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Old 07-18-2021, 05:52 AM   #21
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Name: Babs
Trailer: Casita
Tennessee
Posts: 48
Backwards

I will be the first to admit that I am not an expert! So.... before I disconnect, remove, replace, etc., anything, I take a picture of the as is with my cell phone and check the new installation against it.
(I have a folder and keep a photo of my license plates, Harvest Host Card, reservation info, and stuff like that for quick reference at check-in.)
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Old 07-18-2021, 05:59 AM   #22
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Name: Carl
Trailer: LiL Hauley
Syracuse, NY
Posts: 632
The 100 amp rating of the battery is just the maximum current the battery can handle and shouldn't be use to determine the wire size. The wire size is based on the load and the rating of the charger. The wire size is OK for your trailer, however you should get a LFP charger with a maximum charge current of 20 amps or less. You should also put a fuse on the terminal of the battery and size it for the wire gauge, in your case 20 amps.

For example, I used one of these but the smallest fuse is 30 amp, so you would have to find something different:
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...608450&sr=8-11

It is good to put a LFP battery inside the trailer to keep it warmer in cold weather because they should not be charged below freezing.
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:42 AM   #23
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Name: John
Trailer: Scamp 1995 19'
North Carolina
Posts: 288
Yes but(T)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlD View Post
The 100 amp rating of the battery is just the maximum current the battery can handle and shouldn't be use to determine the wire size.
The 100ah rating is indeed the maximum that the battery should be charged or discharged, and given that this is a 1995 scamp in the year 2021 it absolutely SHOULD be used to determine wire size.

As I thought I mentioned, my intent is to boondock with this with my daughter. In 2021 we now have modern electric cooking appliances and air conditioners which can draw large loads.

Quote:
The wire size is based on the load and the rating of the charger. The wire size is OK for your trailer, however you should get a LFP charger with a maximum charge current of 20 amps or less. You should also put a fuse on the terminal of the battery and size it for the wire gauge, in your case 20 amps.
In fact, the charger is already a 45 amp unit so there is that. It was in the Scamp when I purchased it. It is the same Progressive Dynamics unit that ships in the modern scamp 19'. So the wiring is already undersized for current reality.

Second, the wiring probably is (supposed to be) based on the charger used, however the right way to build an electrical system is to:

1) Determine what you will use the system for
2) Calculate the watts used for every appliance you intend to use
3) Decide how long you may be off grid or without sun
4) Spec a battery system to handle that watts rating for that number of hours
5) Build a battery system of required size
6) Select a battery charger that will eventually charge the battery system
7) Select a wire size between the AC Charger and the batteries to match or preferrably exceed charger's current
8) Determine how many solar panels of what size you intend to use while boon docking. More than you think you need.
9) Determine the total amps at full sunlight the panels will generate
10) Select one or more PV charge controllers that will handle the current provided by the panels
11) Select a wire gauge between said controllers and the battery system to handle THAT load
12) Select an AC Inverter to handle the largest appliance you will be plugging in
13) Mount that as close to the batteries as possible, then select the wire gauge required for the inverter.
14) More DC wiring as required for the other actually very reasonable DC loads.

None of which is done in the scamp original wiring.

The original wiring is based on a hand full of lights and a couple of pump / fans. That is fine given THEIR normal intended usage but that may or may not be what anyone else intends to do, certainly not my intended usage.

Quote:
For example, I used one of these but the smallest fuse is 30 amp, so you would have to find something different:
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...608450&sr=8-11

It is good to put a LFP battery inside the trailer to keep it warmer in cold weather because they should not be charged below freezing.
Yes, inside is good. Plus it gets it closer to the high current action.
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:59 AM   #24
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Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 5,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby123 View Post
As I thought I mentioned, my intent is to boondock with this with my daughter. In 2021 we now have modern electric cooking appliances and air conditioners which can draw large loads.
Well you didn't mention any of that in this thread. Maybe in a different thread. And this thread is all over the place anyway.. no continuity (pun intended).
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby123 View Post
the right way to build an electrical system is to:
.
.
.
Yes it sounds like you have a good grasp on things.. if one assumes that you are only changing the battery and not the loads or charging current then likely no changes to the wiring is needed. But now that we know you want be off shore power and use 120 VAC cooking appliances, A/C, and be able to rapid charge the LiFePO battery (which is one of the big advantages of a LiFePO), then you are correct that many changes and upgrades are called for - perhaps a 100% rewire.
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Old 07-18-2021, 08:16 AM   #25
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Name: John
Trailer: 1979 Boler 1700
Michigan
Posts: 1,963
Registry
May also need another battery or more depending on loads. I wound up with an odd number, three, because initially Costco was selling discounted single batteries periodically (lion energy ut1300), then they switched to only selling two-packs. I only really wanted two
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Old 07-18-2021, 08:32 AM   #26
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Name: Pat
Trailer: Scamp 19
Enchanted Mountains of Western New York State on the Amish Trail in Cattaraugus County!
Posts: 292
[QUOTE=Bob Penn;819121]

