Below zero Scamping

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Jallen

What do you do about all the condensation and eventually frost that collects on the inside of the windows and other cold surfaces? I hate not being able to see out and never really seem to get the inside dried out.

What kinds of temperature and weather conditions are we talking about and for how long? How many people/pets? How do you heat the unit? Do you cook or use an inside bathroom? On- or off-grid? I assume we're talking about your 16' Scamp?

Lots of variables affect how well a particular set-up works in cold weather, and there are different kinds of cold weather. No single hull design with minimally insulated walls, single pane windows, and exposed plumbing is going to work very well for very long.

Condensation and frost on windows is inevitable whenever you have a warm, moist environment inside and a cold environment outside. The best solution that preserves the view is double pane windows. Since that is not practical in most small molded trailers, all other solutions are work-arounds that block the views to some extent.

Basic principles include:
(1) Limit the sources of indoor water vapor (human/pet respiration, unvented combustion of carbon fuels, cooking, washing, wet clothes/towels)
(2) Maintain ventilation. That includes allowing air to flow within the cabin- inside cabinets, under mattresses- as well as inside/outside air exchange.
(3) Remove humidity (electric dehumidifiers, chemical desiccants).
(4) Prevent warm, moist air from contacting any cold surfaces (cover windows and other through-hull fittings, even exposed rivets).

When all the above continue to be a losing battle, hitch up and drive to AZ. Throw open the windows, let the sun in, and dry it all out thoroughly!

[lisantica]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

When all the above continue to be a losing battle, hitch up and drive to AZ. Throw open the windows, let the sun in, and dry it all out thoroughly!

That's what I did a couple of weeks ago! Catalina State Park

[EricAllyn]

Awesome! I wish I was ready to go! Just finished a stretch of below zero weather, and won't get above freezing for another week or two. The last part of getting everything ready is outside, so not in a big hurry right now.

[Jon in AZ]

Nice, Lisa! In your case, coming from inland SoCal, I doubt you need to come to AZ just to dry out...

We have plans to be at Lost Dutchman during the spring bloom later this year. Meantime, we're trying to get out from "under the weather" in the other sense. The cold/flu/pneumonia season has hit us hard this year. A few days outdoors in the desert would probably dry me out along with the trailer, but at the moment I don't even have the strength to pack.

[lisantica]

Originally Posted by EricAllyn

Awesome! I wish I was ready to go! Just finished a stretch of below zero weather, and won't get above freezing for another week or two. The last part of getting everything ready is outside, so not in a big hurry right now.

I was just watching the news and your weather is unbelievable, stay safe and warm.

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Nice, Lisa! In your case, coming from inland SoCal, I doubt you need to come to AZ just to dry out...

We have plans to be at Lost Dutchman during the spring bloom later this year. Meantime, we're trying to get out from "under the weather" in the other sense. The cold/flu/pneumonia season has hit us hard this year. A few days outdoors in the desert would probably dry me out along with the trailer, but at the moment I don't even have the strength to pack.

This season the flu is bad, I've stayed away from it so far, but people all around me in public places sound very congested.
Hope you get back to feeling your old...er young self soon!

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by EricAllyn

Awesome! I wish I was ready to go! Just finished a stretch of below zero weather, and won't get above freezing for another week or two. The last part of getting everything ready is outside, so not in a big hurry right now.

Have you tried Dixon Springs SP in Southern Illinois.
We have camped there in late Feb , March and early April
Small park with a very nice staff but if you go this time of the year the swimming pool is closed .
They are supposed to have temps in the upper 40's in the next 2 weeks , a sign of Spring ?

[EricAllyn]

If I can get it warm enough to bolt the camper on, and finish screwing on the fan, we are hoping to get south a little to try it out.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by EricAllyn

If I can get it warm enough to bolt the camper on, and finish screwing on the fan, we are hoping to get south a little to try it out.

The last time we hooked up our trailer to head South in the Winter it was 27 below F. My wife and I debated whether we should start our journey south or go back in the cabin and crank up the wood stove.
Hopefully by April 1st , the weather will improve so we all can resume camping .

[DougOlson]

Last winter after Quartzsite we went to New Orleans & back to CA in Scamp 16. Had some nights with temps to 20F and the propane regulator would freeze & propane stop. Then no stove, furnace, etc.

[ZachO]

That's really interesting. I've been in temps quite a bit lower than that and been able to use propane.

Do they use different propane in warm-weather areas? I feel like I've heard there are different types depending on the area...but I'm not sure.

[k0wtz]

I have to wonder now too?

bob

[EricAllyn]

I don't know if they use different kinds, but I have heard that propane varies, both in the BTU and the moisture amount. Not sure if that it true or not.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by k0wtz

Floyd did you double your panels?

thanks

bob

No I didn't. I have plenty of heat but unprotected windows just CASCADE cold and the reflextix works pretty well. Double might be even better but probably not twice as good.

[Marty Smiltneek]

I found this information.

http://www.loveyourrv.com/tips-trick...weather-rving/

It does not talk about special propane but the vapor pressure of propane causes the tank to deliver less of the tank volume for use. The propane is liquid at pressure and needs to "vaporize" in order to pass through the regulator. That being said there is a slightly lower volume of vapor produced and at a lower rate. I use a 16,000 BTU Suburban furnace in my boler but notice about 8 to 9 pounds of liquid beginning to be the end of good reliable gas vapor delivery -10 deg. F. I am also thinking about a spray foam insulation on the bottom and floor after I build a new frame this winter season. Vapor control is a must!

[awinterchild]

Im a winter Scamper too! Did you do any interior/exterior modifications for winter comfort?

[floyd]

Originally Posted by ZachO

That's really interesting. I've been in temps quite a bit lower than that and been able to use propane.

Do they use different propane in warm-weather areas? I feel like I've heard there are different types depending on the area...but I'm not sure.

Propane is commonly referred to as C3 (C3H8) it is standardized and often has an odorant added for detection.
While it is blended in cold conditions with RBOB gasoline for winter grade,I have always understood it to be a defined basic product itself, not varied by blending.
Same is true of Butane C4 (C4H10)

My source is just occasional conversations with the oil movements blend crews in the refinery over the years.
Both are a gas at normal ambient pressure and temperature with a very low vapor point.

I think Marty's observations are essentially correct as it relates to extreme cold and pressure drop.

[jeffc]

We own a Bigfoot RV and can camp down to minus 20* in full comfort as all our tanks are heated. Bigfoot RV used to make the fibreglass shells for the little egg trailer Boler. There are a few little Bigfoot egg trailers out there too, I don't know if their tanks are heated or not, as they might not have been built to Bigfoot standards.
Propane is often mixed with butane in the southern states, butane has a low vapour point and is not suitable for any cold weather camping. We are from Canada and we always make sure that we use up all our propane that we have purchased down south before we are heading to colder climates. If you are going to camp in below freezing conditions only purchase your propane from an outlet that experiences cold conditions. Most outlets don't have have any idea of what they are selling so you may be buying a butane mix thinking that you are purchasing propane. Your propane system should work at temperatures far below what you should be camping in.
We love to camp year round, often in below freezing conditions. It is nice to be able to have a shower and use your toilet and sinks without having to worry about anything freezing. However, saying that you should also have the necessary tools (air compressor etc) to be able to blow out your water tanks in the event that you run out of propane, or your furnace has issues. If you do camp below freezing, remember that you will consume a lot more propane then you think you will. Ensure your tanks are full and carry a spare and even consider hooking up an extra tank when parked with an extend a stay.


Jeff & Trish Bigfoot's 40MH32 & 10.6

[Mike_L]

Dry camping only