Best place to get hitch installed? - Page 5 - Fiberglass RV
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-25-2013, 01:23 AM   #81
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
To clarify....

The LR4 is rated for towing 7700 lbs with a tongue weight 500.

Without question towing that amount of weight, with a 500lb tongue weight, "without" a WDH is foolish and dangerous. Now this is a Land Rover and perhaps the manufacturer assumes the driver is towing on a dirt road in Africa doing 10MPH.

.
I get what the tug was rated for but the trailer in question was per the owners post "Our trailer is 4,500 lbs with a tongue weight of 500 lbs. So again I ask why would the seller of the trailer make him buy a WDH if the manufacture was clear on not wanting them used on their tugs? and apparently based on the outcome of using it they had a pretty good reason for it.
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 01:34 AM   #82
Senior Member
 
Glenn Baglo's Avatar
 
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
I get what the tug was rated for but the trailer in question was per the owners post "Our trailer is 4,500 lbs with a tongue weight of 500 lbs. So again I ask why would the seller of the trailer make him buy a WDH if the manufacture was clear on not wanting them used on their tugs? and apparently based on the outcome of using it they had a pretty good reason for it.
Maybe the trailer dealer should have referred him to "trailer weights in the real world"?
As I've indicated previously, I wouldn't rely on anything the owner said as being accurate or informed. Still don't understand how his hitch receiver could come off the vehicle yet the chains work and how he could re-attach it several times on the way to the dealer. The story, as I read it, doesn't make sense.
Glenn Baglo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 01:56 AM   #83
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo View Post
Further to my failure to understand what really happened, the chains from my tow are attached to the hitch receiver, so if the hitch receiver came off the vehicle "several times", how did the chains prevent the trailer from taking off?
Reading the link and the posts that followed the first one, I suspect it was actually the draw bar that came off not the hitch receiver itself . The L4 has an interesting draw bar that Landrover calls a quick release - and from the follow up post it apparently takes a hitch shop that knows what they are doing with the Landrover to set up a WDH to work correctly and apparently safely. Perhaps the one he had installed was not and was hitting something on the draw bar causing it to release. That of course is total speculation and just reading between the lines on my part, so actually have no idea as to why or how it would cause it to release.

Here is a photo fromm Landrover.com L4 Accessories.

There are some other photos of what looks like a different draw bar again and hitch at Landrover.com Discovery 4 accessories .
Attached Thumbnails
l4 quick release tow bar.jpg  
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 02:16 AM   #84
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
To clarify....

Mr. T from Can Am explains the situation as he is aware of the manufacturer's short comings and writes about the proper solution as he has experience with the Land Rovers.

The point is you cannot trust the manufacturers numbers in all cases. Off shore vehicle builders don't understand WDH's and send their vehicles into the North American market with a smoke and mirror hue.

.

ok so I went back and read Mr. T 's post and I have to say I am really surprised by his and your comments about the manufactures hitch set up considering that it is built and installed in Europe. Kind of funny considering that we hear here over and over from yourself and CanAm supports here that the European hitches are the way to go thus the need for CanAm to put on a custom hitch ...... now we hear that a vehicle that comes from Europe with a European style hitch on it that's used all over Europe without the need for a WDH and probable towing heavier trailers or at least thats what we keep hearing here, apparently isnt any good for towing here, seriously?

Sorry but this is starting to sound a lot like lets spin it anyway we can to get the tug owner to spend a lot of money putting a different hitch on their vehicle.
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 08:50 AM   #85
Senior Member
 
Francesca Knowles's Avatar
 
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
To clarify....

The LR4 is rated for towing 7700 lbs with a tongue weight 500.

Without question towing that amount of weight, with a 500lb tongue weight, "without" a WDH is foolish and dangerous.
Now this is a Land Rover and perhaps the manufacturer assumes the driver is towing on a dirt road in Africa doing 10MPH.

The dealer installs the WDH. The action of the WDH causes the receiver to come loose and disconnects from the vehicle.

The manufacturer sends the owner a different manual???

Mr. T from Can Am explains the situation as he is aware of the manufacturer's short comings and writes about the proper solution as he has experience with the Land Rovers.