.......I was told that I may discharge a lithium battery down to minus 4F.....I was also told about the 32F low limit for charging......[Quote]
but with Battleborn's built- in BMS (Battery Management System) you don't need to worry about it. They take care of themselves.
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Old 07-18-2021, 08:33 AM   #27
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Name: Bob
Trailer: Casita - 2019 SD17
Idaho
Posts: 149
Relocating batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby123 View Post
I'm thinking about just abandoning the current battery location, moving the battery inside (somewhere). The charger, oddly is under the drivers side rear bench seat in the rear dinette. AC comes in the other side. Weird if you ask me.
I don't have a 19' Scamp. My Casita battery compartment was too small for my new Lithium batteries. The battery compartment is located similarly to your converter. I converted the battery compartment into an external storage area and installed the new batteries in the driver side wheel well compartment inside the trailer. This worked well. I feel the new batteries are better protected there and with less stress from external environmental conditions. I.e. Very hot sun or very cold winter.

I hope you figure it all out. Best wishes to you on your project.
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Old 07-18-2021, 08:48 AM   #28
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Name: Bob
Trailer: Casita - 2019 SD17
Idaho
Posts: 149
Battleborn batteries

[QUOTE=parmm;819899][QUOTE=Bob Penn;819121]

.......I was told that I may discharge a lithium battery down to minus 4F.....I was also told about the 32F low limit for charging......
Quote:
but with Battleborn's built- in BMS (Battery Management System) you don't need to worry about it. They take care of themselves.
I acquired my Lithium batteries from Costco when they had a significant price reduction on them. They are not Battleborn batteries.

As you stated, the built in computer or BMS on each battery does ensure the safety of the battery. I am sure that most serious Lithium battery manufacturers have similar safety features on their batteries.

Battleborn appears the be at the top of list of these manufacturers.

Regardless, in my opinion, it does not hurt to be cognizant of the operating limitations of your battery, regardless of the type or manufacturer.
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Old 07-18-2021, 09:03 AM   #29
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Name: John
Trailer: Scamp 1995 19'
North Carolina
Posts: 288
Lol this thread is all over.

Seriously though, any time a lead acid is replaced with liFePo you better look at everything because the batteries are completely different. The voltage will stay up, the current will stay up and so very high watts becomes real.

It is not uncommon for a manufacturer to build for a lead acid with 60 ah. Now Joe Owner drops in a 360 ah LiFePo because... and a 2kw inverter... Because... , drops an induction stove top in and wonders where the magic smoke is coming from
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Old 07-18-2021, 10:24 AM   #30
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Name: John
Trailer: Scamp 1995 19'
North Carolina
Posts: 288
I have four "easy" places to put the batteries, and eventually I will probably have several.

1) under the front bunk fiberglass seat. This has the advantage of being large volume and out of the way. But it is hard to work in.
2) in the cabinet left as you come in the door. Probably where it will end up. Largeish open cabinet with large interior door. Above the window ac in the bottom of the cab.
3) I don't have the wet bath so there is a huge closet.
4) under the right rear dinette seat. The battery charger is there now. The most difficult place to deal with.
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Old 07-18-2021, 11:57 AM   #31
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Name: John
Trailer: Scamp 1995 19'
North Carolina
Posts: 288
Sadly not so

[QUOTE=Bob Penn;819901][QUOTE=parmm;819899]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Penn View Post

.......I was told that I may discharge a lithium battery down to minus 4F.....I was also told about the 32F low limit for charging......

As you stated, the built in computer or BMS on each battery does ensure the safety of the battery. I am sure that most serious Lithium battery manufacturers have similar safety features on their batteries.
Sadly there are many manufacturers now, many of which are just getting up tp speed so their products are ... less than Battle Born who really is a top notch manufacturer.

I have watched a ton of Will Prowse YouTube videos where he actually opens up various batteries. I chose Ampere Time which is also Chin's. I watched a tear down of both and they are identical inside. And... neither handles low temperature charging cutoff. From my research, for whatever reason, not handling the low temperature charge part is quite common. But I am aware of this and will handle it somewhere else. In every other way these Chins's seem to be well made and they are half the cost of the Battle Born.

My intention is still to build my own battery ordering parts out of China but that is a time consuming process. I have three years to retirement but I want something to use until I drive into the sunset, so 100 ah AmpereTime it is.

Doing a DIY really opens things up for us poor folk. I can build a 280ah with quality prismatic cells and a good bms for the neighborhood of $600. Which is my intention. Plus it allows me to hand select the BMS, the solar charger and the inverter to match my intentions.
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