap that you can usually turn by hand...its very easy.
good luck and in the future when you winterize be sure to put about a cup of the pink stuff in the drain to fill the trap with RV antifreeze. It's good to get a little in the grey tank so the outside dump valve doesn't freeze up
Joe
__________________
Joe and Linda
2013 Casita SD
Dodge Ram 4x4
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01-26-2010, 12:52 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 13 ft Trillium (USA)
Posts: 180
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Joe, once the p trap is clear, should I run the faucet for a few minutes, turn it off and just leave the antifreeze in the grey water tank and plumbing system? Should I drain the grey tank and empty it after this procedure or should I leave the antifreeze in the system until spring? As I may have mentioned it is our first RV, haven't had it a year yet and never had to winterize anything before. I knew I needed to do it last summer but forgot completely about it since it's on an RV lot away from my home.
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01-26-2010, 02:34 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1974 Boler 13 ft (Neonex/Winnipeg)
Posts: 3,008
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Lloyd, if you have a "typical" Trillium 13 with no bathroom, do you even have a "grey" tank? That would be a tank for storing sink drain water, btw.
I think normally you would just have a water tank (for your water supply), a pump to supply the sink, and a drain from the sink to the outdoors. Of course there would be piping/hosing in between those components.
You may not even have a trap, but that depends on the installation. You don't really need a trap if you have no grey tank, as there are no odors to avoid (i.e. no smelly grey or black tank).
I would just have a look up under the kitchen sink drain to see what is there, and give it a shot with a hair dryer (less likely to burn something with that than a heat gun).
The main idea is that anywhere you have water, you have to have antifreeze mixed in with it (or pure antifreeze). If you can empty anything of water completely, you are fine (air will not damage anything if it freezes). So, if things are *for sure* empty of water, you don't need to put antifreeze in. Anything that does or might have water in it, gets antifreeze, which you do not remove until freezing is past.
I have often put in antifreeze, then blown the system out. That way I have all or mostly air, but any liquid that does remain will not freeze. I prefer this to having tanks sitting full of fluids.
You have to make sure to flush well in spring, because the antifreeze will foam and taste funny (why I would rather empty a tank if possible).
Raya
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01-26-2010, 02:59 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 13 ft Trillium (USA)
Posts: 180
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Raya, shows you what I know about the term gray tank.....I have a tank that only supplies water to the kitchen sink for washing dishes,etc. It's just a water supply tank....I am about to go visit the Trillium and see what is under the basin....I will get back to you later and please check this posting in a couple of hours....thanks...Lloyd
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01-26-2010, 03:11 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Trailer: 16 ft Casita Spirit Deluxe
Posts: 1,043
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Quote:
Joe, once the p trap is clear, should I run the faucet for a few minutes, turn it off and just leave the antifreeze in the grey water tank and plumbing system? Should I drain the grey tank and empty it after this procedure or should I leave the antifreeze in the system until spring? Drain it because you diluted the rv antifreeze with water....it's not like car anti freeze... when emptied just put enough rv antifreeze in to go thru the P trap and have some down at the dump valve if you have a grey tank.....this will protect the dump valve. less than a 1/4 gallon total
Joe
As I may have mentioned it is our first RV, haven't had it a year yet and never had to winterize anything before. I knew I needed to do it last summer but forgot completely about it since it's on an RV lot away from my home.
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By the way Raya has good advice and there might not even be a grey tank which may or may not have a P trap then..... If your not sure what a P trap is look under any sink in your house and that bent thing like a sideways S shape is the P trap
__________________
Joe and Linda
2013 Casita SD
Dodge Ram 4x4
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01-26-2010, 04:08 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2007 Casita
Posts: 3,428
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Lloyd, if you have a grey/black tank you would have had to empty it as some point. So if there is a grey/black tank the sewer connection on the outside (usually) road side of the trailer where you would hook up to a sewer dump to empty.
If not, I would think it's like Raya and Joe suggested, a hose that just drains.
But I have a question?
If that's how his water drains away aren't you suppose to catch that water and dispose of it correctly rather than letting it go on the ground?