The point is you cannot trust the manufacturers numbers in all cases. Off shore vehicle builders don't understand WDH's and send their vehicles into the North American market with a smoke and mirror hue.

Buyer's beware.
Buyers beware, indeed, but of the trailer/hitch sellers that promote equipment for rigs whose limitations are either misunderstood or simply ignored by them. It's bad enough that consumers misunderstand the meaning of their own vehicles' weight "limits" without salesmen of add-ons taking advantage of their confusion!

Just as with speed limits, the total weight "towable" is an upper limit, and adjustments must be made for conditions, which conditions must include limitations imposed by the trailer type being towed. Vehicle manufacturers would do everyone a favor if they'd clearly state in manuals that there's a difference between camptrailers and boats.

Many people will read LR's above numbers as either false or misleading when in fact they are neither.

The upper trailer weight limit expressed above is just that- an upper limit- and perfectly doable using the lower tongue weight limit so long as the towed unit is a boat trailer. This is the much more common tow, especially among vehicles of this type, and boats are typically/safely towed with a tongue weight ratio about half that needed for the more unstable camptrailer.



Francesca
__________________
.................................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
Francesca Knowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 08:53 AM   #86
MC1
Senior Member
 
MC1's Avatar
 
Name: Wayne
Trailer: Airstream Sold, Nest Fan
Ontario
Posts: 2,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Reading the link and the posts that followed the first one, I suspect it was actually the draw bar that came off not the hitch receiver itself . The L4 has an interesting draw bar that Landrover calls a quick release - and from the follow up post it apparently takes a hitch shop that knows what they are doing with the Landrover to set up a WDH to work correctly and apparently safely. Perhaps the one he had installed was not and was hitting something on the draw bar causing it to release. That of course is total speculation and just reading between the lines on my part, so actually have no idea as to why or how it would cause it to release.

Here is a photo fromm Landrover.com L4 Accessories.

There are some other photos of what looks like a different draw bar again and hitch at Landrover.com Discovery 4 accessories .
I agree with you Carol. This is my understanding as well. Thnxs for the pic. It all helps.
MC1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 10:49 AM   #87
Senior Member
 
Trailer:
Posts: 787
This looks like a nice clash between towing cultures - Land Rover make vehicles that are very highly-regarded for towing, at least in Britain, and they probably think the world should adapt to them, not the other way around.

500lb hitch weight on 7700lb trailer is almost generous by European standards, even if it is low by US standards - indeed LR only allow a 310lb hitch weight in Europe for the same maximum trailer weight.
Andrew Gibbens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:45 AM   #88
Junior Member
 
Name: wally
Trailer: starcraft & shopping
Ontario
Posts: 1
Check Can-Am RV in London On .The owner is probably the most knowageable person available . Have used them twice for toyota van &am very happy with results.

wally
WallyS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:49 AM   #89
Senior Member
 
Francesca Knowles's Avatar
 
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
Registry


...............
Francesca Knowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 12:03 PM   #90
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
Registry
[QUOTE=Andrew Gibbens;364895]This looks like a nice clash between towing cultures - Land Rover make vehicles that are very highly-regarded for towing, /QUOTE]

Suspect some in the UK would suggest thats a bit of an understatement!

Hard to pass a farm in the UK that doesn't have a Land Rover or two in the yard. Attend any horse related event in the UK and it quickly starts to look like a Land Rover meet due to shear number of them pulling the horses trailers.
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 12:53 PM   #91
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Posts: 5,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
The LR4 is rated for towing 7700 lbs with a tongue weight 500.

Without question towing that amount of weight, with a 500lb tongue weight, "without" a WDH is foolish and dangerous.
Are you claiming to speak for everyone here, or is this an opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
Now this is a Land Rover and perhaps the manufacturer assumes the driver is towing on a dirt road in Africa doing 10MPH.
... or anywhere in Europe, the home of Land Rover. I doubt there are many LR4s on dirt roads in Africa.

There was apparently a communication problem in this case, which doesn't seem to involve the same type of tug as the original poster is equipping, or a trailer which is lightweight. It would be interesting if any objective information were provided, but the relevance seems shaky to me.

