Actually Having Inventory!

[Cathy P.]

Originally Posted by trainman

Our new 2019 Ram has been a perfect vehicle for towing our 2019 Oliver, I have meet many new Ram owners that are totally happy with their new 2019 Rams that tow many different travel trailers. I guess someone got a bad one, or did they.

trainman

With vehicles (and about everything today) including RVs, there is often a lemon or two (or many more), even with parts/appliances/tires/etc. depending on what batch they came out of, thus the reason for recalls on such.

I would say that anyone who has had a major problem has gotten a "bad" one, and is certainly entitled to their opinion on the situation. I am familiar with Dodge so....................and the RV industry.............

[thrifty bill]

On the RAM I am more interested in reports after 10 years and after 150,000 miles or more. To be fair this is on any tow vehicle.

My ten year old F150 doesn’t qualify yet as I only have 125,000 miles on it, so far so good.

[Cathy P.]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

On the RAM I am more interested in reports after 10 years and after 150,000 miles or more

I feel the same way about trailers!

[vin]

This was my SEVENTH Dodge truck, the first purchased in 1985 from the same dealership as the last. Never a problem with any. I still own my 2015 Ram Hemi. I loved my 2019 for 12,500 mi. We did not like sitting along the hwy. 500 mi. from home waiting for it to start running. 4 times we went to the garage they said it ran too intent. In arbitration Ram corporate rep. said it ran to intent so no problem. Corporate also reminded me it was under warranty, for what it is worth. Neither offered anything to fix it which was all I wanted and deserved. They are all great until there is a problem the computer can't tell them how to fix then it becomes yours to fix and they are done with it. Ram does not have your back. We are in our seventies with a great camper that will long outlive us but we need a t.v. to pull it. We thought we had it. It is gone now and we have a truck built by a co. that should we have a problem [previous experience] they will take care of it immediately. I have the cast aluminum Ram from the hood of my 1985 on a piece of mahogany in my living room. I totaled it. I love my Rams.

[John in Santa Cruz]

RAM is, of course, Fiat now.... "Fix It Again, Tony!"

[trainman]

When posters post and describing the complains are not mentioned in the post it's hard to see where the problem is. When someone said, the manufacture would not handle the complain, or even offer to deal with it I wonder just where the problem really might be. There are Lemon Laws out there and you have to go through the process that the manufacture and the law has setup for the process to start.

trainman

[Cathy P.]

I thought when a vehicle/RV has a warranty from the manufacturer, that the manufacturer should fix the issue as that is how things used to work, and if the company refuses to "honor" their warranty, then one takes the legal action route.

I think that having stock inventory on these molded RVs will give people a little more time to take a look at them, give them a serious going over and make better decisions as to quality of materials and workmanship. Yeah, I know about the programs that some manufacturers run where an owner shows their unit, but having worked for a direct sales manufacturer who did this, well, it isn't my first choice in making a decision.

Stock inventory will be a win for the consumer, and heat up the competition! After that "thing" with Lil' Snoozy and the disappearing advance down payments, this will be even more appealing to some.

Also, put me in the Ford camp after dealing with terminal rust on my Durango. My dad was a Chevrolet man. The debate will never end on what molded fiberglass trailer is best or which vehicle manufacturer is the best. I think they all kind of suck these days in their own ways, "lesser of the evils".

[Jon in AZ]

I’m not sure lemon law always apply to RV’s. It depends on the state. Consumer protections are generally more robust for passenger vehicles than “luxury” products like boats and RVs.

Legal action generally has to reach a fairly high threshold before a lawyer will be interested in taking it on. There have been some well-publicized cases involving large motorhomes that were in the shop for warranty repairs for most of the first 1-2 years of ownership. Obviously the owners had deeper pockets than the average RV buyer, and probably time on their hands.

[John in Santa Cruz]

indeed, "Lemon" laws only pertain to cars, and even relatively generous ones require the car to have been in the shop multiple times within the first year or two of being sold new, and are still hard to collect on.

[Cathy P.]

Towable RV Lemon Laws: https://rvnerds.com/resources/towabl...laws-by-state/ Not many states have adopted it though, but I suspect with all the issues, more will as people get fed up.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Cathy P.