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01-26-2010, 05:35 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 13 ft Trillium (USA)
Posts: 180
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Folks, I just got back from checking under the sink basin. Yes, it is only a one inch black plastic hose that fits snugly to a coupler to the outside drain. No P Trap. I also found my problem. The black hose was free of ice and the only place it could have froze up would be the few inches before it exits to the outside. There must be plug of ice there which prevents the sink basin from draining out. Now that I have antifreeze in my vinyl hose lines and the tank (water supply, not grey tank) I guess I just wait until that thaws out or I heat it up. I don't think, with my rig, that I damaged anything....thanks for all your help with this....Lloyd in Ohio
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01-26-2010, 05:50 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 Scamp 16 ft / 2003 Durango
Posts: 696
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The only thing that could be hurt is the fitting going through the wall.
Is there a cap on that fitting on the outside ? It is usually a male hose fitting.
Bill K
Quote:
Folks, I just got back from checking under the sink basin. Yes, it is only a one inch black plastic hose that fits snugly to a coupler to the outside drain. No P Trap. I also found my problem. The black hose was free of ice and the only place it could have froze up would be the few inches before it exits to the outside. There must be plug of ice there which prevents the sink basin from draining out. Now that I have antifreeze in my vinyl hose lines and the tank (water supply, not grey tank) I guess I just wait until that thaws out or I heat it up. I don't think, with my rig, that I damaged anything....thanks for all your help with this....Lloyd in Ohio
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01-26-2010, 05:57 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1974 Boler 13 ft (Neonex/Winnipeg)
Posts: 3,008
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Lloyd, my trailer has a similar hose setup. A couple of times when I've been using the trailer the temperature has dipped down into the teens or 20s, and the drain line has stopped draining. I heated up some water on the stove, dipped a rag in it (wore rubber gloves), and then wrapped the rag around the hose and held it there for 30 seconds or so. Voila!
I'm not sure I would just leave it, because if you have a number of freeze/thaw cycles coming into spring, you might cause damage that is not there now.
Robin, yes, these days you are supposed to catch your grey water. I've seen two different setups on 1970s Bolers:
1) Black plastic hose comes out of sink drain and "disappears" into wheelwell. This just continues on and dumps on the ground under the trailer (you would have to put a basin underneath to catch the water).
2) Hose comes out of sink drain, goes through an elbow, and then goes into garden hose fitting on sidewall of trailer. This way you can either let the grey water drain out and run down the side of the trailer, or you can attach a garden hose and run it away or into a container.
Raya
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01-26-2010, 07:49 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 13 ft Trillium (USA)
Posts: 180
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Quote:
The only thing that could be hurt is the fitting going through the wall.
Is there a cap on that fitting on the outside ? It is usually a male hose fitting.
Bill K
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Bill, there is a cap and it is a male hose fitting with a brass screen inside of it. Behind it, I am guessing, is the ice plug.
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01-26-2010, 07:52 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 13 ft Trillium (USA)
Posts: 180
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Raya, I will try your trip rather than wait until spring........once I remove the ice plug, should I run antifreeze down the line and then cap it? Lloyd
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01-26-2010, 08:03 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1974 Boler 13 ft (Neonex/Winnipeg)
Posts: 3,008
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Yes, but....
If you want to add anti-freeze, I would go in the opposite order. The thing is, the "cap" should be the lowest point, so you would have to be stuffing anti-freeze "up" into the pipe.
I would thaw, drain, then cap it. And then pour a bit of antifreeze "down the drain" in your kitchen sink. The anti-freeze should lodge in the low point, by the cap, where your ice clot is now. That should take care of it, and no worries about foaming or off tastes in the spring from that location (assuming you don't drink out of the drain ).
Then just don't pour any more water into the drain until spring, so you don't dilute the trapped anti-freeze.
Or, if you are sure there are no low points (in other words, no place for water to be trapped), you could leave it as is.
Raya
PS: I'm not sure what the screen is for. Is there any chance you are confusing the inlet (where you would hook up a hose for "city" water) for the drain? That shouldn't be the case if you have a male, because the city water inlet should be female, but I'm just wondering because of the screen. Another possibility is that former owners left the cap off for the winter, thereby allowing the drain to be "open" and not vulnerable to freezing, and the screen was to keep pests out. I would think otherwise the screen would clog with the usual sink "debris."
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