Of course, one might conclude that it's a bad idea to buy a Land Rover for reliable towing following typical North American practices, but that's what I would have guessed anyway.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 01:10 PM   #92
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Posts: 5,002
The hitch wasn't showing up for me in those links to Land Rover accessories (maybe due to my browser or location), but one minute of Google searching yielded this page: Land Rover Trailer Tow Hitch Receiver, Quick Release, Fits LR3, LR4, RR Sport. It is far from authoritative, but it shows the removable part which goes into the Land Rover towbar socket. In Europe it would presumably end in a towball (as shown in the photo in Carol's post, making it a removable gooseneck) or a mounting plate for a flange-style towball; here, it has this receiver box so common North American ball mounts can be used.

It appears that the problem was that someone bought this and did not know how to use it. I have just discovered that Land Rover openly offers their manuals online so I'll have a look. In the mean time I'm still struggling to understand how this is relevant, or how there is even a problem for Land Rover owners towing Airstreams, assuming they are bright enough to learn how to use the stuff they buy... but maybe that's just me.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 06:05 PM   #93
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Posts: 5,002
The Land Rover documentation website (TOPIx) requires registration, but you don't need to own a Land Rover (or pay anything) to use it. I registered and read the towing section of the 2012 LR4 manual, so I guess I'm now the resident expert

The manual is generally clear and concise, although it uses one European term ("overrun" brakes). It does not say that WD can be used... but it doesn't say it can't - WD is not mentioned at all. Specific ball mount dimensions (length from pin hole to ball, mount rise) are given, with an illustration of a weight-carrying ball mount. To the Airstream dealer, I think that this should have immediately raised a red flag and caused a query to Land Rover. Of course, this assumes that anyone would be diligent enough to read the manual.

Now, what vehicle were we supposed to be talking about, and what did my signature line say again... ?
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 06:20 PM   #94
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Posts: 5,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
The dealer installs the WDH. The action of the WDH causes the receiver to come loose and disconnects from the vehicle.

The manufacturer sends the owner a different manual???
Yes, the Airstream dealer (yes, like Can Am RV, but not them; perhaps Airstream of Western Pennsylvania) installs the WDH. The action of the WDH causes the receiver to come loose and disconnects from the vehicle.
The tow vehicle manufacturer (Land Rover) sends the owner a different manual, presumably clarifying that the WDH never should have been used.

This makes sense to me.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 06:32 PM   #95
Senior Member
 
Francesca Knowles's Avatar
 
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
Registry
Where oh where has the O.P. gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dylemma View Post
I will need to install a hitch on my new tow vehicle, 2013 Outback.I have no interest in DIY. Any suggestions in the Toronto area? I will also cross the border if the price and service warrant.
Good news, O.P. Dave!

We've decided that you should immediately get rid of the Outback and buy the Landrover discussed upthread along with the Airstream Trailer it was towing before the hitch fell off or whatever it was that happened to it.

The Landrover is at the Dealer's waiting for parts such as the trailer, which has not yet been found.

Well, not all of it, anyway...

Hope this helps!

Francesca
__________________
.................................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
Francesca Knowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 06:37 PM   #96
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Posts: 5,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo View Post
... the chains from my tow are attached to the hitch receiver, so if the hitch receiver came off the vehicle "several times", how did the chains prevent the trailer from taking off?
As others have already mentioned, the part "falling off" is the removable insert - essentially part of the ball mount. As with conventional North American receivers and ball mounts, the Land Rover's safety chain loops are on the fixed receiver/towbar portion, exactly for this reason.

In the drawing in the owners manual, the Thule hitch on the Land Rover appears to have a safety chain loop on the fixed hardware above and behind the socket for the removable part.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Installed new LEDs Raz Modifications, Alterations and Updates 18 11-17-2011 09:43 PM
5th wheel hitch to hitch pull jackstrr Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 9 07-19-2011 04:19 PM
HELP! At trailer hitch place, what size ball do I need? joy mccalla Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 5 01-18-2010 09:48 PM
Hitch Aid / Bumper Guard Behind Hitch Ball? Parker Buckley Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 12 01-27-2008 04:05 PM
factory installed AC Candi Woods Care and Feeding of Molded Fiberglass Trailers 4 08-25-2006 01:03 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.