Towable RV Lemon Laws: https://rvnerds.com/resources/towabl...laws-by-state/ Not many states have adopted it though, but I suspect with all the issues, more will as people get fed up.

that site should have someone familar with legalese go over their suppositions.

for instance, their listing on California claims that 'motor vehicle' is ambiguous, yet on the linked page it clearly states...

(e) (2.) “New motor vehicle” means a new motor vehicle that is bought or used primarily for personal, family, or household purposes. .... “New motor vehicle” includes the chassis, chassis cab, and that portion of a motor home devoted to its propulsion, but does not include any portion designed, used, or maintained primarily for human habitation

which most obviously excludes any sort of trailer, as well as any part of a Motorized RV that isn't the actual drive train.

[ShelbyM]

Weird thread creep. Was RAM the connector between RV inventory and Lemon Laws?

[vintageracer]

With RVIA reporting "Towable Sales" in 2019 was 16% LOWER than 2018 for the RV Industry as a whole it's not surprising that fiberglass trailer sales as a whole might also be off from previous high's as the appetite for RV's as a whole Kools off from the previous record year that was 2018!

The fiberglass trailer manufacturers are no different than the RV big boys in that they also in some situations stepped up production capabilities to meet the higher sales volumes and now the fiberglass manufacturer's also have excess manufacturing capacity along with cancellations of previously ordered units.

Given the "Cottage Industry" size of the fiberglass trailer industry this excess inventory will not last long as these small manufacturer's will quickly adjust their manufacturing to match orders and everything will go back to the usual 6+ month wait.

If you want a new fiberglass trailer right now with no waiting you better jump quick for this unusual time when ready to go units are available NOW!

[k0wtz]

Dave I live in Missouri sort of a crossroads for the delivery rigs. I used to see many huge 5th wheel rigs being towed not so many now. I too see the short jobs 3 on a trailer being towed.

While in Az I saw quite a few of the new Airstream rigs on the way west I guess.

As has been said times are a changing!

bob

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

If you drive interstate 80 and you drive Eastbound from Iowa to South Bend Indiana before you turn south to hook up with Highway 30, you will meet contract tow vehicles coming out of the Elkhart Indiana area. Over the past three or four years I have absolutely noticed a shift in the size of trailers being delivered to dealers. There are now a lot of dually pickups with a flatbed trailer hauling two or even three short stickie travel trailers. I’m still seeing a lot of big fifth wheel trailers but not near as many regular travel trailers in the 24 foot plus category. The frequency of “Retro” trailers has declined also. Granted, this is non scientific observation but like anything else, it’s not that hard to sense a trend and break into Dylan’s “Times are a changin”
Iowa Dave

[Cathy P.]

We see the small units going down US Hwy 50 and I-35 (toll road) in KS, 2 but usually 3 per truckload. This is another reason that getting some of the small molded fiberglass trailers more available will be a win.

One thing I noticed was one of the manufactures of stickies is getting way ahead of themselves, this may not end well as, frankly, I was considering one until I read the reviews on lack of quality and lack of support from the manufacturer. Most of the small stickies (basically entry level) will give a solid 4 to 5 years with several hiccups, but I am planning past that point.

[vin]

Originally Posted by trainman

When posters post and describing the complains are not mentioned in the post it's hard to see where the problem is. When someone said, the manufacture would not handle the complain, or even offer to deal with it I wonder just where the problem really might be. There are Lemon Laws out there and you have to go through the process that the manufacture and the law has setup for the process to start.

trainman

Some people have a comprehension problem. The post on 02/03 states in ARBITRATION which translates to lemon law being accepted or denied at the hearing but because the computer recorded nothing, no repair was attempted thus lemon law did not apply. Denied, but still under warranty.

[Jon in AZ]

My remarks about lemon laws were intended to be general rather than specific to your problem, and to return the conversation to RVs rather than motor vehicles.

In your post I do indeed have a comprehension problem. I have no idea what this means:

Originally Posted by vin

...4 times we went to the garage they said it ran too intent. In arbitration Ram corporate rep. said it ran to intent so no problem.

I understand the arbitration part, but “too intent”? If you still had the vehicle, my advice would be to post details on a RAM owner’s forum.

The truth is most of us have probably had at least one bad experience with a lemon: vehicle, RV, or something else. I do comprehend your pain and frustration. I once bought a brand new pickup that burned a quart of oil every 800-1000 miles. I thought that was excessive, but the manufacturer said it was within the normal range. Took a loss and traded for a different brand. Moved on.

The RV industry has far bigger problems with lemons. Molded fiberglass as a whole is better but not immune.

One issue is expectations. New motor vehicles overall have far better reliability than those of several decades ago, thanks to computerized design, robotic assembly, and electronic controls. First time RV buyers may expect the same level of reliability, but the manufacturing process is still done by humans, so reliability is more on the level of a 1950’s car. Remember when Consumer Reports used to count the number of defects in every test vehicle?

But even with realistic expectations, RVs have an unacceptably high defect rate.

I see change coming. Acres of unsold inventory, mostly larger trailers and motorhomes, point to a contraction as baby boomers age and exit the market. Smaller RVs will become more popular, and people will be more willing to pay for good design and quality work rather than square feet.

In short, more like molded fiberglass, which is well-positioned to weather the change.

[vin]

You made an excellent point about yesterday vs today. The public demanded better for the 2nd. largest purchase they would make in their lifetime. Humans were responsible for good or bad. Today computers are responsible but they to are a human product. Working to intent [their words] meant working as designed because the computer showed no error code. The human was removed and the computer was the final word. Case closed. As a whole everything is better today but computers are not infallible either. My original point was to look for a company that stands behind their product. Escape has been that for us and many others. They produce a quality product at a reasonable price. Unfortunately you get one that is a dud and that stings. Lil Snoozy for example, customers money gone and nothing to show for it but a receipt and a memory of what could have been.

[starling]

I am in the market for a small (13') trailer. I called both Casita and Scamp just last week and both had trailers on their lot for sale. The salesman said they were canceled orders and insisted that it was very unusual to have so many canceled orders so I better act fast as they will sell quick. Not buying, only collecting information at this point. All of the units at Casita were the 17' models, too big for my needs. I asked if they were going to bring the 13' (Patriot) model back into production....answer was, "don't know". I called Scamp twice to clarify their prices and both times I was told they had 13' models available for purchase TODAY. For some reason Scamp keeps telling me that their 13' standard model WITH toilet/shower is $12,995 when their price list clearly states that the base price WITHOUT toilet/shower is $12,995. Scamps prices went up $300-$500 from last year. Did this price increase deter buyers? They also said they are discussing a price increase for the 2021 model. I think at some point if they keep increasing prices they will run into a problem with attracting buyers. Also, if I would order a 13' Scamp today it would be ready for pick up the end of July. That is only 5 months out....much less than last year and the year before. I have also noticed quite a few FG trailers for sale, more than in the past few years. Most are Casita's but I have also noticed more Scamps. Hopefully the pendulum will swing in favor of the buyer soon, just like the housing market. In reference to the tiny stick trailers...that only last a couple of months, as long as they are under warranty, use and abuse it and then take it back. THAT is the mentality of the younger generation. They have no intention of keeping anything for any length of time, so buying an FG for an "inflated" price is not part of their thinking pattern.

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by starling

THAT is the mentality of the younger generation. They have no intention of keeping anything for any length of time, so buying an FG for an "inflated" price is not part of their thinking pattern.

Your "They have no intention of keeping any for any length of time" statement I agree is true.

Your statement about NOT buying for an "inflated" price I believe is NOT true.

Manufacturer's and seller's today in today's markets know for the younger generation it's all about instant gratification and the youngsters ARE willing to pay for it on a monthly basis. Automobile leasing is once again at the highest level in years. Why? Cheap interest rates make lease contracts once again profitable along with the younger generation wanting "Rent" vehicles rather than own vehicle. It's all about the style, convenience, image and payment for the younger generation.

The younger generation is what has driven the huge increase in smaller towable RV's sales the last 2 years. It's gotta be small to pull behind their leased vehicle. The fact that the younger generation may or may have not bought into the fiberglass trailer market has more to do with the limited availability (only sold direct to consumer & not at Camping World) and the 6+ month plus wait in the past more so than the price. Their is that instant gratification thing again!

It's the old Farts that are the BIG market for the fiberglass trailer manufacturers. Old farts got the money, they got the time and most importantly they are willing to WAIT for their purchase if need be!